Bimmer Indy Shop or Local All Tune and Lube?

[Jehu]

I have an appointment for Aug. 22 at the area BMW Guru Indy Shop to diagnose and treat my front end braking shudder. From what I gather it is likely Upper Control/Thrust Arm bushings which need replacing . Is there any reason i should steer clear of a local garage who may be able to do it sooner but is staffed by young ASE certified grease monkeys to replace the arms and bushings provided they can obtain the Lemforder arms with 750 i Bushings pressed in? I have not the means to do it myself being a Condo dweller.

[632 Regal]

you can order the lemforder arms with the 750 bushings from BMAparts.com, that way at least you will have the right parts. The job is pretty straight forward but I would only trust someone experienced with BMWs.

[Jehu]

Not sure the Indy shop will let me bring my own parts. He did put in an engine mount i supllied though i did kind of spring it on him once he had the car to work on, not sure if he has a policy so i guess i'll ask him.He said he wants to drive it himself first to know with certainty what it needs but i have no reason to believe the upper control arms don't need to be replaced.at 130K+ even if they've been replaced once before its time again and i'll have the peace of mind knowing the specialist is on the job.

[Ross]

Do it yourself, it's easy. The topic is well covered here and the only special tools you need are a pickle fork and BFH.
If you take it in go to someone with other BMWs parked in the lot.

[Jehu]

Don't i also need jack stands and a floor jack? can't keep those. I guess i could look into renting the tools as i do own a cargo van i could bring them somewhere but that's the next problem . No working on cars in the parking areas of this Condo. I have no alternative place to work on it either. Bimmer shop it is , he's so much in demand my appointment was three weeks out.

[RobPatt]

...ideally try these in order:
1. let the indy do it w/parts you supply (search this board for what you need) and you watch how and what he does....

2. get the parts yourself and find write ups on this board and do it yourself...need jackstands, maybe 3lb hammer, and some 1/2" sockets (17, 19, maybe 21mm I don't remember exactly...) you'll get: job satisfaction, save your $$, know your car better, etc... as maint. on this thing IS required and you'll be that much more equipped/experienced to take on the little things that come up along the way....

3. pay the indy and let him source good parts, torque to spec, etc etc...

good luck.
Rob sends....

[RobPatt]

saw jackstands at sears yesterday for $15 ....




...ideally try these in order:
1. let the indy do it w/parts you supply (search this board for what you need) and you watch how and what he does....

2. get the parts yourself and find write ups on this board and do it yourself...need jackstands, maybe 3lb hammer, and some 1/2" sockets (17, 19, maybe 21mm I don't remember exactly...) you'll get: job satisfaction, save your $$, know your car better, etc... as maint. on this thing IS required and you'll be that much more equipped/experienced to take on the little things that come up along the way....

3. pay the indy and let him source good parts, torque to spec, etc etc...

good luck.
Rob sends....

[Jehu]

saw jackstands at sears yesterday for $15 ....

In theory this is very helpfull. I have no location at which i could do the work nor a location to store something like afloor jack. I live on a third/top floor for one thing and there is no outside storage. I can't see me dragging or carrying a floor jack up and down three flights of stairs even if i did have a place to keep it out of the way.I would love to be able to do them myself, it just can't be done where i'm at now.

[632 Regal]

use the side of a Walmart or something?


Don't i also need jack stands and a floor jack? can't keep those. I guess i could look into renting the tools as i do own a cargo van i could bring them somewhere but that's the next problem . No working on cars in the parking areas of this Condo. I have no alternative place to work on it either. Bimmer shop it is , he's so much in demand my appointment was three weeks out.

[Derek A.]

...ideally try these in order:
1. let the indy do it w/parts you supply (search this board for what you need) and you watch how and what he does....


Most independants don't like to go that route. Some may turn you away. Do you walk into a steakhouse with a ziplock bag full of meat ?

Just my .02 cents worth.

D.-

[RobPatt]

....in any case, enjoy!

[Evan]

you really should do it yourself... make list of tools and parts.. take plenty of bottled water... and scout out a suitable place to park your car for three hours.

I see places everywhere around here... parking garages where the top floors are always empty... shopping centers... huge spaces like public schools and libraries.. churches... just be neat and clean.. no one will bother you.

[632 Regal]

correct and if the feds do question it tell em you should be out of there in driveable condition in a half hour...:D


you really should do it yourself... make list of tools and parts.. take plenty of bottled water... and scout out a suitable place to park your car for three hours.

