OT: its true you can get a toyota echo sideways

[rob101]

No i didn't even use the handbrake, some of you may remember my defying physics power oversteering of a 525i on 235s
now witness my greatest wet weather feat of stupidity. coming downhill to a 60 degrees ish turn, i felt that she was going to understeer into a parked car so i trail braked a little (no throttle only brake) and wooshga the backend comes out, luckily somehow i knew to release the brake and countersteer and i caught her (little snap back but nothing too bad). far out the rear end was vibrating like crazy, sounded like really really bad axle tramp.
that was frigging scary. and the scary thing was i wasn't going extremely fast either in hind sight i probably would have made it around the corner fine had i not trailbraked. i must admit without using the handbrake i thought it was pretty damned hard to get a FWD car to oversteer.

[Reckless_Kelly]

Using the brakes (any or all of them) places weight on the front end, providing greater grip (unless you stomp on them!!!), while removing weight from the rear end, thereby reducing grip. The Echo probably has about a 60/40 f/r weight bais sitting at a standstill, take some of that weight off of the rear tires and there is even more potential for swapping ends.

[rob101]

yeah it stops it from understeering most of the time which is what i am worried about when driving FWD car, as i said i was worried about that more than anything. we've always suspected they made the rear end a bit too firm as well.
i'd wager it'd be more like 70/30 weight distribution, i'd say the hill has something to do with it as well, as the only other time its happened to me i was going down hill, but it wasn't anywhere near as spectacular as last night.

[angrypancake]

oh hell, i'll go and put my dunce cap on. what's the dif between oversteer and understeer?

[winfred]

understeer is when the driver is scared and oversteer is when the passinger is scared, my favorite definetion :D over is when you drift out the back end


oh hell, i'll go and put my dunce cap on. what's the dif between oversteer and understeer?

[winfred]

usually happens off throttle when the weight transfers to the front end, i got a big jap car sideways avoiding a douchebag a while back, drop throttle oversteer is not that fun, never tried it in the king of dto cars though, the 911


i thought it was pretty damned hard to get a FWD car to oversteer.

[rob101]

usually happens off throttle when the weight transfers to the front end, i got a big jap car sideways avoiding a douchebag a while back, drop throttle oversteer is not that fun, never tried it in the king of dto cars though, the 911
the difference with this tick tack and a 911
is that i had a chance in hell of catching it after it went. yeah, but thats because the 911s natural tendency is to oversteer! well at least the real 911s (911-993). still the echo has a really short wheelbase and cheese cutter tyres so i was very lucky. i think most people would have stayed on the brakes but luckily i released them after she broke loose. its not like you are thinking you just kind of do what you're used to doing in that situation.
boy i think might go buy a lottery ticket :p

[NY535iManual]

Front wheel drive cars kind of scare me in general, and weight transfer only makes them worse. Ask me about the time in high school I almost killed my girlfriend and I while trying to trail brake down a wet exit ramp in her white VW cabriolet. She said she thought it was fun, but refused to ever let me drive that $hit box again. Sigh.

[Zeuk in Oz]

Added to your episode of getting your bimmer sideways the other day, what you are really trying to tell us Rob is that you are a crap driver ? :D

Or else that you need a chauffeur ! :D :D

[rob101]

Added to your episode of getting your bimmer sideways the other day, what you are really trying to tell us Rob is that you are a crap driver ? :D
in a word
yes
seriously though i am going to do some defensive driving courses. I've been intending to do some for a long time and i really do enjoy driving alot but i worry that without sharpening my skills the actions of the crazy and deranged friendly fellow drivers (read: psychos who are trying to kill me) i will become a statistic.

[Zeuk in Oz]

i am going to do some defensive driving courses.

BMW run some very good courses, in Brisbane as far as I know, so it might be worth while looking into it.

They use E90 (I think) 325i and E46 M3 cars so there is no wear & tear or insurance issues with your own car. Run by Jeff (sp?) Brabham.

My oldest son did one last year and absolutely loved it. Number 2 son will be doing the same course this year.

For more info, go to www.bmw.com.au and follow the directions to driver training.

Probably not the cheapest around but given that it uses their cars and not yours, you save a set of tyres.

Worth a thought perhaps ?

[rob101]

BMW run some very good courses, in Brisbane as far as I know, so it might be worth while looking into it.

They use E90 (I think) 325i and E46 M3 cars so there is no wear & tear or insurance issues with your own car. Run by Jeff (sp?) Brabham.

My oldest son did one last year and absolutely loved it. Number 2 son will be doing the same course this year.

For more info, go to www.bmw.com.au and follow the directions to driver training.

Probably not the cheapest around but given that it uses their cars and not yours, you save a set of tyres.

Worth a thought perhaps ?
yeah i just sent them an enquiry, the other alternative is Holden driver training 600 for a two day course i think bmw is 600 for the one day.... but 325i vs. berlina commonhore...... do i really need the extra day of torture?