New M30 turbo option in the works!

[s_ribbens]

Just going through the rough, initial planning phase right now. My shop will do the install but it will be a joint venture with another local shop (which will do all the fab work and be developing the manifold). This project won't get started until this winter most likely but I wanted to see what options people would be interested in seeing. I am waiting to pick up a second motor to rebuild and use for fab work as well as attaining enough funds to do this properly.

The manifold will most likely be a tubular design for a single turbo (though, dual could be a possibility if there is interest). It will definitely be intercooled and have the option of a boost controller and multiple tuning maps.

My personal goal is to run low boost for street with 300-350 whp and have a moderate-high boost setting available for the occasional fun runs.

I will keep everyone updated when this gets underway, but for the time being, please add your commentary in. This will get developed into a retail kit so your input will help everyone get a product they want. Too many of the current offerings are past their time and out-dated.

It will be interesting to balance this project with my race car build.

[Robin-535im]

Options/suggestions...

I think a knock off of the Alpina setup would really put you guys head & shoulder above the rest. Bi-turbo with an optional piston / rod set to go with it, or use it on the stock (9.5 ?) compression. If there was a kit that looked like it was an alpina setup w/o the brand name, I'd buy it.

Stock-looking looks are great too, IMHO. Some of the kits make the engine bay look like Dr. Frakenstein was the mechanic.

Good chip / ECU is important too, obviously. If you could get away with using the existing motronic but swapping out some sensors and programming, all the better.

Last, and most important, dyno your tests! Multiple times, so we know it's not a statistical fluke.

[s_ribbens]

I guess I should rephrase the question then. Do you care what turbo style is mounted to it etc? Obviously it needs to be well sorted out.

[genphreak]

Options/suggestions...

I think a knock off of the Alpina setup would really put you guys head & shoulder above the rest. Bi-turbo with an optional piston / rod set to go with it, or use it on the stock (9.5 ?) compression. If there was a kit that looked like it was an alpina setup w/o the brand name, I'd buy it.

Stock-looking looks are great too, IMHO. Some of the kits make the engine bay look like Dr. Frakenstein was the mechanic.

Good chip / ECU is important too, obviously. If you could get away with using the existing motronic but swapping out some sensors and programming, all the better.

Last, and most important, dyno your tests! Multiple times, so we know it's not a statistical fluke.
I couldn't have put it better. But given that Motronic is waaay out of date and uses that damned AFM, does not include knock sensor, 4 wire lambda (these are a must if you want to use stock compression and in any way raise output to any real extent) and are commercially a good idea so people who don't have the funds to rebuild their stock motors can leave it 9.5:1; buy the kit and possibly blow up the engine up (or just go easy on it) before they opt to do a full rebuild).

I would suggest you make absolute sure these goodies are included and also do it with a Megasquirt (or commercial equivalent but cheap) ECU that offers the owner the ability to tweak and monitor combustion on the fly using a laptop pc or digital displays.

If you do this, you will be using really up to date, proven and yet still economical methods as most of the work has been done but just not brought together on an M30. One thing you should consider is publishing the lot properly, for free. It will benefit many others and as most M30 owners are not rich like e39/e46 owners you will not lose sales rather I would expect you to sell more components- especially those that people have trouble making themselves.

But importantly I'd leave what they buy from me up to them- if they want to make their own good on 'em. Yours just needs to be the best and easy to buy :)

Defiantely Alpina-esque, make the manifold look real nice, make sure manifold intake goes in via the left side, option of oil canister relocation as per the sweet BMWe34.net kit, intercooler included and defiantely single turbo for cost reasons. Definately a full Motronic delete.

I'd buy this so long as I can have the hard-to-get and lighter parts shipped in a box with instructions and a parts list supplied prior online so I can make sure I get the heavy stuff like the turbo (plus have the choice of what type left to me) and piping locally and not have to chase round for stuff on the week of the install!)

Very interested... :) Nick

[s_ribbens]

Stock compression is 9.0 to 1 on the stock motor. I haven't decided how much money I can and want to put into the motor build. Initially I am planning on simply refreshing everything with new, stock pieces. From all of my research, the stock motor is more than enough to handle a good amount of boost. ARP head studs are a definite though.