I see places everywhere around here... parking garages where the top floors are always empty... shopping centers... huge spaces like public schools and libraries.. churches... just be neat and clean.. no one will bother you.

[DanDombrowski]

You do remember he asked about the upper control arms, right?

If my memory serves me, I spent many, many hours pounding on those arms with all sorts of specialty tools. Now, with experience, I know there are other ways, but we're talking about a first timer on a rooftop with limited tools.

[Jay 535i]

I've had good success with this method of operation:

1. Use your head, Bentley manual and this forum to diagnose all problems. Never take your car to a mechanic unless you already know exactly what's wrong. Otherwise you spend your life savings paying someone with a single-digit IQ to do an analysis, which is invariably not his strong suit.

2. Once you know what's wrong, it hardly matters where you take it, so long as it's just a nut-turning job.

In my experience, most mechanics are good enough at replacing parts if you tell them exactly what to do. But if you rely on a grease monkey to diagnose your problems -- which requires, knowledge, intelligence and critical reasoning -- you're gonna pay bigtime.

Making a long story short, the quintessential example of this is the time I paid a mechanic for 6 hours' labour to diagnose an overheating problem when the culprit turned out to be a blockage in a $10 hose. In the end he didn't solve the problem, but charged me $400 for trying. With the help of this forum I fixed it myself in the end. Lesson learned.

It's also typical that, rather than really diagnosing the problem, the guy just decides he'll replace everything. That seems to be a really common MO.

The gist of it is this: you may not be mechanically inclined, but chances are you are smarter than the average mechanic. Use that to your advantage and do your own thinking rather than paying a wrench-turner to think for you at $75/hr. By the time you bring him your car, the goal is to have all the thinking done already and have only wrench turning left to do.

[Gayle]

Jay you are a man after my own heart. My sentiments exactly.

Bill R--close your ears. I know this kind of talk really pisses you off. Sorry.

And to all the professionals who are so helpful to the rest of us idiots on the board--we have news for you. There are mechanics out there not of your caliber. And there is a karmic lottery that matches the few bad mechanics out there with those of us who are the most loud mouthed whiners. Its just Tao.

[pundit]

...Do you walk into a steakhouse with a ziplock bag full of meat ?...
Yeah, all the time. Why don't you? :D

[aston_jag_tech]

I personally have done the bushings and ball joints myself because I am a auto tech, or as some put it "grease monkey" which is extremely offensive in my situation. I have seen grease monkeys and techs and I am def a tech.

I do aggree with some indy shops charging aarm and leg for the repair only because they dont specialize and work on BMWs all day, have had no training on the BMWs and are, in most cases, old school techs.

I think the best way to deal the problem is to take it to BMW dealership and let the pros take care of you with all the correct tools and procedures. And hey maybe they will find some other components that may need replacing soon.

-Scott

[Jehu]

I think i just kind of bristle at the thought of a mechanic making money by adding a charge to the parts when he orders them rather than just chareging me what i could get them for if i ordered them while refusing to allow me to buy the parts myself and install them prvided it is understood i am ordering the correct parts and they are to OEM spec and i will not hold him liable for warranty work required due to a failure of any parts i suplly . I don't see why a shop would turn down work based on those terms. He's still making money isn't he? For isnatnce i took the car to the All Tune and Lube to have them check the Oil Pump bolts when i heard all the horror stories of lose and missing bolts and pumps hanging by chains.The pan gasket is like $20.00 online but he charged me $50.00. having noplace to drain oil i had no choice and i wanted it done sooner than later,I wanted to drive the thing and needed to know i was safe.That's a pretty steep mark up if you ask me.He has a sign up that they will not install customer parts.

[Jehu]

I personally have done the bushings and ball joints myself because I am a auto tech, or as some put it "grease monkey" which is extremely offensive in my situation. I have seen grease monkeys and techs and I am def a tech.

I do agree with some Indy shops charging arm and leg for the repair only because they dont specialize and work on BMWs all day, have had no training on the BMWs and are, in most cases, old school techs.

I think the best way to deal the problem is to take it to BMW dealership and let the pros take care of you with all the correct tools and procedures. And hey maybe they will find some other components that may need replacing soon.

