Am I the only one pissed at how slow the M20 is... Seriously

[CharlesAFerg]

It's a piece of ****.
It's pissing me off.

Why would they put that engine in such a large car. wtf.

GODDAMNIT

[CharlesAFerg]

It's a piece of ****.
It's pissing me off.

Why would they put that engine in such a large car. wtf.

GODDAMNIT


Its just as expensive to maintain as something that-
A. That would have the SAME terrible (15.6) gas milage
B. MUCH more power.
or C. Much more luxurious...

Im losing faith here guys.... lol

[jjdickm]

It's a piece of ****.
It's pissing me off.

Why would they put that engine in such a large car. wtf.

GODDAMNIT

Yeah I have my m20 I hate that damn car im going to have a spare m30 soon.

[CharlesAFerg]

Yeah I have my m20 I hate that damn car im going to have a spare m30 soon.

:-O Lucky bastard! :D

Genius!

[Zeuk in Oz]

It's a piece of ****.
It's pissing me off.

Why would they put that engine in such a large car. wtf.

GODDAMNIT
I beg to differ.

My M20 2.5 litre is so smooth it is almost silent.

It uses very little fuel - approx 8.5 litres per 100 km.

It has more than adequate acceleration and performance - but then mine is a manual.

I would argue that you must be very hard to please if you don't appreciate this engine. Combined with the E34 body it offers a balance and refinement not seen in many of today's cars.

It might not be the fastest thing off at the lights, but point to point it is extremely impressive.

Love mine - wouldn't swap it for a guzzling M30 for anything !

[angrypancake]

at least you don't have a 518. you would've killed yourself long ago. well that or sold the car.

[colo525i]

Drove my first M20 powered car last weekend, an e34 i was looking at with my brother. It is not as fast as the m50 2.5, but that is to be expected. They are also geared taller (i noticed lower revs at same speed in each gear) Not bad, but i cannot imagine what it'd be like with an autobox.

[ILoveMPower]

M20's are sweet man! Don't believe me? Get an '89 325is :)

[Paul in NZ]

you must remember that these cars are very old cars.There has been quite a lot of develpment on the petrol engine over the last 20 years and the m20 and m30 are from the last generation .Also European manufacturers have to manufacture cars for markets that have very specific tax brackets
/engine displacements

[3rdE34]

i personally found my 1991 525im underpowere, i noticed it more when i got my 540i lol, seriously though, i think the m20 is a good solid motor and good on fuel economy. maybe its worth considering a computor chip as an economical means of giving more power....? thank god you didnt buy an early edition e34 series 520i, thats underpowered for the/our road conditions in australia. either way stick with the e34's cheers steven

[Jehu]

Think of it this way. It would be worse if you were happy with a weak engine.Knowing you want something stronger is proof of intelligence.. its a hopeful sign. It took me a while to find what i have and took a certain level of financial commitment,I'm no high net worth individual here..Yah have to think though , these cars are getting old and whatever you find in an e34 to exchange for your anemic m20 is going to need,sooner than later, some expensive remediation.It may be time to look for an e39?

[BigKriss]

I didn't realise yours was a manual.


I beg to differ.

My M20 2.5 litre is so smooth it is almost silent.

It uses very little fuel - approx 8.5 litres per 100 km.

It has more than adequate acceleration and performance - but then mine is a manual.

I would argue that you must be very hard to please if you don't appreciate this engine. Combined with the E34 body it offers a balance and refinement not seen in many of today's cars.

It might not be the fastest thing off at the lights, but point to point it is extremely impressive.

Love mine - wouldn't swap it for a guzzling M30 for anything !

[Kobe Diesel]

I like the engine. Forged crank, rods and quality cast pistions. These are over-engineered motors. True, too small for the E34 chassis, but I have no problem doing 100mph plus. I would think it is much less expensive and easier to maintain vs. M50 or the V8's. One advantage I have with this motor is having the manual transmission. Then again, Im thinking of turbo, seriously.

[Thayne]

M20 engines are great! I had two E30s before my 540i and I love both of them. I have driven a E34 with one and they aren't that bad.

