Mufflers

[The Melmaan]

Hello Guys (or Ladies),,,,,,
Just wanted to find out if anybody ever ventured out to replace their factory muffler with an after market like :
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MUFFLER-OVAL-EXHAUST-OUTLET-TIP-BMW-3-5-7-SERIES-E46_W0QQitemZ180011193026QQihZ008QQcategoryZ33636Q QrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting
from Ebay.
Jusst want to know if this is foolish or will improve looks and performance?

[Alexlind123]

The oval is ugly, but i have thought about the stainless DTM mufflers. Stainless is a good thing, and their prices are cheap...bbut they are basically just glasspacks, the body may last forever but the fiberglass packing will wear out quickly. At least they look ok.

[hatched91]

i personally think that would look good. i also think it would give a ricey tone. probably not a deep, mellow sound. more like the raspy loud sound you often hear from cheap "rice cannons" or large blow through glass back style mufflers that you often see on the back of hondas.

[genphreak]

i personally think that would look good. i also think it would give a ricey tone. probably not a deep, mellow sound. more like the raspy loud sound you often hear from cheap "rice cannons" or large blow through glass back style mufflers that you often see on the back of hondas.Or being torn off them as they jounce over the speed-humps they were never 'modified'* to manage...

*my engineering term for 'cut 3 coils off with a k-mart grinder'

[BigKriss]

the muffler looks crap

[1995 525i]

Hello Guys (or Ladies),,,,,,
Just wanted to find out if anybody ever ventured out to replace their factory muffler with an after market like :
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MUFFLER-OVAL-EXHAUST-OUTLET-TIP-BMW-3-5-7-SERIES-E46_W0QQitemZ180011193026QQihZ008QQcategoryZ33636Q QrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting
from Ebay.
Jusst want to know if this is foolish or will improve looks and performance?

You'll get what you pay for. BE careful not to turn your car into a ricer, which in my opinion is what mufflers like these do. If you want try and improve performance, sound and maybe appearances go with the Bavarian Autosport tri-flo performance exhaust system.

Michael

[Ross]

It's a piece of crap, won't fit, will rot in a heartbeat if you do manage to install it and certainly will not do a thing to increase performance.
If you like the look thats your business.

[Montreal525]

Don't do what I did. Here's a pic of the set-up I put on in April. Finally back to stock form. My tech told me I cut exhaust volume in half, costing me performance and fuel economy because of too much back pressure. And it's true. Before, at 120 kph, engine was at 3200 rpm. Now, it's around 2800, cruise control on. And finally, it's quiet again.... no more droning and humming telling me to go postal..... It ain't a Honda or a damn lawn mower.... especially if you have automatic. Go for stock........

Jeff

[filip00]

don't buy that junk. rather go to an exhaust service where you can choose or make custom exhaust. now, you can choose if you just wanna change the tips, or you want different sound or sth.

i prefer silent exhaust

i modified mine, i used stock exhaust system, i just did custom tips, i told the guys what i wanted, and they did a great job.

check the attachments.

[bfd]

<i modified mine, i used stock exhaust system, i just did custom tips>

If you're using an OEM muffler, how do your "custom tips" differ from the factory chrome tips:

http://www.pacificbmw.com/new/parts/frame2.asp?prodid=167&modelid=15

[filip00]

your link doesn't work.
i used original aftermarket exhaust for bmw, but i ordered custom tips, the guy did the cutting and everything in front of me. factory tips don't come cut in crooked, and i think both tips are the same length, unless it's an m5.

[genphreak]

Don't do what I did. Here's a pic of the set-up I put on in April. Finally back to stock form. My tech told me I cut exhaust volume in half, costing me performance and fuel economy because of too much back pressure. And it's true. Before, at 120 kph, engine was at 3200 rpm. Now, it's around 2800, cruise control on. And finally, it's quiet again.... no more droning and humming telling me to go postal..... It ain't a Honda or a damn lawn mower.... especially if you have automatic. Go for stock........

JeffWhat was the thinking behind a single pipe? Surely two might have had a chance (of working out)... not that they would have improved anything. The noise must have been feverish (done either way)... Nick

[bfd]

your link doesn't work.
i used original aftermarket exhaust for bmw, but i ordered custom tips, the guy did the cutting and everything in front of me. factory tips don't come cut in crooked, and i think both tips are the same length, unless it's an m5.

Here's what the OE chrome tips look like:

http://www.pacificbmw.com/new/parts/enlarge.asp?prodname=Exhaust%20Trim&image3=a00016703.JPG

$15.86 each at Pacific BMW, p/n 82-11-9-401-504

or try this link:

http://www.pacificbmw.com/new/parts/frame2.asp?prodid=167&modelid=15

[Montreal525]

What was the thinking behind a single pipe? Surely two might have had a chance (of working out)... not that they would have improved anything. The noise must have been feverish (done either way)... Nick

That's the problem, I wasn't thinking.... I went to the shop after a night shift, I was tired of looking for exhaust options and my OEM muffler was gone so the guy told me "hey, we did a bimmer liker yours couple months ago like so and so..." I just said sure, whatever because it was cheaper than OEM... Bad mistake....