-Scott

I did take it to the Dealership for the State Safety Inspection and they told me the front end looked tight to them.The brake shudder was in evidence at that time so there was no more particularly thorough insight from them.The Indy shop I'm taking it to next week(I've had the appointment for three weeks now)does work exclusively on BMW's and has for more than a dozen years.

[aston_jag_tech]

I did take it to the Dealership for the State Safety Inspection and they told me the front end looked tight to them.The brake shudder was in evidence at that time so there was no more particularly thorough insight from them.The Indy shop I'm taking it to next week(I've had the appointment for three weeks now)does work exclusively on BMW's and has for more than a dozen years.

Sorry to hear, thats really sad to hear that a BMW dealer wouldnt help you out. Did you offer to spend more time money for them to figure out the problem since it wasnt viusally apparent to them?

[Blitzkrieg Bob]

has a house with a drive way

tools

and likes beer.

Buy lots of beer, BMW parts and show up Saturday afternoon.

My family does it to me all the time....except I end up buying the beer and parts...they just show up with a broken car...Bad deal!

[Gayle]

I have seen grease monkeys and techs and I am def a tech.
-Scott

This is getting interesting. What makes you consider someone to be a grease monkey? What makes you not respect someone who is working on cars?

I have never used that term--grease monkey. And I will deck anyone who calls you that. :)

I have found "idiot mechanics" in all sorts of establishments including bmw dealerships and I have found "brilliant, walk on water, mechanics" in all sorts of establishments including s___ hole garages. And after someone works on your car, you definitely put them somewhere on the continum between those two poles. And it is not based on how many certified training certificates they have hanging on the wall.

So how do rate mechanics Scott?

[Blitzkrieg Bob]

fling poo

[Gayle]

fling poo

Bob--I appreciate the way we can always count on you for an erudite contribution to the conversation--ever there with the uplifting and enlightening remark.

[aston_jag_tech]

So how do rate mechanics Scott?


I have seen great and horrible techs at indy shops and dealers. And this is probably a part of why it is this way...

I think what makes or breaks a tech is their attitude on servicing cars. I love to work on cars because thats how I was raised from a toddler. Now, my friend on the other hand in Detroit, worked at a dealer for a few months and quit because he wasnt making "money". All he cared about was flagging as many hours and getting the car out fast. I believe if you stay focused on one certian manufacturer and maintain being certified and trianed with the latest tech bulletins, service bulletins, field service actions, whatever you want to call them, that the money will come to you eventually.

My teamleader is a damn good tech, he is literally a book, it is amazing at how smart he is. Ive learned so much from him and it rocks becuase Im that much more expeienced.

Then you have techs who will just do what they are told to fix from their leader and they really dont enjoy or feel proud of thier work. Its sad but true.

I was a grease monkey when I started ripping apart a 350 chevy engine when I was 13. But now, experienced, trained and plugged into the field I consider myself a technician.

I guess it all comes down to how the mind was trained and what experiences it went through to decide what is good and bad as far as mechanics. ;)

I hope this answered the question, I was never asked that before. Cheers.

Scott

[Jehu]

was I responsible for using that term? I did use it to distinguish a well trained tech from a guy who "works on cars"The approach I suppose makes the difference.Its apparent usually to me in the attitude of the mechanic. I can tell fairly early and easily when a mechanic is truly thoroughly conversant on the matter at hand, is professionally skilled and trained and really wants to help you fix your car and when its just a job for the guy.

[aston_jag_tech]

I can tell fairly early and easily when a mechanic is truly thoroughly conversant on the matter at hand, is professionally skilled and trained and really wants to help you fix your car and when its just a job for the guy.

I dont think so I saw it somewhere in the thread, no worries. Thats really great you talk to your techs face to face. But sometimes its also good to have the buffers in betwwen sometimes ;). Could not have been put it better myself.

I think thats one of the other reasons I choose this field. Working on my car myself and not having to deal with the dealerships, indy shops. But I know when Im 90 I am going to HAVE to bend over.:D

[Bill R.]

an imbecile based on posts like this from you. This post just
confirms my suspicions.









Edit, again, undoing my edit.





I've had good success with this method of operation:

1. Use your head, Bentley manual and this forum to diagnose all problems. Never take your car to a mechanic unless you already know exactly what's wrong. Otherwise you spend your life savings paying someone with a single-digit IQ to do an analysis, which is invariably not his strong suit.