[BillionPa]

there was an S54 on ebay...

[brosher]

Hmm, I have never experienced such a problem. :p

Seriously, if it's too slow for you sell it and get another E34. The 535/5 I drove a while back was lovely. 540i if you like a little more go and a V8.

[Ross]

Didn't you drive it before you bought it? What do you expect from 2 1/2 liters lugging 3400#? with an automatic no less. and 145,000 miles, come on
When are people going to realize these aren't race cars?

[Tiger]

Think like me... Pepe LePew... even though he is a very relaxed fellow, he always catches his babe. His babe may have the fastest thing in the world, but he would always catches her at a red light... That's how I think when I drive my diesel.

[M20Turbo]

Add a turbo!

[Thayne]

Add a turbo!

There you go. This could help solve your problem. I was going to do this on my last E30 before someone hit my car and totalled it. :(

[DaveVoorhis]

How slow is slow? My M20 automatic was definitely not sluggish, but it warn't no drag racer, either. I sometimes wonder how many of the complaints about sloooow E34 M20s are due to:

Worn plugs, distributor cap, rotor, plug leads, etc.
Plugged air filter.
Oily deposits clogging the throttle body and manifold.
Mis-adjusted valves.
Other causes of non-optimal fuel or air delivery and/or ignition.
Failure to realise there's a kick-down switch -- hold down the pedal all the way and it'll shift at redline all the way up.
Unrealistic expectations, mainly because you're a so-called "stupid ****." If you expect it to behave like an American muscle car at stop lights -- because it's a BMW and someone's told you "BMWs are fast," then you are required to give your car to someone like me who appreciates what it is, and doesn't miss what it isn't. The power builds inexorably over time, like good sex; don't expect a wheel-spinning, head-pinning premature ejaculation off the line.
You or your passengers are too damn fat.

[SnakeyesTx]

I was kinda inclined to agree with people talking about 3-series with them. This motor I believe was originally tailored for the 600 pound lighter 325. I'd imagine the E34 with an M20 and slushbox is a test of a driver's patience.

[jjdickm]

My m20 is still underpowered for this car. I have a manual chip, exhaust, rebuilt head and a fairly new cooling system the engine does get good gas milage but allot of cars still can out accelerate me. I got beat by a saturn and a cavalir. So im done with that kinda ****! garret gt Turbo m30 coming your way!!!

[Blitzkrieg Bob]

That my average MPH is @ 24MPH, so it really dosen't matter...I stuck going slow anyway as I crawl through traffic.

My M20 drinks the cheap stuff, and I love to adjust valves, replace rubber band timing belts and bleed coolant.

[Ross]

27.8, we drive real fast here in Chicago. 18.8 MPG how does that compare??

[SC David]

It's definitely not the right motor for a car of this size, but thinking back to the 1980's when it was made, it's really not THAT bad. I drove a 300SEL around downtown the other day for my job, and MAN!!! That thing was slow. Like, you could floor it and it would accellerate at about the same rate as when I would just take my foot of the gas. I also drove a 190E 5 speed, a 528e, and some other cars from the same era, and gotta say that the M20 E34 is miles ahead. Even more so if you look back to Camry's and Accords of the era. It's a slow car by today's standards, but I wouldn't call it painfully slow. Sometimes I believe that it's more fun to drive a slow car fast, but most of the time I would rather be able to keep up with new econocars at the stoplights.

[SC David]

21mpg on my last tank here. 80% city, 20% highway. Not too bad for crazy city driving.

[CharlesAFerg]

M20's are sweet man! Don't believe me? Get an '89 325is :)


Oh, I know. :-D
Believe me, I know what you're talking about. Those are fun little rockets. :p

[CharlesAFerg]

Unrealistic expectations, mainly because you're a so-called "stupid ****." If you expect it to behave like an American muscle car at stop lights -- because it's a BMW and someone's told you "BMWs are fast," then you are required to give your car to someone like me who appreciates what it is, and doesn't miss what it isn't. The power builds inexorably over time, like good sex; don't expect a wheel-spinning, head-pinning premature ejaculation off the line.
You or your passengers are too damn fat.
[/LIST]


...........

