Bosch Platinums- How well they hold up...

[genphreak]

Hey all,

Here they are, finally, pics of my platinums (EDIT: Sorry people, I was wrong, these are not platinums, they are "Super 4s" which are (apparently) not available in the US).

This set have done 12,000miles and two oil changes. As you can see I haven't tightened the front ones enough (1-3) as some oil has blown by (not too much I guess)- as evidenced by the slightly stained heatshields (above the exhaust manifolds). I tend to go for less rather than more- since so many people strip alluminum threads: This time I'll use my torque wrench to do them up...

I'd love to hear comments on what you all think of them. Whit and other well-known experienced members have given platinums a bad rapp in the past, which I was unaware of when I got these plugs. They were all I could get the day we bolted my new head up, and they were on sale at 20% off so I plumped up the extra cash.

I don't have any complaints about the way it runs, but then again, I have never driven a new 535... :(

What do you guys think of how these plugs are looking?
I'm a bit worried about #4 and perhaps 6...

BTW; The anodes (ends) are a bit chamfered (rounded) out of the box. These are actually Platinum Super-4s; they are still branded Platinum but are a 4-cathode plug unlike some of the earlier 2-cathode platinum branded plugs.
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l164/genphreak/WR78PlugEnds.jpg
These are the front gaskets; (from the left, cylinders 3,2 & 1)
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l164/genphreak/12000MileM30B35HeadFront.jpg
And the rear ones... (from the left, cylinders 6,5 & 4)
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l164/genphreak/12000MileM30B35HeadRear.jpg
I guess its time I got in there and cleaned her up a bit!

Many thanks in advance, Nick

[genphreak]

These are how Super 4s look out of the box;
http://www.bosch.com/content/language2/img_productworlds/PW_Carparts_keyvis_540x363_en.jpg
They say they last 30,000km (about 20,000 miles) so mine are supposed to be halfway gone. :(

Aww these plugs are not cheap!

[Gayle]

I remember Platniums getting a bad rap here, but I don't remember why. My car had them when I bought it. When I got the service 2 done in December, the indy was not not keen on them and replaced them with something else. Please refresh my memory. What is the supposed problem with them?

[Bill R.]

Bosch Australian catalogues the wr78 is not a platinum plug....
They looked pretty weird to me from your pics, and we don't get any platinum 4 electrodes bosch that look like that so i looked them up in the US catalogue and nope, nothing that looks like that, so then i went to the Oz catalogue and sure enough there was a pic of them, so then i went to the numerical listings and sure enough no wr78 are a platinum plug. Here's a link to the Bosch Oz pdf file on them (http://www.bosch.com.au/content/language1/downloads/SparkPlug05_06Catcover.pdf)






Hey all,

Here they are, finally, pics of my platinums after 12,000miles and two oil changes. As you can see I haven't tightened the front ones enough (1-3) as some oil has blown by (not too much I guess)- as evidenced by the slightly stained heatshields (above the exhaust manifolds). I tend to go for less rather than more- since so many people strip alluminum threads: This time I'll use my torque wrench to do them up...

I'd love to hear comments on what you all think of them. Whit and other well-known experienced members have given platinums a bad rapp in the past, which I was unaware of when I got these plugs. They were all I could get the day we bolted my new head up, and they were on sale at 20% off so I plumped up the extra cash.

I don't have any complaints about the way it runs, but then again, I have never driven a new 535... :(

What do you guys think of how these plugs are looking?
I'm a bit worried about #4 and perhaps 6...

BTW; The anodes (ends) are a bit chamfered (rounded) out of the box. These are actually Platinum Super-4s; they are still branded Platinum but are a 4-cathode plug unlike some of the earlier 2-cathode platinum branded plugs.
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l164/genphreak/WR78PlugEnds.jpg
These are the front gaskets; (from the left, cylinders 3,2 & 1)
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l164/genphreak/12000MileM30B35HeadFront.jpg
And the rear ones... (from the left, cylinders 6,5 & 4)
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l164/genphreak/12000MileM30B35HeadRear.jpg
I guess its time I got in there and cleaned her up a bit!