2. Once you know what's wrong, it hardly matters where you take it, so long as it's just a nut-turning job.

In my experience, most mechanics are good enough at replacing parts if you tell them exactly what to do. But if you rely on a grease monkey to diagnose your problems -- which requires, knowledge, intelligence and critical reasoning -- you're gonna pay bigtime.

Making a long story short, the quintessential example of this is the time I paid a mechanic for 6 hours' labour to diagnose an overheating problem when the culprit turned out to be a blockage in a $10 hose. In the end he didn't solve the problem, but charged me $400 for trying. With the help of this forum I fixed it myself in the end. Lesson learned.

It's also typical that, rather than really diagnosing the problem, the guy just decides he'll replace everything. That seems to be a really common MO.

The gist of it is this: you may not be mechanically inclined, but chances are you are smarter than the average mechanic. Use that to your advantage and do your own thinking rather than paying a wrench-turner to think for you at $75/hr. By the time you bring him your car, the goal is to have all the thinking done already and have only wrench turning left to do.

[Jon K]

Eek - this is going to turn into a abrasive convo.

Let's put it this way - I am young and clearly have not had as much experience around cars as say Bill R and Winfred, but I don't claim to know everything either. I can fix 95% of things, I'd say, but every now (argh my oil pan issue!) and then something pops up that I don't know about. I guess the truth is these are just machines built by people, so they should be repaired by people, but not all people understand machines nor care to. A indy or any other mechanic is for that person, or for people like me who fix 95% of things but 5% of them either piss me off or I don't understand. Sometimes its the opposite where 95% of jobs are over peoples heads, it doesn't really matter. But to say that Indy's are worthless and to never use one is kind of insulting - there are mechanics on this forum that provide people free advice - if they stopped posting here, the forum would be full of questions with no answers, and you'd be knocking on their door for help!

I think its safe to say that there is a delicate balance of fixers and fixees, and we should really just leave that be

[Jehu]

Maybe it could help to clarify that when i use the term Indy in my situation it is in reference to a BMW specialist shop Independent from BMWNA not merely a local garage with ASE cert mechanics.I initially wanted to hear if the idea of having one of the latter do my Control Arms seemed like an unwise choice because of how religiously so many BMW owners insist only a BMW certified tech should ever as much as breath around your BMW.

[Jon K]

We know what you meant - we've used the word once or twice before ;)

[aston_jag_tech]

Eek - this is going to turn into a abrasive convo.

Let's put it this way - I am young and clearly have not had as much experience around cars as say Bill R and Winfred, but I don't claim to know everything either. I can fix 95% of things, I'd say, but every now (argh my oil pan issue!) and then something pops up that I don't know about. I guess the truth is these are just machines built by people, so they should be repaired by people, but not all people understand machines nor care to. A indy or any other mechanic is for that person, or for people like me who fix 95% of things but 5% of them either piss me off or I don't understand. Sometimes its the opposite where 95% of jobs are over peoples heads, it doesn't really matter. But to say that Indy's are worthless and to never use one is kind of insulting - there are mechanics on this forum that provide people free advice - if they stopped posting here, the forum would be full of questions with no answers, and you'd be knocking on their door for help!

I think its safe to say that there is a delicate balance of fixers and fixees, and we should really just leave that be

That rocked.

[aston_jag_tech]

Maybe it could help to clarify that when i use the term Indy in my situation it is in reference to a BMW specialist shop Independent from BMWNA not merely a local garage with ASE cert mechanics.I initially wanted to hear if the idea of having one of the latter do my Control Arms seemed like an unwise choice because of how religiously so many BMW owners insist only a BMW certified tech should ever as much as breath around your BMW.
I didnt mean to get off subject. Ive just talked to people who know nothing about me and say "oh yeah, so youre a grease monkey, etc". No hard feelings from me though. I hope you get your brake shudder fixed, And hope you share what they found the culprit to the concern.:)

-Scott

[Jon K]

I didnt mean to get off subject. Ive just talked to people who know nothing about me and say "oh yeah, so youre a grease monkey, etc". No hard feelings from me though. I hope you get your brake shudder fixed, And hope you share what they found the culprit to the concern.:)

-Scott


It's control arm bushings and or tie rod ends... it's so well-covered on the forum it's the clear culprit - if not, warped rotors. There's only so much that can be wrong in order for that issue to exist - any bmw indy would tell him that ;)

[aston_jag_tech]

It's control arm bushings and or tie rod ends... it's so well-covered on the forum it's the clear culprit - if not, warped rotors. There's only so much that can be wrong in order for that issue to exist - any bmw indy would tell him that ;)

I did all that stuff a while ago, but you think 750 bushings and or the aluminum control arms are worth it and even polyurethane the bushings? I read somewhere that the e34 front suspension has a light load on it. But how could that be if weight is what 51/49??