I agree with the earlier points and of course I understand them. I do read the boards and the manuals.
The thing is, all that is quite wrong, except of course me being a "so called stupid ****" Did you have to mention that? :-P
lol...

That list went from intelligent to frustration really fast lol...:p

I'd have to say now that it's not that the car isn't fast, but it's just lacking adequate power for it's size... I do indeed have an auto, and I wish I had more control. I'm definately looking into a manual vehicle. At this point I could probably sell my car for more than I bought it for (about 2 years ago) due to the things I've fixed on it. Not that I would make money off of it, but it would be a very appealing buy to anyone who would be interested.

[rob101]

I didn't realise yours was a manual.
there was a time when you didn't realise mine was a manual either........
i've only even driven a 540i auto bmw
all my other bmw experiences have been manuals

[DaveVoorhis]

The thing is, all that is quite wrong, except of course me being a "so called stupid ****" Did you have to mention that? :-P
Yes. No day is complete until I've called at least three people, sometimes more, a stupid ****. I wasn't referring to you in particular, actually. I was referring to everyone, everywhere.



That list went from intelligent to frustration really fast lol...:p

An inevitable effect of having an excess of blood in my caffeine stream...


I do indeed have an auto, and I wish I had more control. I'm definately looking into a manual vehicle.
As was I until two days ago, when I swapped my '90 525iA and '87 520i for a '92 525i with a manual tranny. Unfortunately, I won't be able to put it on the road until it passes an MoT (gubmint inspection, to take place on Monday) and I get the insurance certificate in the mail.

[Anton CH.]

Why did you buy it in the first place? Apprently it wasn't slow when you bought it. Unless you race, 2.5L is more than enough in that car.

[Tiger]

Drive it in Sport Mode... the '3'

[CharlesAFerg]

Well that list that was posted is very helful as I have now started to look for those things... I know that's the problem and its also related to an idle problem as well... Sooo I'm getting that stuff fixed up first. :D
Then I'll complain ;-)
Thx guys, my faith has been restored.

[angrypancake]

put a 5lb weight in your right shoe.

[Alexlind123]

Well that list that was posted is very helful as I have now started to look for those things... I know that's the problem and its also related to an idle problem as well... Sooo I'm getting that stuff fixed up first. :D
Then I'll complain ;-)
Thx guys, my faith has been restored.

I suspected so, 15.6mpg is really alot worse than it should be

[kyleN20]

amen but keep it out of the e34

[Thayne]

Thx guys, my faith has been restored.

Yes! :D

[E34-520iSE]

Ok, so I've got a 1990 2 ltr M20 - it goes ok & tows trailers well. It's not the most powerful, pretty or economical car in the world but it's not a money pit and it does exactly what I want it to. If I wanted a fast car I'd be looking for the lightest body and a big horse power engine. If I wwant my car to go quick I know what to do!

Cheers,

Shaun

[CarloE34]

Why not put a M50 in it?;)

M20 2.0 is known as a slow car:( but it drives smooth;)
M50 2.5 is even better than a M30 3.0 and it drives as fast as a 3.5

[RobE34]

Put it in a crate and ship it to me. Then you can go buy an M5.
Is it the top speed you don't like or the rate of acceleration to get you there?
You could always tweak it a bit and get the odd 1000bhp out of it. The traction will probably suck though.;)

[wingman]

Drove my first M20 powered car last weekend, an e34 i was looking at with my brother. It is not as fast as the m50 2.5, but that is to be expected. They are also geared taller (i noticed lower revs at same speed in each gear) Not bad, but i cannot imagine what it'd be like with an autobox.

I have an M20 auto. Mine is a beautiful mile eater and a smoothe and beautiful sounding engine. If I had wanted to do boy racer things and drag guys off at the lights I would have bought an SS Holden Commodore and started smoking Winnie reds.

[Jon K]

The good news is that an M20 is cheap to turbo - you can swap in a 325E block and keep your 525i head and have a 2.7L M20, a ton of manifold are available for the turbo job and the megasquirt works beautifully with the single coil setup of an M20.