Everything WILL be pretty! The shop that will do the fab work is soley a fab/product development shop. Their first piece looks far better than any production piece I've seen so expect appearances and quality to be top-notch.

It will almost certainly be a single turbo set-up. I have no interest in putting that much money into this nor the added power of a bi-turbo set-up. Intercooler is certainly part of this. I can't imagine doing it without one.

ECU is the biggest item up in the air right now. I'm a bit wary of using a stand-alone for drive-ability reasons. This is my daily driver and I really prefer to keep my race car for fun rather than DD usage. Reliability is VERY important with this project. A piggy-back set-up is being thought through right now.

What power output would you guys like to see?

[Jon K]

The thing is, you will not be making 350 hp on "low boost" unless your low boost is around 15 psi or so. Andrew, a guy nearby, just built his 3.6L M30 with forged everything runing Tec3R standalone a 60-1 turbo and made 400 on high boost...

Why re-invent the wheel? TCD makes a manifold for the M30 that is both strong and conveniently priced. You will see very little if any gain with tubular manifold. If you made an equal length manifold it'd be better but now you're talking about much more money - the average "I have a friend who welds" price on equal lengths are froim $1100 - $2000 alone. Why bother trying to do something like that when TCD already makes a good cast manifold?

I know it doesn't sound too hard in the preliminary thought process but a lot of stuff gets reconsidered when you start bolting things up. I know that during my build (well, two if you count my previous custom supercharger setup) I made many revisions to my original plan that made sense on paper but ended up not being an option. M30 will need oil filter relocated, etc etc. Lots of stuff will seem so simple and then when you go to put it in the car its like "wow the turbo intake pipe hits the motor mount".

Like I said, if I were you and had an M30 which already has numerous manifolds available, I'd simply buy one of those and mate any T3 flanged turbo I wanted to it. Forget biturbo - its worthless unless you want a car that drives like a stock VW 1.8T motor. Sure, two small turbos eliminate any lag but it also means you need two intakes, two exhausts, to flanges, two oil feeds, two drains... get the picture? Additionally, you'd be very hard pressed to get 350whp from a biturbo setup built for "drivability". If you want horsepower, the only way to get there is with a lot of air moving. Andrew is using a T3 or T4 60-1 turbo and is peaking it out - the turbo is at the end of its efficiency. If I had 3.5L and shallow pockets I'd get a Holset H1C - if I had 3.5L and deep pockets I'd get a GT42R. Either way, if you want to hit your 350whp on low boost figure, that's what it's going to take. Also, I know it sounds straight forward saying "it will also be intercooled" but believe you me, there is nothing more pain in the ass than trying to fit an air to air intercooler on an E34 - again, trust me I know.

It's not like you can't be creative - but if there were manifolds for the M50 available under the $1k price I'd do it that way - there isn't a good one available, however.

Just to give you insight on what else you need I will summarize what I've put together:

-SS Stainless manifold bottom mount location
-Custom stainless up pipe to top mount turbo
-42# injectors (originally bought 30#)
-16x11x3.5" front mounted IC (had to delete AC)
-Tial 38mm Wastegate with 8.7 psi spring
-Tial 50mm BOV w/ V-band clamps
-3" custom exhaust
-oil lines and fittings ($)
-Mandrel bent 2.5" plumbing
-Mandrel bent 1.5" plumbing for wastegate atmosphere dump
-Holset H1E Turbocharger (500+ hp capable)
-MegaSquirt standalone ECU built for M50 on GM coil pack wasted spark
-GM coil packs
-Custom MSD ignition wires
-KnockSenseMS to supply knock sensing for my M50 non vanos
-4 Bar map sensor for MS
-Innovate LC-1 Wideband Oxygen Sensor (completely necessary)
-Bunches of silicone couplers, 90 degree, straight, etc
-Tons and tons of time.

I won't add it all up but thats close to $4,000 spent... ontop of the money I spent on my previous supercharger setup :( and I do all the labor.. imagine what a shop is going to charge.

There's also a commonly accepted fact of the M30 cooling system being prone to failure. With a turbocharged motor and engine temps getting even hotter, that's one more thing to worry about. I'd be replacing that stock gasket with a MLS gasket and doing all new water pump and t-stat. Lots of little things you have to consider. Once you've got the car mechanically built, then you get the joy of tuning it.