-Scott

[Jehu]

Thanks. I will report in. I wanted to drive up to the White Mountains and camp this weekend and while the shudder may not be so dramatic that its undriveable , i don't imagine its doing anything any good by putting it under the additional forces.My appointment is for the 22nd so maybe we'll get one last good Summer week here before Autumn beings the chill again.When the car was up on a lift last week to check the oil pump bolts i looked at the Upper CA bushings and it appeared from what i could see there was some cracking of the bushings.I will be having 750 bushings( because BMW directs them be used) installed in Lemforder arms at least.I suspect that will be the fix.I had tie rod ends put on before i bought it in April as well as new brake pads.The BMW dealership did a State safety Inspection and a BMW Indy did a PPI and neither commented that there was any indication of any issue with the rotors only that as the car had sat for a while in heavy rains in a lot they were rusty. they're nice and shiny now and i read the article about cementites being the cause of problems in rotors not actually a warping.That may be in play here and I'll see if the shop has the means to check the rotor surfaces for that condition

[Jon K]

I did all that stuff a while ago, but you think 750 bushings and or the aluminum control arms are worth it and even polyurethane the bushings? I read somewhere that the e34 front suspension has a light load on it. But how could that be if weight is what 51/49??

-Scott


I use steel arms with grunts urethane bushings - this combo is the only one that remedied my shimmy. I went through 750i bushings in about 10,000 miles. Some say its because they weren't installed properly (torqued with car on the ground) but they were, and if they're THAT picky, I don't want them on my car ;)

[aston_jag_tech]

I use steel arms with grunts urethane bushings - this combo is the only one that remedied my shimmy. I went through 750i bushings in about 10,000 miles. Some say its because they weren't installed properly (torqued with car on the ground) but they were, and if they're THAT picky, I don't want them on my car ;)

Sounds good. Hey arent you building an engine? I thought I saw a thread with your big turbo. Yes? Or am I way off?

[Jon K]

Sounds good. Hey arent you building an engine? I thought I saw a thread with your big turbo. Yes? Or am I way off?


Yep that's me

[aston_jag_tech]

Thanks. I will report in. I wanted to drive up to the White Mountains and camp this weekend and while the shudder may not be so dramatic that its undriveable , i don't imagine its doing anything any good by putting it under the additional forces.My appointment is for the 22nd so maybe we'll get one last good Summer week here before Autumn beings the chill again.When the car was up on a lift last week to check the oil pump bolts i looked at the Upper CA bushings and it appeared from what i could see there was some cracking of the bushings.I will be having 750 bushings( because BMW directs them be used) installed in Lemforder arms at least.I suspect that will be the fix.I had tie rod ends put on before i bought it in April as well as new brake pads.The BMW dealership did a State safety Inspection and a BMW Indy did a PPI and neither commented that there was any indication of any issue with the rotors only that as the car had sat for a while in heavy rains in a lot they were rusty. they're nice and shiny now and i read the article about cementites being the cause of problems in rotors not actually a warping.That may be in play here and I'll see if the shop has the means to check the rotor surfaces for that condition
Hope you have a great time camping. I went to Big Bear last weekend and it was pretty sweet to be on a mountain for the first time.
I read an article on that also, I think it was on here. How much did the 750i bushings cost you? What is different than the 5 series, the durability, strength of the bushing?

[Jehu]

I haven't gotten them yet. I read that service bulletin and figured i should do what the manufacturer recommends. I've heard the Urethane bushings result in a hard ride, not interested.I've seen Sachs/Boge 750 bushings for $20.00 ea on line. I'd like to think that this Indy shop at $90 /hr will charge me around $350 to diagnose the shimmy ,order and install the arms with bushings. From what I've read it doesn't seem like anyone but especially such an elevated being as a BMW specialist should need more than an hour to replace Upper Control Arms when they've been doing it for 15 years or whatever.

[Blitzkrieg Bob]

I am getting worried with all this saccharin sweet spirituality. I hope you're not getting into the patient’s meds.