[nizmainiac]

hmmmm that sounds interesting

[Rory525]

Be glad its not a 2.0 M20 ! That had 130bhp and was shocking.

Dont think you got those in the US ? A 520i M20 auto is a mobile chicane !

[angrypancake]

Be glad its not a 2.0 M20 ! That had 130bhp and was shocking.

Dont think you got those in the US ? A 520i M20 auto is a mobile chicane !


no we were fortunate enough to not get the 520 or the 518 :)

[Jon K]

I want a 518i badge so bad

[brosher]

Lol. I've seen upbadging but never down badging. :D Maybe I should slap a 525 on the back of my car.

[Alexlind123]

If i had an m5, i would debadge it.

[E34-520iSE]

Yep - that would be good on your car - 50,000 bhp and a 518 badge on the back. Then you must drive EVERYWHERE at 20mph like an old man, until some little shoebox car races past and you gun it down LOL!

Cheers,

Shaun

[Anthony (M5 in Calgary)]

If i had an m5, i would debadge it.

Why? Nobody notices these older models anyway. I was at a gas station one day and an E39 M5 pulled in. The driver said mine must be re-badged as his was the first M5 (I'm not the only one who has experienced this). I said nothing but let the engine sound change his mind.:D

[ILoveMPower]

Why? Nobody notices these older models anyway. I was at a gas station one day and an E39 M5 pulled in. The driver said mine must be re-badged as his was the first M5 (I'm not the only one who has experienced this). I said nothing but let the engine sound change his mind.:D

Now thats what I like to hear, teach those E39 guys to keep their junk cars to themselves! :P

[Old F4 Pilot]

21mpg on my last tank here. 80% city, 20% highway. Not too bad for crazy city driving.
After reading all of the responses on this thread I must have the best 1989, 12/88 manufacture date, E34, M20, 525i auto ever built! I get 22+ mpg city and 27.5mpg hwy and that is with spirited driving, (very seldom under 75mph). Sure the E34 is a heavy car, damn near 2 tons of high-quality German steel, and only 168hp, but I think that your problem may be with an automatic transmission that shifts between 4500 & 5000 rpm, as mine does. The tranny is set to shift at, or near to the torque peak of the engine for maximum fuel efficiency and smoothness. I found out early on that to gain maximum performance out of the M20, E34, you need to manually shift the trans. I shift mine at 6200 rpm and the performance difference is astounding! If you want to pass anyone at 60~65 mph, you have to manually downshift. I hold 3rd gear to about 5000~5500 rpm and that's good for about 100 mph! My car has the 4.27:1 differential and in D, or overdrive, 3000rpm is about 80 mph. Bottom line, the M20 engine starts to "come on the cam" as you pass about 3800 rpm, up to 5800~6200 rpm. And by the way guy's, I have 316,000+ miles on my M20, E34 and it's ALL ORIGINAL! I have the Energizer Bunny, it keeps going and going and going..........

[stu1]

Man, is that the highest mileage here I wonder?

[DaveVoorhis]

The tranny is set to shift at, or near to the torque peak of the engine for maximum fuel efficiency and smoothness.
Is that with the kickdown switch engaged? When I had an M20 525i, it shifted rather conservatively with the throttle floored but the kickdown not engaged. Engage the kickdown switch, and it shifted at redline all the way up.

[Alexlind123]

And by the way guy's, I have 316,000+ miles on my M20, E34 and it's ALL ORIGINAL!


Heh...i would like to see your thrust arm bushings.

[SC David]

Is that with the kickdown switch engaged? When I had an M20 525i, it shifted rather conservatively with the throttle floored but the kickdown not engaged. Engage the kickdown switch, and it shifted at redline all the way up.
That's how my car is. I rarely use the kickdown function. Only for emergency manuevers. Just plain flooring it will get it to near redline. I don't like using the kickdown function though...the car feels too stressed out once it passes 5.5k rpms. On spirited drives I prefer to keep it in 2nd gear, which it uses all the way up to about 55mph. For around town driving, the car almost never needs to go above 4k rpms, unless I'm trying to accellerate more quickly than normal. But when I keep it above 3k rpms on spirited drives, it feels like an entirely different car. Plus the sound is AMAZING when you're getting near redline. It always reminds me of the sound in the videos of E34 M5's on the Nurburgring or other tracks.