[Jon K]

Stock compression is 9.0 to 1 on the stock motor. I haven't decided how much money I can and want to put into the motor build. Initially I am planning on simply refreshing everything with new, stock pieces. From all of my research, the stock motor is more than enough to handle a good amount of boost. ARP head studs are a definite though.

Everything WILL be pretty! The shop that will do the fab work is soley a fab/product development shop. Their first piece looks far better than any production piece I've seen so expect appearances and quality to be top-notch.

It will almost certainly be a single turbo set-up. I have no interest in putting that much money into this nor the added power of a bi-turbo set-up. Intercooler is certainly part of this. I can't imagine doing it without one.

ECU is the biggest item up in the air right now. I'm a bit wary of using a stand-alone for drive-ability reasons. This is my daily driver and I really prefer to keep my race car for fun rather than DD usage. Reliability is VERY important with this project. A piggy-back set-up is being thought through right now.

What power output would you guys like to see?


Thats a very odd way of building a car - asking people what they want to see? I don't really think anyone truly cares - Forget a piggyback system. You talk of drivability and the word piggyback in that statement is like Bob Dole playing professional sports. You either need to chip tune it, which is expensive and the only one who does it is TCD but thats with Marks help. That requires you keep your AFM so you can forget about blowing off. Or, you go standalone... either way you are not going to make "big" power by half-assing the ECU.

Still - this is a bit of a confusing thread because you're asking us what we want to see... but... its not our car. As mentioned earlier, avoid biturbo becuase its a pain, not because it adds power - its no better than a single turbo when it comes to power.

[genphreak]

The split second PSC-0001 is the go if piggybacking and can run the map sensor to delete the AFM. Not soooo simple still, but the turbo will upset the motronic's figures when the mp goes positive. Better to go Megasquirt relaibility is not a problem, availability and price. ANd it does everything you (or others) will want.

RTE head studs are the go.

Check this page, it is one of the best write-ups (http://www.islandia.is/smu/structure/645csi_project.htm) I know of for factory spec stuff done well. Of course searching this forum will yield plenty of good oil on the subject.

This is an example of what kind of manifold (http://www.vsmotor.no/) we might just **all** want to buy... You see why we need choice with regards to the setups we use?
http://www.vsmotor.no/img/m5motor5.jpghttp://www.vsmotor.no/img/m5motor4.jpghttp://www.vsmotor.no/img/m5motor2.jpghttp://www.vsmotor.no/img/m5motor6.jpg
The turbo Vidar specifies in his is just way too small for most...

[Jon K]

I dunno guys, there are options available for you... the TCD cast manifold makes great power and is mass produced, but time someone comes up with a tubular manifold and produces it forget cost being reasonable. VS manifolds fetch over $2,000 in the states.

[genphreak]

I dunno guys, there are options available for you... the TCD cast manifold makes great power and is mass produced, but time someone comes up with a tubular manifold and produces it forget cost being reasonable. VS manifolds fetch over $2,000 in the states.That other scandinavian one form a little while back was the biggest damn manifold I've ever seen in a car. That was filthy.

Here's a 'dirty' way to do the M30 (http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2152662).

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/2152000-2152999/2152662_34.jpg

Dirty cos the turbo is big, the job was cheap. So cheap it was home made but still produced heaps of output. And dirty cos it was on the wrong side.... gotta love it though, next best thing to making your car wings...

And it's Megasquirt.... sweeeet!

Have you seen this/heard of this one before Jon? Familiar turbo?

[genphreak]

Here's a good way to market your kit online (http://home.mindspring.com/%7Escrappycrow/e28gaugepanel.html).

http://home.mindspring.com/%7Escrappycrow/_uimages/E28_gauges_14_driverview.jpg

ie
Let some do it the hard way and let others pay you to do it the right way.

[Jon K]

Have you seen this/heard of this one before Jon? Familiar turbo?

Yep Holset HX-35, thats the one smaller than mine.

Pics of mine for scale:

http://www.blowneuroz.com/newmotor/mani5.jpg

:)

[genphreak]

Far out brussel-sprout, that snail is so big it might just blow the whole engine off the manifold.