[ThoreauHD]

My indy shops allow me to bring in OEM parts. At 90/hr they don't really care about what is installed. They would prefer that you buy it through them, because it helps them maintain their accounts with whomever, but other than that it's no big deal. I have found that the parts they buy from their OE reseller is 25% more expensive than I can get out in the world. This may be due to overnight shipping or courier costs. Or it may be due to them not having a internet connection. I don't know. But after paying a grand over what I could have gotten through BMA or Bavauto, I refuse to go to a shop that disallows bringing in OEM parts.

I also refuse to have a 18 year old diagnose a problem on my dime. I want these kids to learn, just as I had to learn my field. But I didn't charge the customer for the effort. Indy's do. And after 500 bucks spent going nowhere it goes from merely annoying to downright financially crippling.

The dealers tend to do the job right and stand by their work- and also the parts aren't as expensive as Indy's for some reason. All in all, I've found the best way is to find the problem, order the parts, and make an appointment with an Indy that doesn't mind installing OE parts he didn't order. To be fair, I haven't found a Indy yet that does not take OE parts. But the majority do not take aftermarket offbrand parts. It's not worth the hassle, and that's understandable.

But sometimes, when the **** hits the fan, you just gotta take what you can get. With impending doom looming, it's better to pay up first rather than roll the dice later.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y106/toasty0z/bad_radiator.jpg

[Gayle]

I want to go on record that I don't consider myself to be mechanic bashing. I stand for the ability to put the full range of experience out there uncensored. There are good and bad service providers in every field.

Last year I had to go to a dentist other than my long time dentist and they did a crappy job and I had a very uncomfortable conversation with them from the chair about my dissatisfaction with the work.

I just got a new prescription for glasses that is wrong. This is the second time this has happened to me with this doctor so I am the idiot for going back to her.

There are good and bad providers in every field. This is car forum. If we have a bad experience related to our cars, we talk about it. We don't usually talk about our bad experiences with other providers here, but that doesn't change the fact there are skilled and unskilled in every profession.

I think the concern is that acknowledging we can get burned by unskilled mechanics is thought to be disparaging mechanics as a group and creating a negative attitude toward mechanics in the impressionable members of this board. We are all adults here. I haven't found people here to be that impressionable.

And what about the 20 other posts I have made singing the praises of my current indy? I LOVE my indy. Spent the day hanging over the indy’s shoulder (http://www.bimmer.info/forum/showthread.php?t=16954) Can I say that again? I LOVE my indy. But do I think or claim that all indys are as wonderful. No. I don't hear people complaining that I am creating a false positive image of mechanics every time I mention in a thread how great my indy is.

I don't believe in censorship. I don't believe in political correctness. I assume that people here can form their opinions based on the whole range of information presented across many threads. I assume that people evaluate the source. I expect that people evaluate the general negativity factor of the poster and take that into consideration--people blow off those of us that are whiners.

Also this is the age of the internet. Don't we all research our medical conditions prior to our conversations with the doctor and try to diagnose ourselves? It makes for a better conversation with the ever so rushed doctor. We are trained to be medically empowered--to be our own case managers. Why would we not do the same with our cars? I don't agree with those who say you should tell the mechanic what to do, but I do think you should inform yourself as much as possible about what might by wrong prior to taking your car in. It allows you to pay attention to the car's behavior and give the mechanic more useful information.



And with that said, let me also say that the professional mechanics who post here do walk on water and have a generosity of spirit that is amazing.


Bill R, Whit, Winfred, jousha43214, aston_jag_tech and anyone else I have missed.


You guys rock. It is your contributions that make this place special. Thank you for all that you do for the rest of us ingrates.


.

[Jay 535i]

Jay, i have long suspected that you're an imbecile based on posts like this from you. This post just confirms my suspicions.

Oh reaaally?

To me, judging someone you've never met based solely on their forum posts seems pretty imbecilic. Reacting with personal insults against a forum post which is obviously a generalization given with good intentions ranks right up there, too.

I'd watch who you call imbecile. I don't pretend to be half the mechanic you are, and you shouldn't pretend to be half as smart as I am. :)

[Jon K]

Thread should be locked just because its silly and it doesn't even change things. The world is how the world is - sometimes I wish it weren't but I can't do anything about it :)

[Bill R.]

apologize. I let your irritating nonsense get to me and i shouldn't have.
Evidently i am spending too much time here and its time for me to go do something else.





