In Texas, it's worse than you think

[mikell]

The thread about a front plate reminded me that in Texas we have a law that prohibits displaying a license plate that is obscured in any number of ways. The idea, I think, was to prevent the use of covers designed to thwart photo devices used to catch toll road scoflaws, and to prohibit outright covering all or part of the plate number itself.

But, in a recent case, a Texas appeals ocurt upheld a conviction of a motorist whose plate was "obscured" by a license plate frame (like the ones dealers put on) that covered only the words "The Lone Star State" and part of a decorative logo - and did NOT cover any part of the number. The court held that anything which "obscures an original design feature of the plate" is a violation.

Geez - so, I guess you just screw the plate to the car without any frame, or covering of any kind, unless you want to give some officer a reason to pull you over for a chat. I do not use a frame on my plates - Texas does require a front one.

[SnakeyesTx]

Yep... that happened to me the day that new law went into effect this year. I had this cadillac that my family bought 16 years ago with the original dealer plate border and some jackass cop pulled me over and slapped me with a ticket. I explained its been there for 16 years with no incident and he replied "New law, that's the brakes... sign here." I got out of the car and snapped the border off and he threatened to add littering so with a smug look on my face I threw it in the back seat. I got a dismissal when I told the court what happened, and apparently the officer in question was under review for harassing other people for the same incident :D

[callen]

there was legislation introduced last year requiring only rear plate....guess it didn't pass...wish it did...

have two cars without front tags...

[mikell]

You're right - it failed because the law enforcement community thought the front plate essential to maintaining safety on the road. Personally, I think they ought to at least allow a smaller front plate with only the number maybe - hell, I'd even pay a few bucks more if I could have that. It is, after all, all about the money.

[Dash01]

The reason the cops insist on you having a front plate is that license plates are specifically designed as radar, light, and laser reflectors. That's where they aim the laser speed gun, and obstruction of it means more difficult speed detection and therefore fewer tickets written.

Don't believe me? On a dark night or in a dark garage, point a handheld laser pointer at various places on your car. Guess which one is most reflective?

In Texas or other jurisdicitons, don't wash the license plates, or at least bend them such that they reflect radar in some other direction than back toward the speed trap. (likely straight ahead) Stealth technology depends on a combination of both non-reflectivity and limited reflectivity to directions other than the source.

[SnakeyesTx]

No good, I mangled my plate halfway under the bumper on my jeep once and the top half had mud dobs all over it, and instead of no plate, I got a ticket for overly disfigured plate >:O

[Wes F]

The reason the cops insist on you having a front plate is that license plates are specifically designed as radar, light, and laser reflectors. That's where they aim the laser speed gun, and obstruction of it means more difficult speed detection and therefore fewer tickets written.

Yep, that sure has everything to do with safety...It's retarded laws like this that really piss me off. Laws that only have the purpose of generating money for the state. For example, here in Hawaii, SUVs, minivans and the like can have blacked out tint on any window behind the driver, BUT a regular car cannot. The darkest you can go is 35%, which sucks - not dark enough to protect and cool against the blazing sun we have. Now I can understand a law against dark tint on the front windows and windshield, but why the hell can SUVs have 5% tint on the rears but not cars? It's ******** is what it is. Just another way for the state to rake in the dough, giving officer dumbshit the power to say, "you sir, are driving an unsafe car, this tint is too dark," as he walks back to his blacked out SUV to write a $100 ticket. Uurrgh...[/rant]

[Alexlind123]

Yep, that sure has everything to do with safety...It's retarded laws like this that really piss me off. Laws that only have the purpose of generating money for the state. For example, here in Hawaii, SUVs, minivans and the like can have blacked out tint on any window behind the driver, BUT a regular car cannot. The darkest you can go is 35%, which sucks - not dark enough to protect and cool against the blazing sun we have. Now I can understand a law against dark tint on the front windows and windshield, but why the hell can SUVs have 5% tint on the rears but not cars? It's ******** is what it is. Just another way for the state to rake in the dough, giving officer dumbshit the power to say, "you sir, are driving an unsafe car, this tint is too dark," as he walks back to his blacked out SUV to write a $100 ticket. Uurrgh...[/rant]

Bring that to the attention of the environmentalists.

[Wes F]

Bring that to the attention of the environmentalists.

? Don't follow ya...

[Alexlind123]

? Don't follow ya...

It sounds to me like they are favoring large gas-guzzling SUVs over small, fuel efficient cars.