Beware thy stud strengths...

Damn thing will be awesome. I just hope you don't give it too much boost Jon. I will settle for a smaller one when I do it.

Will be F U N

[Jon K]

Far out brussel-sprout, that snail is so big it might just blow the whole engine off the manifold.

Beware thy stud strengths...

Damn thing will be awesome. I just hope you don't give it too much boost Jon.


As long as theres fuel with the boost, everyone is happy.


When i crank the boost up my motor will be 8.3 or 8.5:1

[genphreak]

I haven't made any plans yet, but I am leaning towards a small (T5-size) turbo to get say 8lb max boost (on occasion) and perhaps 6lb on the street. Do you reckon I can avoid pulling the engine down and replacing the pistons etc (my motor is in excellent shape) and even putting in a stronger headgasket if I keep the boost low and setup some reliable good knock control? It sounds like a tall ask but that is what I'd like to do. Much more will make a 540 driveline the way to go...

But I don't like my chances of avoiding doing the bottom end. Any idea what boost the old 745i ran? I think the compression was 8 or 8.5:1
Cheers, :) Nick

[Jon K]

I haven't made any plans yet, but I am leaning towards a small (T5-size) turbo to get say 8lb max boost (on occasion) and perhaps 6lb on the street. Do you reckon I can avoid pulling the engine down and replacing the pistons etc (my motor is in excellent shape) and even putting in a stronger headgasket if I keep the boost low and setup some reliable good knock control? It sounds like a tall ask but that is what I'd like to do. Much more will make a 540 driveline the way to go...

But I don't like my chances of avoiding doing the bottom end. Any idea what boost the old 745i ran? I think the compression was 8 or 8.5:1
Cheers, :) Nick


What is a T5 turbo? And 8 psi is weak sauce... you wouldnt even notice the difference between 6 and 8 psi. An M30 at 9:1 compression can prob handle 10 psi daily...

[genphreak]

What is a T5 turbo? And 8 psi is weak sauce... you wouldnt even notice the difference between 6 and 8 psi. An M30 at 9:1 compression can prob handle 10 psi daily...T5=Garrett (http://turbotech.com.au/garrett.htm)T5 (small turbo)- they are common on 3.0L Holden's here so are cheap. But they are old models, not like a modern one.

The idea is it (whatever it will end up being) will fit down at the front there on the slanted M30 nice and close to the intercooler.

10 PSI sounds good! With 9:1 it should maintain economy too... the more I think about it the more it sounds like a very reasonable mod to make... maybe I need a Holset HX20, 25 or 27 (http://turbotech.com.au/holset2.htm). Hmm maybe I can fit 2!!

[s_ribbens]

If you read the initial post, you'll see that I am using my car to develop a turbo kit for the M30. If I was simply building this for myself I couldn't care less what anyone thought. It only makes sense to ask what everyone would like to see since this shop will develop it into a retail item. Along with this, keep in mind that I have much more resources available than just "a friend who welds." All this shop does is develop products.

Also, as I mentioned, I am not interested in a bi-turbo. I simply mentioned that it was a possibility if there was intersted.

Thanks for your input though Jon.

[Bill R.]

pistons, it also had forged pistons and a forged crankshaft along with knock sensors and a special dme with a ping control module.





I haven't made any plans yet, but I am leaning towards a small (T5-size) turbo to get say 8lb max boost (on occasion) and perhaps 6lb on the street. Do you reckon I can avoid pulling the engine down and replacing the pistons etc (my motor is in excellent shape) and even putting in a stronger headgasket if I keep the boost low and setup some reliable good knock control? It sounds like a tall ask but that is what I'd like to do. Much more will make a 540 driveline the way to go...

But I don't like my chances of avoiding doing the bottom end. Any idea what boost the old 745i ran? I think the compression was 8 or 8.5:1
Cheers, :) Nick

[genphreak]

pistons, it also had forged pistons and a forged crankshaft along with knock sensors and a special dme with a ping control module.eughhh. I was neatly forgetting that... maybe I have to stick with my 6-8lb... :(

[Jon K]

T5=Garrett (http://turbotech.com.au/garrett.htm)T5 (small turbo)- they are common on 3.0L Holden's here so are cheap. But they are old models, not like a modern one.