Oh reaaally?

To me, judging someone you've never met based solely on their forum posts seems pretty imbecilic. Reacting with personal insults against a forum post which is obviously a generalization given with good intentions ranks right up there, too.

I'd watch who you call imbecile. I don't pretend to be half the mechanic you are, and you shouldn't pretend to be half as smart as I am. :)

[Jay 535i]

Apology accepted. Thanks.

I'll always be first to admit I don't know much about these things, but that's why I come here. It should go without saying that everything spoken here is merely opinion -- some more informed than others, granted. I can only speak from my own experience, and there are good and bad in every profession...

[aston_jag_tech]

Gayle, thanks for the compliment. Your top half of your engine is sooo clean(rockers) Mine is as the indy tech said "carmalized". hey that shop sounds really good. Glad that you found a good service department.

About the torched bmw, burn baby burn, ahaha

[Evan]

The first thing I do here is read posts by Bill R. -- then I ignore posts by Regal, Scott H, and Gayle, and the resident conservative political analists.

Then I browse... read some more Bill R. posts.. then ignore Jeff some more... that's about it.

[Jehu]

The first thing I do here is read posts by Bill R. -- then I ignore posts by Regal, Scott H, and Gayle, and the resident conservative political analists.

Then I browse... read some more Bill R. posts.. then ignore Jeff some more... that's about it.

You must be desperate.See, I can be blunt and forthright here because I am not here asking any 'mechanic' to tell me what i need to do to fix my car. I have no place to work on it,have no place to keep tools so if i find some of the resident Ascended Masters to be jerks i have no reason to keep it to myself.There's always the block list too ...

[Jon K]

If you've ever talked to Scott H, he's helpful. But hey if you don't like help, don't take it!

[Blitzkrieg Bob]

disparging?

Hell, I know lots of professional mechanics, they don't take offense.

"Got grease under my nails and I am proud of it, now pass me a banana"

[HDhandyman]

got back from vacation. Scott is barely here anymore, Whit is never around, Winfred is too bogged down with everybody else's posts, and I really need another nonsensical person here to answer my questions;)

Aside from all that, this forum will turn into a ****ing rice steamer without you, and you've probably made a larger contribution than anybody here.

Pretty please with candy canes, and sugar, and a Maraschino cherry on top?.......:D

[Jehu]

I tried to probe Gayle's tech report that low viscosity synthetic oil was responsible for her car's cracking a rocker arm when in the possession of the PO. I laid out my amateur, non professional understanding of the design of internal combustion engines stating explicitly i had never studied the topic and was speaking from bits and pieces of casually gathered information about how much pressure is in force within the oil system in the engine in an attempt to arrive at the truth clearly explained.My comment was met with a reply from Bill R That came across as a backhanded cut, something really incongruous in light of the fact i plainly said i had never studied the matter at hand and was just trying to open the topic that the facts could be discussed and either support Gayle's tech's diagnosis or show how it was an inadequate explanation for the cracked rocker arm.
I had a reason for wanting to know because the mechanic last week filled my M60 with 5w30.In questioning the relative pressures to which the volume of oil is subjected as it courses thru the engine i mentioned the valve train to contrast the areas where the oil is contained within an area of smaller volume which would be easier to pressurize.Exhaust and Intake valves do open to the air intake and exhaust manifold don't they?That tail pipe isn't sealed right?Oil is delivered to the valve train correct?One point where i am uninformed is about how the valve train is lubricated without oil entering the combustion chamber.
I was basically trying to figure out from what i did know, which i said was virtually nothing, how an engine works.I like to challenge myself.I could look it all up on line but i thought the board would enjoy and maybe some would benefit from the discussion.Bill R's comment in light of statements like Evan's wasn't in the character of a helpful spirit.
Anyway if my ignorance of a subject was to him cause for a somewhat in my view rude joke seeing as i hadn't any time before communicated a thing to him I have no reason to consider him the valuable source some may. Remember ,I have no reason to make a friend of him as i see no time in the future I'll be looking over the engine bay of my 540 wondering what this or that part is and what to do with it next and want to run here and ask him to explain it to me. If I did I would probably have overlooked the uncalled for and unproductive remark made at my expense and held my peace. As it is it pissed me off and i don't care who he is. :)

