::.. Sunoco 94 vs Everyone Else 91

[Qube]

::.. Sunoco 94 vs Everyone Else 91

M30, sharked. Run usually Petro Canada 91 because I have the CitiMC to save sc per litre. Yeah, with such a large tank, it adds up! Anyway... has anyone switched from 91 to 94 and noticed an appreciable difference? Given the price is not just the difference but an additional 2c (plus PetroPoints) per litre, I'm hesitant to try it out... for now. I get enough quickie Ultra Washes and other junk using their points so there is added value. Again unless it's an appreciable difference (perhaps in rev climb, or smoothing), then I won't bother thinking about it again.

[BillionPa]

well, if its "upgraded" with ethanol to get the higher octane, dont use it.

[Qube]

This is interesting... though dated...
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/predawn/F93/sunoco.htm


Sun Company, Inc., and its subsidiary, Sun Refining and
Marketing Company, both of Philadelphia, have agreed to settle
Federal Trade Commission charges that they claimed Sunoco high-
octane Ultra 93.5 and Ultra 94 gasolines are superior to other
gasolines in providing engine power and acceleration, but did not
have a reasonable basis to back up these representations. The
proposed settlement agreement would prohibit any future unsub-
stantiated engine-performance claims for Sunoco gasolines.
According to the FTC's complaint, issued simultaneously with
the proposed consent agreement to settle the charges, advertise-
ments for Ultra 93.5 and 94 gasolines made the following state-
ments:
-- No other gasoline can give your car better acceleration.
Because no other gasoline has 94 octane; and
-- Because no other gasoline has 94 octane - the highest
octane under the sun....Don't waste your time going anywhere
else. Come to Sunoco and fill up with Ultra 94 - for
maximum power and performance.


Anyway, I'd believe Ultra 94 contains MBTE and oxygenated fuel. Wonder if that still holds true. Maybe I'll just run 91 at Petro and mix in some Toluene instead ;)

[saj3n]

I used to run BP's 91 octane, switch to Sunoco's 94 octane. The car did feel smoother on idle, and a bit more acceleration. IMHO though, its hard to compare before and after effects based on just switching gas (as far as acceleration goes). I feel as if its hard to distinguish actual performance gain vs. placebo effect...

[BillionPa]

remember, unless the car is tuned for higher octane, it will actually have the same or less power, not more. i guess sunco didnt get that memo.

[KenB]

Sunoco stopped selling 94 Octane around here in NJ 2 months ago. I never thought the extra 10 cents for 1 point of octane was worth even trying.
I use 93 usually and occaisionally 91, I notice quicker starts with 93 and maybe a bit smoother running.

I still won't buy anything from Mobil-Exxon so around here it's Sunoco, Citgo, Shell, Getty and a few new ones I have no idea who they are.

[Jon K]

Using a higher octane fuel than what is required by manufacturer will gain you guys NOTHING. High octane fuel doesn't add power, it more or less takes away heat and less likely to detonate due to higher burn point. If the car is tuned for 91, 93 wont do anything more for ya. Same with 94. You can run race gas if you want, it'll just smell funny.

[SharkmanBMW]

I always used sunoco 94 in my jetta vr6 - tuned with chip, bored throttle body, intake... it was better, but temperature and humidity also played a huge role in my area, stinky hot days, the car is a dog!

No more sunoco in quebec, it is top notch fuel though.
Not like the ******** petro can 94.

[KenB]

Using a higher octane fuel than what is required by manufacturer will gain you guys NOTHING. High octane fuel doesn't add power, it more or less takes away heat and less likely to detonate due to higher burn point. If the car is tuned for 91, 93 wont do anything more for ya. Same with 94. You can run race gas if you want, it'll just smell funny.

You are correct, I use 91 as required, have tried 93 with NO appreciable gains.
(transposed my numbers)

[Qube]

Given the compression ratio, I'd reckon the m30 in 535i would optimize at about 92-93ish being sharked.

[Airborne001]

Sunoco has one good thing going for it though, they do not buy Arab oil, all of their holdings come from S.A.

[Wyn]

I think peoples butt dynos need to be re-calibrated.

[RiggsyB]

It always amazes me that you guys in the US get such weak petrol all the time!

Ok, we over here in the UK pay through the nose for it compared to you guys, but to us, 95 Octane is weak, and we can regularly get our hands on 97 or 98 Octane fuel... Just as well really, as my Ducati 748SP motorbike isn't happy unless it's running on at least 97, as it's such a high compression engine and the ECU is only mapped for 97 or higher!

In France they sell 99 Octane fuel at various petrol stations!

[Jon K]

It always amazes me that you guys in the US get such weak petrol all the time!

Ok, we over here in the UK pay through the nose for it compared to you guys, but to us, 95 Octane is weak, and we can regularly get our hands on 97 or 98 Octane fuel... Just as well really, as my Ducati 748SP motorbike isn't happy unless it's running on at least 97, as it's such a high compression engine and the ECU is only mapped for 97 or higher!

In France they sell 99 Octane fuel at various petrol stations!

Actually you're the one with weak gas. Your system uses RON, while we use OCTANE. Your 95 RON is our 87 OCTANE. And much like your 98 RON is our 93 OCTANE. We have 94 octane which i am not sure you guys even get, and more over, we have 100, 103, 104 octane racing fuels, C16, etc... Our 87 is not low, its the same as your 95. Europe decided they wanted to make people think they were getting something special for their $8/liter ;)

[Qube]

Actually you're the one with weak gas. Your system uses RON, while we use OCTANE. Your 95 RON is our 87 OCTANE. And much like your 98 RON is our 93 OCTANE. We have 94 octane which i am not sure you guys even get, and more over, we have 100, 103, 104 octane racing fuels, C16, etc... Our 87 is not low, its the same as your 95. Europe decided they wanted to make people think they were getting something special for their $8/liter ;)

Damn it JonK, you beat me to the punch :)

[KenB]

The gas is the same, the numbers are derived from different methods of measurement.

Gasoline pumps typically post octane numbers as an average of two different values. You may see the octane rating quoted as (R+M)/2.

One value is the research octane number (RON), which is determined with a test engine running at a low speed of 600 rpm. The other value is the motor octane number (MON), which is determined with a test engine running at a higher speed of 900 rpm. If, for example, a gasoline has an RON of 98 and a MON of 90, then the posted octane number would be the average of the two values or 94.