The idea is it (whatever it will end up being) will fit down at the front there on the slanted M30 nice and close to the intercooler.

10 PSI sounds good! With 9:1 it should maintain economy too... the more I think about it the more it sounds like a very reasonable mod to make... maybe I need a Holset HX20, 25 or 27 (http://turbotech.com.au/holset2.htm). Hmm maybe I can fit 2!!


I think you mean Garrett T25... there's no T5 that I can think of... and the sizing is T3 houising (medium) T4 housing (larger). You have 3.5L of motor... you should go with at LEAST an HX-35. Mine is comparible but slightly larger than an HX-40.

[angrypancake]

twin garrett t25 was run by a this company, i think their name was Alpina or something, with some car called like a..... b10 something, b10 bi turbo? yeah that sounds right :)

[Jon K]

Yeah and um, a T25 is also what comes on a Mitsubishi Eclipse 2.0L. Its small... very small... for any aftermarket setup.

[s_ribbens]

Update:

Moving along quicker than I expected. I just picked up an extra M30 motor today and we will be bringing it to the shop at some point this week. Tubular manifold fabbing will begin shortly after! I'll be sitting down with the shop owner to discuss engine control options at some point.

I don't expect this to be done until the end of winter or possibly spring since there is a lot of development and testing that will be going into everything. I will keep eveyone updated as we progress though!

[Kalevera]

Frankly, I think that, as a business venture, you'd have much better success in developing a forced induction kit for a more recent engine/model. Such cars, and their owners, would likely be more receptive to such an idea and would be a more profitable prospect. There are a couple of explicit reasons for this, which I think Jon intimated.

Although the M30 has a number of characteristics that lend it an advantage over other NA motors, turboing it with the expectation of longevity is an expensive proposition (see Jon's list). Furthermore, to do it correctly, the motor should be built.

There are two types of people who still drive M30 powered cars: hobbyists and those who operate them out of necessity. Hobbyists are the market, and the reality of it is that the large majority of them have unrealistic expectations, no money, and lots of talk (reminisce on mister 1200rwhp). The few remaining crazies who have the means and interest to force induce an M30, and I'd suggest that the majority of them who speak english contribute to this forum, aren't interested in having someone else sell them a prefabbed kit. There's a good reason why cartech, dinan (hah), the big boys stopped selling these parts, and everything else, for the E34: no way to make a buck.

So, if you're building the car for yourself, that's great. Just make sure you're doing it for the right reasons, and not because it seems like a moneymaking proposition.

best, whit

[Jon K]

I have come to understand much like lowell has pointed out that there is perhaps 5% of the parts on an E34 where profit could be made by developing something. Those 5% are already accounted for read urethane bushings, brunos plates, transmission mounts, short shifters, etc. For everything else, the users desire varies so greatly that you cannot create an item to suit all. You say you want to release a kit that offers 300 hp - well how does that differ from TCD? What would your kit provide me that TCD's kit does not? I assure you TCD has one of the best tuners available (You know who you are :) ) and for you to make up for that you'd have to do it in price (not likely as you don't have any parts already manufactured) or in service and power... again, you don't want to blow peoples cars up. So really its kind of monopolized in that sense - the sad thing is TCD isn't even that large of a company! The AA, ICS, Dinan, and ESS of the tuning world cominate and now VF-Engineering introduced a kit. Its exactly the same as Dinan in statistics except its $4,500 for a full supercharger kit WITH tuning from Garrett (GIAC!) whereas RMS, Dinan, AA, ESS all start at about $5,900. But even STILL people are hesitant because they aren't familiar with VF - I know of them because they are a huge name in the VW scene, but still.. the bmw crowd is not always receptive.

[genphreak]

I completely agree with Jon and Whit on the points they make. I made a similar point to Mark D some time ago about the price of the M30 chips he sells that are the best upgrade value for money you can get for this car.

The point was that the disposable income of the average M30 owner is now **much** lower than the average (any other) BMW owner (excepting perhaps E12s and E28s) and therefore any product aimed at them needs to be priced very competitively indeed.

However an M30 powered car is (from an engineering and installation point of view) a very easy car to improve through the application of new technologies.