[HDhandyman]

I tried to probe Gayle's tech report that low viscosity synthetic oil was responsible for her car's cracking a rocker arm when in the possession of the PO. I laid out my amateur, non professional understanding of the design of internal combustion engines stating explicitly i had never studied the topic and was speaking from bits and pieces of casually gathered information about how much pressure is in force within the oil system in the engine in an attempt to arrive at the truth clearly explained.My comment was met with a reply from Bill R That came across as a backhanded cut, something really incongruous in light of the fact i plainly said i had never studied the matter at hand and was just trying to open the topic that the facts could be discussed and either support Gayle's tech's diagnosis or show how it was an inadequate explanation for the cracked rocker arm. I had a reason for wanting to know because the mechanic last week filled my M60 with 5w30.In questioning the relative pressures to which the volume of oil is subjected as it courses thru the engine i mentioned the valve train to contrast the areas where the oil is contained within an area of smaller volume which would be easier to pressurize.Exhaust and Intake valves do open to the air intake and exhaust manifold don't they?That tail pipe isn't sealed right?Oil is delivered to the valve train correct?One point where i am uninformed is about how the valve train is lubricated without oil entering the combustion chamber. I was basically trying to figure out from what i did know, which i said was virtually nothing, how an engine works.I like to challenge myself.I could look it all up on line but i thought the board would enjoy and maybe some would benefit from the discussion.Bill R's comment in light of statements like Evan's wasn't in the character of a helpful spirit.Anyway if my ignorance of a subject was to him cause for a somewhat in my view rude joke seeing as i hadn't any time before communicated a thing to him I have no reason to consider him the valuable source some may. Remember I have no reason to make a friend of him as i see no time in the future I'll be looking over the engine bay of my 540 wondering what this or that part is and what to do with it next and want to run here and ask him to explain it to me. If I did I would probably have overlooked the uncalled for and unproductive remark made at my expense and held my peace. As it is it pissed me off and i don't care who he is. :)

uhmm....commas and paragraphs?

I'm not getting in the middle of this...just saying it was hard to read.

[Jehu]

Hey ,i used a spell checker.it doesn't format the text?There is no 'this' as far as I'm concerned .If asking questions on topics about which I lack information and understanding is OFF TOPIC then I apologize .

[BigKriss]

Get over it mate, it's only an internet forum. Bill R is the most knowledgeable person you will probably find on here, not only that in terms of factual correctness it would be extremely rare that he would be proved wrong with anything to do with cars. Not only that, if we didn't have mechanics like him on here with all his knowledge this forum would turn into a place like dtmpower.net, where the amount of **** to usefull information is around 90:10.

As for gayle's post on her car's previous owner breaking a rocker arm after switching to synthetic oil. This made no sense to me at all and the events are completely unrelated.

Okay guys I've had enough for today.


Bill R's comment in light of statements like Evan's wasn't in the character of a helpful spirit.Anyway if my ignorance of a subject was to him cause for a somewhat in my view rude joke seeing as i hadn't any time before communicated a thing to him I have no reason to consider him the valuable source some may. Remember I have no reason to make a friend of him as i see no time in the future I'll be looking over the engine bay of my 540 wondering what this or that part is and what to do with it next and want to run here and ask him to explain it to me. If I did I would probably have overlooked the uncalled for and unproductive remark made at my expense and held my peace. As it is it pissed me off and i don't care who he is. :)

[Zeuk in Oz]

Get over it mate, it's only an internet forum. Bill R is the most knowledgeable person you will probably find on here, not only that in terms of factual correctness it would be extremely rare that he would be proved wrong with anything to do with cars. Not only that, if we didn't have mechanics like him on here with all his knowledge this forum would turn into a place like dtmpower.net, where the amount of **** to usefull information is around 90:10.

As for gayle's post on her car's previous owner breaking a rocker arm after switching to synthetic oil. This made no sense to me at all and the events are completely unrelated.

Okay guys I've had enough for today.
Must say I agree with Kriss !

As a newly qualified grand master I am now going to throw some weight around and say we ( the great unwashed) should thank our lucky stars that guys like Bill R, Winfred, Whit, et al bother to frequent this forum at all !

Thank you, thank you, thank you !

[DanDombrowski]

I go to neweclipse.org every once in awhile for info on my dad's Mitsu eclipse. Crap to info ratio there is about 98:02. Its pretty bad.