[dternst]

The thread about a front plate reminded me that in Texas we have a law that prohibits displaying a license plate that is obscured in any number of ways. The idea, I think, was to prevent the use of covers designed to thwart photo devices used to catch toll road scoflaws, and to prohibit outright covering all or part of the plate number itself.

But, in a recent case, a Texas appeals ocurt upheld a conviction of a motorist whose plate was "obscured" by a license plate frame (like the ones dealers put on) that covered only the words "The Lone Star State" and part of a decorative logo - and did NOT cover any part of the number. The court held that anything which "obscures an original design feature of the plate" is a violation.

Geez - so, I guess you just screw the plate to the car without any frame, or covering of any kind, unless you want to give some officer a reason to pull you over for a chat. I do not use a frame on my plates - Texas does require a front one.

It does state in the law that the TEXAS on the licence plate must be visible and can not be obstructed. I would assume this would be the same for anyother wording on the plate. Some dealerships have started altering their plates by grinding away enough material on the cover to reveal TEXAS and Lone Star State.

[ThoreauHD]

So Texas passes a law requiring you to incriminate yourself. Sounds like a Constitutional violation to me.

[SnakeyesTx]

worse yet... our city cops here in Houston will camp at overpass U-turn lanes to bust people stuck in traffic trying to make their U-turns for expired registration or inspection stickers. Naturally not having a place to pull over, sometimes they back traffic up even worse >:O How's that for entrapment!

[dternst]

worse yet... our city cops here in Houston will camp at overpass U-turn lanes to bust people stuck in traffic trying to make their U-turns for expired registration or inspection stickers. Naturally not having a place to pull over, sometimes they back traffic up even worse >:O How's that for entrapment!

How can that be entrapment? You have an expired registration or inspection sticker...

The legal definition of entrapment: "A person is 'entrapped' when he is induced or persuaded by law enforcement officers or their agents to commit a crime that he had no previous intent to commit; and the law as a matter of policy forbids conviction in such a case."

he police aren't making you commit a crime or break the law... you've broken the law by having an expired registration or inspection sticker.

[dternst]

So Texas passes a law requiring you to incriminate yourself. Sounds like a Constitutional violation to me.

I'm failing to see the connection... Please explain further.

[Airborne001]

The reason the cops insist on you having a front plate is that license plates are specifically designed as radar, light, and laser reflectors. That's where they aim the laser speed gun, and obstruction of it means more difficult speed detection and therefore fewer tickets written.

Mythbusters tested this, and found it all to be false. Nothing they put on or took off the car made any difference in radar detection. The even tried the bras out that claim to eliminate the signature.

If any of this stuff worked, the Air Force would be spraying it all over old F16's to make them in Stealth fighters.

[nizmainiac]

mythbusters, i like that show

[ThoreauHD]

I'm failing to see the connection... Please explain further.

The purpose if a license plate is to identify that you have registered your vehicle with the DMV. Anything beyond that, like placing a GPS tracker on your car, or a bar code on your windshield or plate, is going beyond the purpose of registration. And falls into the realm of self-incrimination and privacy invasion.

The truth is that under the Constitution, you do not have to register your car with the DMV at all. You do not need a license plate. All you need is the manufacturers certificate of ownership- which the dealer typically holds- and if you register your vehicle- the DMV typically holds. You have to buy the car outright and ask for it to get it.

Article 4 ensures that the citizens of each state are to be treated as a citizen of any state they are visiting; there is to be free travel between states; that no special taxes be levied on the sales of goods to a citizen of another state; established extradition between the states; and established that the decisions of each states' courts would be recognized by all other states.

Free means free. As in cost and liberty. If your state has signed this Constitution then it must abide by it. It is the supreme law of the land, and above states laws. States laws cannot conflict with it while being in the Union.

Here is a nice tutorial for reference from last years presidential candidate.

http://www.archive.org/details/Michael_Badnarik

[mikell]

The truth is that under the Constitution, you do not have to register your car with the DMV at all. You do not need a license plate. All you need is the manufacturers certificate of ownership- which the dealer typically holds- and if you register your vehicle- the DMV typically holds. You have to buy the car outright and ask for it to get it.


Go for it, amigo - I prasie your libertarianism. However, this may be one of those battles where victory is elusive. You know, government has found all of these ways to raise money and way more ways to spend it.

I know people who say that driving is a constitutional right and so one need not have a driver's license. I also know people who claim that they don't have to pay income taxes because the US went off of the gold standard. And then there are those who claim that the federal govenrment is not allowed to levy taxes on the citizens of Texas because the article of annexartion (1845) are void.

So, give it a test and let us know how you do in the Supreme Court. We are all pulling for you. Power to the people.

Best of luck.