Nobody to blame but me... I'm no professionnal technician or mechanic but I'm not a rookie either... I should have seen this as a bad idea... This one's me, I was asleep at the wheel, so to speak...

Jeff

[genphreak]

That's the problem, I wasn't thinking.... I went to the shop after a night shift, I was tired of looking for exhaust options and my OEM muffler was gone so the guy told me "hey, we did a bimmer liker yours couple months ago like so and so..." I just said sure, whatever because it was cheaper than OEM... Bad mistake....

Nobody to blame but me... I'm no professionnal technician or mechanic but I'm not a rookie either... I should have seen this as a bad idea... This one's me, I was asleep at the wheel, so to speak...

JeffBad luck Jeff, I'm sorry to hear that. I had the same experience with an idiot shop here in Sydney- keen on a stainless setup after the old one rusted out, I thought it would improve things. All it has done is raise consumption with an un-engineered hope (and shop's promise) that it'd give more Wide Open Throttle power.

Maybe it does, and maybe it will last longer (I doubt it now) but the noise is not nice on the occupants, it vibrates nastily (stock resonator is the ONLY way to go) and doesn't fit right. I'm going to replace it with a stock system when I can find one.

The shop should refund us after doing such terrible work, but they turn into such terrible people after they have fleeced us with their (and our) ineptitude.

I'm glad you posted this, it highlights what I see regularly; I've seen enogh shitty exahust repalcements on BMWs in Oz to break a BMW engineer's heart. Its so unjustified when the stock parts are not hard to get and are cheap when compared to systems of a similar quality.
For the uninitated; the job an exhaust shop does often goes awry with unexpectedly poor welds, incorrect weld-wire, poor parts, breakages, reuse of rusty components and generally poor fitment when it comes to doing your car.

[Montreal525]

Bad luck Jeff, I'm sorry to hear that. I had the same experience with an idiot shop here in Sydney- keen on a stainless setup after the old one rusted out, I thought it would improve things. All it has done is raise consumption with an un-engineered hope (and shop's promise) that it'd give more Wide Open Throttle power.

Maybe it does, and maybe it will last longer (I doubt it now) but the noise is not nice on the occupants, it vibrates nastily (stock resonator is the ONLY way to go) and doesn't fit right. I'm going to replace it with a stock system when I can find one.

The shop should refund us after doing such terrible work, but they turn into such terrible people after they have fleeced us with their (and our) ineptitude.

I'm glad you posted this, it highlights what I see regularly; I've seen enogh shitty exahust repalcements on BMWs in Oz to break a BMW engineer's heart. Its so unjustified when the stock parts are not hard to get and are cheap when compared to systems of a similar quality.
For the uninitated; the job an exhaust shop does often goes awry with unexpectedly poor welds, incorrect weld-wire, poor parts, breakages, reuse of rusty components and generally poor fitment when it comes to doing your car.

Well, if my pain can help others :p

In the last 4 months, everyone that sat in my car asked me if I had a muffler problem and I was pulled over twice by the police.... So it was time...

I can't say nothing about the shop. The workmanship is excellent but it's design is useless... Goes to show that most people in the auto world don't know didley when it comes to engineering.... Except on Honda's...

Jeff

[genphreak]

Well, if my pain can help others :p

In the last 4 months, everyone that sat in my car asked me if I had a muffler problem and I was pulled over twice by the police.... So it was time...

I can't say nothing about the shop. The workmanship is excellent but it's design is useless... Goes to show that most people in the auto world don't know didley when it comes to engineering.... Except on Honda's...

JeffHeh, yes in my rant I forgot to mention poor design;

"For the uninitated; the job an exhaust shop does often goes awry with unexpectedly poor welds, poor design, incorrect weld-wire, poor parts, breakages, reuse of rusty components and generally poor fitment when it comes to doing your car.

:D. (I really do need to move on from the pain I still feel from my experience with HiTech Mufflers in Darlinghurst (http://www.hitechmufflers.com.au/), Sydney.

[TC535i]

Don't do what I did. Here's a pic of the set-up I put on in April. Finally back to stock form. My tech told me I cut exhaust volume in half, costing me performance and fuel economy because of too much back pressure. And it's true. Before, at 120 kph, engine was at 3200 rpm. Now, it's around 2800, cruise control on. And finally, it's quiet again.... no more droning and humming telling me to go postal..... It ain't a Honda or a damn lawn mower.... especially if you have automatic. Go for stock........