[mamilapon]

That poor engine is going to have a hard life!!!lol

[DaveVoorhis]

That poor engine is going to have a hard life!!!lol
That's what an engine is for. Fix it, drive it, break it, repeat ad infinitum. :D

[genphreak]

Best way to make sure it is not AFM+ICV+O2 sensor etc is to rip that ol' motronic out and put in a MegaSquirt. Defiantely you will see an extra 10% in liveliness, better consumption without a doubt and you will be able to meter and adjust it. All of us will be doing this before as we realise how much more we are paying in fuel bills these days...

And if 10% is not enough, you cna then add a turbo VERY cheaply as it all the electronics are there and ready for the change. Its cheap to do too, prolly about as much as a new AFM, O2 sensor and a set of useless new tail lights.

:) Nick

[CharlesAFerg]

Probably because the previous owner didn't drive it to destruction and actually cared about it lol...



After reading all of the responses on this thread I must have the best 1989, 12/88 manufacture date, E34, M20, 525i auto ever built! I get 22+ mpg city and 27.5mpg hwy and that is with spirited driving, (very seldom under 75mph). Sure the E34 is a heavy car, damn near 2 tons of high-quality German steel, and only 168hp, but I think that your problem may be with an automatic transmission that shifts between 4500 & 5000 rpm, as mine does. The tranny is set to shift at, or near to the torque peak of the engine for maximum fuel efficiency and smoothness. I found out early on that to gain maximum performance out of the M20, E34, you need to manually shift the trans. I shift mine at 6200 rpm and the performance difference is astounding! If you want to pass anyone at 60~65 mph, you have to manually downshift. I hold 3rd gear to about 5000~5500 rpm and that's good for about 100 mph! My car has the 4.27:1 differential and in D, or overdrive, 3000rpm is about 80 mph. Bottom line, the M20 engine starts to "come on the cam" as you pass about 3800 rpm, up to 5800~6200 rpm. And by the way guy's, I have 316,000+ miles on my M20, E34 and it's ALL ORIGINAL! I have the Energizer Bunny, it keeps going and going and going..........

[525ikicker]

dont be hating the 2.5l straight 6 that car has enough to get it around and is fun to drive i bought mine after a summer. i worked real hard and paid some good cash to have Class BMW and to have Luxury

that car holds its reputation of both sporty and luxurious
comeon
not impressed?
what do u drive? a sprint car as a daily driver?

ha
chao

[CharlesAFerg]

dont be hating the 2.5l straight 6 that car has enough to get it around and is fun to drive i bought mine after a summer. i worked real hard and paid some good cash to have Class BMW and to have Luxury

that car holds its reputation of both sporty and luxurious
comeon
not impressed?
what do u drive? a sprint car as a daily driver?

ha
chao


...What??

So old!

Enthusiasts don't buy a BMW for class and luxury, it's for sport!
Enough!

[Blitzkrieg Bob]

They buy an M5

[Matt P]

No contest in maintainence department over the V8's. I've got both an M30 and M62 in the Garage. Thhe V8 *will* be sold before it hits 200K and needs another round of crazy expensive maintaince. The M30 is at 234K and is likely to still be around and inexpensive at 345K.

[John B.]

They buy an M5

Less well to do enthusiasts buy a 535i with a 5 speed.

[brick8]

The M20 in my 325ic was great. But I agree it is not enough motor for an e34 with an automatic. Even the m50 in my 525it isn't quite enough. But, I bet that is because it came with a slushbox transmission. Wish I had the time to do the 5 speed conversion. More likely, come summertime, I will sell the 525it and find a different car with a 5 speed. My bad.

[filip00]

i think the m50 engine is the best "small" engine for the 5er, because it's "new" and it has almost 200hp.