Many thanks in advance, Nick

[Bill R.]

application for e34 535




Bosch Australian catalogues the wr78 is not a platinum plug....
They looked pretty weird to me from your pics, and we don't get any platinum 4 electrodes bosch that look like that so i looked them up in the US catalogue and nope, nothing that looks like that, so then i went to the Oz catalogue and sure enough there was a pic of them, so then i went to the numerical listings and sure enough no wr78 are a platinum plug. Here's a link to the Bosch Oz pdf file on them (http://www.bosch.com.au/content/language1/downloads/SparkPlug05_06Catcover.pdf)

[bigmuthatrucker]

I use NGK plat's they use more platinium that anyone in the biz this adds up to a better spark and better longetivity..
jim

[winfred]

those super 4's look kinda cool, they have a actual center electrode instead of the almost non exsitant center of the platinum

[joshua43214]

I have been one of the vocaly critical people of bosch platinums here.

As BillR stated, those do not appear to be platinums, maybe a parts guru here can set me straight, but the appear to be one of the plated versions.

The electrode on Bosch platinums is miniscule, The NGK electrode is often 2 or 3 times the size of the bosch one. Also, Bosch is in my experience, the worst of the aftermarket OE manufacturers. Their stuff that is not OE stamped is often of much lower quality. Furthermore, when it comes to plugs, changing the tip style can be risky, aside from the dangers of pistons hitting the electrode, switching from tips with 1 or 2 grounds to 4 can often result in reduced fuel economy and performance.

I worked with a guy once who had a late model RWD Impala, and he spent over a year cycling plugs through his engine to compare them to each other. He was an autocross instructor and kept meticulouse records of fuel consumption as well as notes on "felt" performance. The end result was what we expected, the OE AC plugs did the best closely followed by NGK. Splitfires where by far the worst, then Bosch platinums. Bosch coppers fell in the middle with Champions. The moral of the story is, the OE plug will always run right, there may be improvements, but they will take research to find, and most substitutes are the about the same or worse.

My experience over many years of seeing horrible running problems and premature failure of bosch platinums has led to me be the following conclusions;

Never use a Bosch platinum on a car that came OE with copper.
If Bosch was the OE for platinum, only buy the ones with the OE stamp.
Never use a different tip than OE.
If one feels a driving need to "upgrade" to platinum, use only NGK as a replacement.

[genphreak]

People, thanks for your insights. Yes I am (now) confused over the 'Platinum' designation. It was on the blister pack the complete pack of 4 came in- with 2 supplied loose. I might even still have it so will dig around to find... thing is it looks like they do do platinums in 4-electrode too... again US availability is different to Aussie, I just found this on their US website (http://www.boschautoparts.com/Products/SparkPlugs/Platinum4). I wonder if they packaged mine wrong as they are indeed definately not platinums!

BTW; This is the list of plugs Bosch (NA) specifies for an M30B35;

4478 PLATINUM+4 Do not gap. Gap is not adjustable.
7509 SUPER WR8LC GAP=0.028"
6234 PLATINUM GAP=0.028"
4306 PLATINUM 2 Do not gap. Gap is not adjustable.

In Oz we only get to choose the 7509 (WR8LC) or a different plug, the WR78 (Super4) which this post is all about.

Hey Robert B... Do you think that 5 choices (on top of dealer supplied plugs) is really enough choice for us?

Regardless of such conjecture, it really irks me how these companies go about marketing parts brands in the aftermarket, always inferring vast improvements over stock parts (but never providing empirical evidence- or even doing half-appropriate tests for anyone to really know or demonstrate anything) about the claims they make actually helping in a particular application.

Making general statements about the virtues of a new technology when promoting replacement parts and then supplying a part which is actually incorrect for the application or is in some other way inferior, is not just deceptive practice, it implies no care at a corporate level to aftermarket customers- and none whatsoever for the environment which is the primary sufferer from such parades of marketing ********). Especially when it does not perform as well as the stock part, let alone provide an improvement. But their bottom line is improved and few are much wiser.

Thanks Joshua, Bill! I think I might try some NGK platinums (woops I think I meant Iridiums). If the economy* is no better I will go back to stock NGKs and report the results.

Umm Any thoughts on the condiditon of the plugs, btw?

* My economy is within 5% of stock at present. It may be better (who knows how they calculate it highway cylce let alone city cycle) and I also have a suspect AFM.

Also, just one thing- how do we know Super 4s do not use Platinum electrodes? I've checked out the Bosch info online is those filthy pdfs.
EDIT: I think my cynicism can answer this- any plug with a fat central electrode is not going to be one made form a rare metal :D (I only ask this as mine actually came in frikkin' Platinum packaging a year ago).

Why such companies can't make decent websites I have no idea. Making customers wade through so much rotting bloat is pretty harsh.

Web links are below for anyone interested in the latest tripe served up by our buddies at Bosch.