Jeff

So... care to give us the technical explanation on how you changed your gearing by swapping a new exhaust on, since your motor is turning a different RPM at the same speed? ;)

[pundit]

$21.88??? You must be kidding!!
A Campbells soup can would be just as good!

[Alexlind123]

So... care to give us the technical explanation on how you changed your gearing by swapping a new exhaust on, since your motor is turning a different RPM at the same speed? ;)

Heh, i was waiting for someone to ask that...

[filip00]

Here's what the OE chrome tips look like:

http://www.pacificbmw.com/new/parts/enlarge.asp?prodname=Exhaust%20Trim&image3=a00016703.JPG

$15.86 each at Pacific BMW, p/n 82-11-9-401-504

or try this link:

http://www.pacificbmw.com/new/parts/frame2.asp?prodid=167&modelid=15


oh cool, i never seen those, but to be honest, i like mine better. i got just what i wanted, it's similar to what you posted, but my tips are thinner, and the outter one is shorter than the inner one. if you look at the ///M exhaust, you can notice they have it that way (look at attach, compare tips lenghts. i was...well...trying to copy that, but still make it in a vintage e34 style. :D

[Ross]

Naw, not incorrect weld wire. I've actually watched them use the coat hangers from the uniform service at a Midas shop.

[genphreak]

Naw, not incorrect weld wire. I've actually watched them use the coat hangers from the uniform service at a Midas shop.:D LMAO and rope and string next time for when they run out of hangers...

[Montreal525]

So... care to give us the technical explanation on how you changed your gearing by swapping a new exhaust on, since your motor is turning a different RPM at the same speed? ;)

The way I understand it after talking to my tech is that is it has to do with the engine struggling to push out it's own exhaust gases. Like when you turn on the A/C, engine load increases, so does the RPM to keep it going. Now that the gases are not being funneled in a smaller volume, less effort is needed to expell them. All I can say is that it is a fact that at 120 kph, no A/C with the cruise on, rpm was just above the 3 on the tach. When I came back from the shop, same deal but now the needle is just under the 3, the way it was before I put that awful contraption on.

Engine speed can be affected by outside elements. An engine + gearing set-up is not a constant at a given speed. Take drafting. If you get behind a big truck on the highway, close enough to draft him, get on the other lane, set your cruise to match speed and then tuck yourself behind him. You'll see the engine speed decrease because there is less air resistance so the engine as to work less to keep up the speed even though the gearing is the same...

I'm talking about a maximun of 300-400 rpm, and that's taking into account the way our tachs are written, ie no markers for hundreds. It is not a lot, just significant enough to be noticed. you can always plug one of your tips and see, I'm sure you'll notice a difference.

BTW, I still have the set-up. it's been cut in half to fit in my trunk but could easely be welded up. Any takers.... :p

Jeff

[Ross]

Boy has this one made a drift.
Engine speed vs. road speed are in FIXED relation. Only clutch(or tire) slippage or torque converter losses will allow a variance. Neither of these are effected by a muffler or a/c, perhaps in a draft the converter would have less slippage because of the reduced load but the ones in our cars lock up at speed.

[TC535i]

Boy has this one made a drift.
Engine speed vs. road speed are in FIXED relation. Only clutch(or tire) slippage or torque converter losses will allow a variance. Neither of these are effected by a muffler or a/c, perhaps in a draft the converter would have less slippage because of the reduced load but the ones in our cars lock up at speed.

I would say a little slip here or there, but several hundred rpm in the 10% range... that's a lot of slip at those speeds/rpm's. Makes no sense in a manual car, seems sketchy in an auto. I don't care if you took 2 spark plugs out, RPM's is RPM's, gearing is gearing. Everything hooked up, the engine should turn the same RPM to turn the flywheel the same RPM to turn the transmission the same RPM to the diff to the wheels...

[Montreal525]

I don't know what more to tell you. I had no idea this would create such a contreversy... It is what it is on my car. That exhaust set-up was bad and compromised engine performance. Stock exhaust brought it back to normal, simple as that.

As for drafting, try it, you'll see.... Did it on my dad's e28 and e34 back in the days and in mine too... As soon as you start to draft, the car will pick up speed because of the decreased air resistance and then the cruise control will compensate, decreasing engine speed to maintain the set speed. I'm not talking a drop of 1000 rpm but enough to notice it....

Jeff

[Ross]

Right, there is a mechanical (or fluid) coupling. The cruise control means nothing. If one comes up to draft a truck chances are you SLOWED DOWN to avoid hitting it in the rear.

[Alexlind123]

Thats impossible, as long as your TC is locked up (which it should be when cruising) your engine speed and road speed have a constant relation to one another within a gear. This CAN NOT vary, its just simple physics.