From an owners point of view, if you get all the pluses of dumping an outdated (and probably worn-out) EFI in the process it is a no-brainer to do as you make the money back through savings in fuel very fast.


Stage I (rebuild the short-motor) to stock 200BHP.
Stage II (replace the the ECU with Megasquirt (maybe an extra 15-20BHP over stock)
Stage III add a small turbo (with restrained boost), now you get around 300BHP.
Stage IV is to rebuild using Forged pistons, polish-job, M102 oiling and forged crank, etc. increase boost to reach 400BHP or more. Of course NOS- now the world is your oyster, but the rear end will badly need an upgrade too. I doubt that many will get to doing a turbo (but the crazies will definately) as the cost of Stage I and II is already more than the car is worth.

I reckon the way to make money marketing parts for these cars is not to do it thorugh a 'simple bolt on kit' type of approach, but to share the details on forums like these and make a few 'hard to get/make parts' well and sell them to those crazy enough to be along for the ride. Doing this will surpirse you how many will follow- unless you expect ovenight results.

The thing going for you in sucha conquest is that the M30 is soooo popular, and the e28 and E30 guys are shoe-horning them into their cars too.

UUC, Dinan, Bavarian Auto and premium aftermarket retailers out there (inc. Mark D) miss out on the more practical customers that are getting into the older cars who still want these niceties but aren't going to pay so much for them. Why they don't reduce the price on the old parts is strange- all the development cost is ammortised and now its a matter of supply. I'd be do ing it to ensure word-of-mouth, market share and brand-awareness is maximised.

I guess they make them in such small quantities they don't see it as worthwhile. But then again perhaps that is why few are selling their parts around the world to the wider market.

After all, you don't see many German guys discussing innovative mods with us (they can speak English remember), so obviously they have good sources too... ;) Nick

Does anyone know how many M30s were made? It'd have to be millions...

Until Megasquirt such options were only for the nutters with wallets. Now even nutters like me have a hope...

[s_ribbens]

Let me make this perfectly clear so I don't have to say this again.

I want to turbo my M30. A good friend of mine owns a local tuning shop that is begining BMW product development. Lucky for me. I give him my spare motor so they can build the manifold, etc. They are developing the product. They are putting the money into it. They will have their company name on it, not mine. I will do the install at my shop however.

I thought it might be a nice opportunity for one of the prominent E34 communities to add their input into this kit so I can pass it along. Your opinions have no relevance to what I do with my car since that is MY project.

[Jon K]

I thought it might be a nice opportunity for one of the prominent E34 communities to add their input into this kit so I can pass it along.


Ok...



Your opinions have no relevance to what I do with my car since that is MY project.


Wait what?

I don't get it you came on asking "yo guys what would YOU like to see happen here..." and started out asking us a silly question like "how much power do you want to see?" Then we reply saying what we've said and how it's silly to try and fab ANOTHER kit... and you tell us it doesn't matter its YOUR project....w....t.....f........... shrug.

[s_ribbens]

I'm not the one that's been confusing the two seperate topics here. I was making it definitive so that there isn't any confusion from here on out.

I'll add more after we have the project well underway or most likely when it's done. Until then...

[632 Regal]

Jon has a new friend, wonder how long this love affair will last...

[s_ribbens]

:p ;)

[Jon K]

So you started a thread talking about your personal turbo setup and the plans to produce one... oh ok.

[Kalevera]

Sorry Bill, the only real difference between the M102/106 and any production M30 is the pistons (and depending on the year, the existence of the piston skirt oilers). There are other minute differences in hardware and block design that probably have no effect on anything (no oil pump chain tensioner on the turbo engines), but Carl Nelson says the block and head are reinforced, so that's what I'm using, regardless of the fact that it necessitates fabricating an engine mount.

best, whit

[Kalevera]

And herein lies the reason why the forum has become boring.

The author of this thread solicited opinion. Both Jon and I offered responses that are completely congruent with the prompt. For whatever reason, the author interprets them as attacks on his person instead of offerings of constructive criticism based on REALITY. Consequentially, our intelligence and perspective are denigrated. This is ********, evident without mentioning the other logical inconsistencies in the author's messages.