Catalogue (http://www.bosch.com.au/content/language1/downloads/SparkPlug05_06Catcover.pdf)

Application chart
(http://www.bosch.com.au/content/language1/downloads/sparkplugs_passenger_%282%29.pdf)
Their website full of ******** (http://www.boschautoparts.com)


:) Nick

[rob101]

Time to get a diesel then you won't have to worry about Robert Bosch's evil spark plugs.
hehe someone should do a 530d engine conversion in an e34 that would be cool!

[genphreak]

Time to get a diesel then you won't have to worry about Robert Bosch's evil spark plugs.
hehe someone should do a 530d engine conversion in an e34 that would be cool!Heh, too right Rob. Could one, if in full control of the ECU run Diesel at 9.5:1 compression in an M30? ROFL that would be hilarious with a snail... there are so many around, if it could eb done well such a kit might well save the current crop of M30B35 e32 and e34 powered cars...

[genphreak]

I remember Platniums getting a bad rap here, but I don't remember why. My car had them when I bought it. When I got the service 2 done in December, the indy was not not keen on them and replaced them with something else. Please refresh my memory. What is the supposed problem with them?I think Platinums with 2 electrodes are known for our cars to burn out too quickly and provide bad economy/performance.

EDIT- But there are many new types now; see my later post. There are at least 5 kinds of Bosch plug available for this application. Which of these are better described as rejects or simply incorrectly specified for our engines remains unclear, but Platinum +2s are well-known suspects.

Up until now, the pick of the bunch are the NGK with the new narrow tips (not sure which, Iridiums I think, I need to look into them one day), or to simply run stock as Whit and others recommend. Whether my testing can actually do anything to recover Bosch's reputation on their upgraded replacements for the normal WR8LC Super plugs (Bosch part 7509) in our application we are yet to see.

Some who swear by the stock spec plugs have even said one needs to have the OE spec ones (from the dealer) not the OEM supply ones. Farout, if that is true Bosch really need a kick up the preverbial...

[genphreak]

application for e34 535Yes thanks Bill, I've just been checking it out, it looks like there are no less than 5 aftermarket plug choices (if looking at Oz and US markets) for an M30B35.

If every other country also gets a special version made by Bosch, we'd have to have (if sourcing Internationally) at least 100 types of plug to choose from. Crazy world.... :D Nick

[rob101]

Heh, too right Rob. Could one, if in full control of the ECU run Diesel at 9.5:1 compression in an M30? ROFL that would be hilarious with a snail... there are so many around, if it could eb done well such a kit might well save the current crop of M30B35 e32 and e34 powered cars...
I was reading in europe they have the e65 745d 4.5 v8 diesel with 330 hp! that'd be good for a laugh in an e34:D

[winfred]

i always wanted the 3.9 twin turbo diesel v8 from the e38 740d, and a 6 speed to put behind it, that in a e34 would be cool with it's over 400 foot pounds of torque :D


I was reading in europe they have the e65 745d 4.5 v8 diesel with 330 hp! that'd be good for a laugh in an e34:D

[rob101]

Robert Bosch sent me an oxygen sensor with crushed threads. thats quality? will run a die over it, but do they get monkey's to make those parts?

[winfred]

one of my favorites of the new shitty age of bosch quality control, was a brand spanking new distributor kit for a 740 volvo (everything but the shaft, saves about $100) i get this thing assembled and on the car and one of the bolts for the cap won't thread in and i am starting to get pissed after a few minutes, so i pull the unit back out as you can't see **** on the back of the head and one of the holes had no threads, the other two are threaded what the ****?!


Robert Bosch sent me an oxygen sensor with crushed threads. thats quality? will run a die over it, but do they get monkey's to make those parts?

[genphreak]

one of my favorites of the new shitty age of bosch quality control, was a brand spanking new distributor kit for a 740 volvo (everything but the shaft, saves about $100) i get this thing assembled and on the car and one of the bolts for the cap won't thread in and i am starting to get pissed after a few minutes, so i pull the unit back out as you can't see **** on the back of the head and one of the holes had no threads, the other two are threaded what the ****?!But I bet you tapped it out and got on with it Winfred...

Bosch are just one of the stupid multinationals setting up in China and exporting. It beats me; what makes them think they can do it cheaper or nastier than the Chinese imitators can?

If I were them I'd find my labour in a more managable environment and only make **** in China that would be for sale to the Chinese market. They really need to avoid wrecking a company's culture, let alone its reputation. I guess they are not the only one's having a go at this though. :) Nick