One heuristic for catalyzing the learning process is to find a subject matter expert and observe or inquire. That's one reason for joining a forum like this (the existence of SMEs, however, is debatable). The other reason being that one's ego is so bent out of shape that he requires a positive response from an internet message board to validate his existence.

The people who founded this thing, built this thing, did so because it was a convenient way to share information. They didn't do it to give each other hand jobs. That's boring, and you're correct in stating that it's irrelevant and nobody cares.


best, whit

[saj3n]

:d

[Robin-535im]

They didn't do it to give each other hand jobs.

Now THAT would be a cool forum.

But not with other guys. I mean - I like you guys, I just don't "like you" like you.

[genphreak]

I reckon there are a heap of people who just come on to wank. Especially about turbos, lights, wheels and pictures. I'm over that too.

But a lot of people have a genuine interest in these things (at the time they make noise about it), so would not consider the amount of posts I see as wanking, as (from their POV) wanking. That's fair, each to their own. So we put up with it.

But I think things will get better as people are getting more adventurous with their cars. It is just that there are so many n00bs coming on the scene and since the only info that is point and click is on www.bmwe34.net

It's the only problem with 'search and reading' beofre posting a query we've all seen discussed ad-nauseum a dozen times before. Search and read works for me just fine but it seems not to quench the thirst of the impatient with instant gratification.

Perhaps we need to be contributing more of the fixes herein to BMWe34.net, and/or other site/s to help address this?

:) Nick

[rob101]

I reckon there are a heap of people who just come on to wank. Especially about turbos, lights, wheels and pictures. I'm over that too.

But a lot of people have a genuine interest in these things (at the time they make noise about it), so would not consider the amount of posts I see as wanking, as (from their POV) wanking. That's fair, each to their own. So we put up with it.

But I think things will get better as people are getting more adventurous with their cars. It is just that there are so many n00bs coming on the scene and since the only info that is point and click is on www.bmwe34.net

It's the only problem with 'search and reading' beofre posting a query we've all seen discussed ad-nauseum a dozen times before. Search and read works for me just fine but it seems not to quench the thirst of the impatient with instant gratification.

Perhaps we need to be contributing more of the fixes herein to BMWe34.net, and/or other site/s to help address this?

:) Nick
where did my clay bar go?

[aston_jag_tech]

All of you gouys with helpful links, and great knowledge, thank you.

-Scott

[535ise]

Just a thought but i hope you consider RHD car's when you decide where you are going to mount the turbo ?

[angrypancake]

They didn't do it to give each other hand jobs.



http://www.tshirthell.com/shirts/products/a685/a685.gif

tshirthell.com (http://www.tshirthell.com/store/product.php?productid=685)

[Jon K]

I am not going to **** on the parade but I don't see this every coming about LHD, RHD, FWD, or otherwise.

[genphreak]

where did my clay bar go?Someone stole it buddy... :)

Maybe it's even being passed around...

[Booster]

I think the heat is getting to some normally easy going heads...lol.:p
I'm just going to stick with a cheap-assed SS tube manifold off E-gay and reweld it for reinforcement...add a few braces as needed......bolt on a T3/T4 Garrett along with a Tial wastegate replumbed,and ride along with Jons pioneering with the Mega Squirt. And all of the other basic trimmings like....injector upgrades, headstuds,gasket upgrade and a stuffed Intercooler.
I wish you luck with your build and your shops help.Thats cool to be involved in ground floor works.
For the rest of us, however.......we'll just have to make our scabbed together kits work individually for our needs, I guess.
It just seems so difficult to get minds to timely work together on these things. Everyone is so off the ebb and flow to work it out.
My personal experiance in these matters is to simply "DO THE JOB" and work out all kinks prior to bringing up the subject. Then once ever ything is worked out......offer it up.:)
You'll have a greater working knowledge then.......and intellegent questions will follow....hopefully with intellegent answers.
Cheers and best of luck.............V'

[Jon K]

Truthfully, I think most people here will want to deviate far enough from a "default" layout to the point that a kit is silly. Its like the guys on Bimmerforums.com that buy a Technique Tuning Stage 1 turbo kit and rip it apart in 3 months adding larger turbo and custom tuning... why not just make it custom to begin with?