Is there any interest in MegaSquirt for the masses?

[Jon K]

I am thinking about building more MegaSquirts. So far, I have assembled units for:

My 1992 BMW 525i M50 Custom Big Turbo:
-GM DIS HEI coils, HEI unit gutted, so still a true DIS.
-GM coolant and intake (quick open element intake) temp sensors
-Stock M50 throttle position sensor
-Innovate LC-1 Wideband lambda controller

BF.C Members '93 E36 325is 2.9L Stroker Turbo Build:
-OE Coil packs in wasted spark configuration
-Testing tacho output to stock cluster
-Innovate LC-1 Wideband lambda controller

Cereal Killas (Kevin) '90 535i M30 TCD S2 Turbo:
-GM DIS HEI coils, HEI unit gutted.
-GM coolant and intake open element temp sensor
-M50 TPS retrofitted to M30 throttle body
-Innovate LC-1 Wideband lambda controller.

JJDickm's E34
-Stock distributor single coil setup
-GM coolant temp sensors

+2 or 3 other units :)

I am wondering if people are interested? For those who are unsure as to what MegaSquirt is, I can best say it as a full standalone ECU with features that are found on $3,000 units. The MegaSquirt is much more affordable - by this I mean <$700 in most cases (including the wideband controller).

Even if your car is not highly modified, turbo, or supercharged, you can still benefit from a standalone ecu. No need for a MAF or AFM means you can make your intake more efficient. No speed limiter. No revlimiter (or adjustable to whatever you want). More economic methods of spark control - accuracy is improved when performed on motors like M20 or M30 with distributor. The unit is not "plug and play" but is wired in fairly easy! The basemaps are easy to start - I have only spent a couple hours tuning my car and it runs pretty damn good!

Again, just a feeler. I hand build these units, which takes much care and attention, so if I got flooded with requests, that can prove difficult to fill. None the less, this solution is so much more complete than an SMT-6 piggyback, anything like a MAF or AFM clamp, etc., etc., etc. I know a couple people are using devices to scale their AFM and MAF signal and such and that's "ok" at best, but this is the right way to do things.

Just a feeler :)

Let me know.

[NovceGuru]

I'd like to do you Holset setup in an e30 (m30/m50 swap) in a year or two, stick around :P

NovceGuru

[Jon K]

I'll be here.

[nizmainiac]

how about one for an m20 jon?

[RobPatt]

I've no mods, save for the $179 on sale priced EAT.

1. So w/a non-modded M50TU, what can the MegaSquirt do for me, and at what cost?

2. Should the time come and I decide to put in M3's (S50B30) cams into my M50TU, I assume MS can be adjusted....

3. How does the user adjust and tweak MS? Simple PC, serial cable, and software?

I'm real pleased you're asking the question and hope you can shed some additional light. In short, YES, I "think" I'm interested.

Cheers,
Rob sends....

[Jon K]

how about one for an m20 jon?

M20 is an identical setup to an M30 - so there would be no issue there. You would be able to use stock coil/distributor setup or the GM DIS like I use.

[Jon K]

I've no mods, save for the $179 on sale priced EAT.

1. So w/a non-modded M50TU, what can the MegaSquirt do for me, and at what cost?

2. Should the time come and I decide to put in M3's (S50B30) cams into my M50TU, I assume MS can be adjusted....

3. How does the user adjust and tweak MS? Simple PC, serial cable, and software?

I'm real pleased you're asking the question and hope you can shed some additional light. In short, YES, I "think" I'm interested.

Cheers,
Rob sends....

S50 cams don't really require any software changes per se. They're just different profile - but yeah you can either tweak MS around the cams or not. The only thing is, I have yet to mess with VANOS control on the megasquirt. It has a VTEC trigger so I think it'd trigger VANOS fine, but I have a non vanos motor. The 2.9L stroker MegaSquirt I am building is a vanos car, so Iwill be testing it on that shortly.

[Dr. evil]

really interested in the unit, but for a neon sport

[Jon K]

I believe they have it compatible with the stock Neon 420a or whatever ignition system. If you want me to build you a unit Dr Evil let me know.

[Macv]

What could you do for an m60 540iA?

[Dr. evil]

It all comes down to how much money you need

[Jon K]

What could you do for an m60 540iA?

Macv - I haven't even thought about doing a V8 yet. The V8s are COP i could do it with a GM DIS 8 unit or try doing 8 coil drivers but thats getting to be a lot of coil drivers inside the megasquirt.

[Michael999]

Im interested (funds permitting at the time) in this for my M30.

Will all the parts of the system still be useable when changing the car and modifying it (such as a turbo).

I was looking to get an EAT chip but this seems far more sensible in the long run?

[Jon K]

Michael I am not sure I understand your question but let me put it this way - whether your car is stock or turbocharged, and you put a MegaSquirt on it running successfully, you will never have to change the MegaSquirt out should you add or remove a turbo or mod.

[Michael999]

okay cool, yeah that was my question :)
I wasnt sure if mods would change components/sensors in the MS.

Is it helping your fuel economy at all, or just power.

[GoldenOne]

i would be interested since i am contemplating adding boost....kinda curious now jon...so the MS can fully tune and basically remap the whole workings eh? How user friendly is the software and are you going to provide any tutorials to teach us lol??

[Booster]

You and I have talked about making me an MSnS for my turbo M50 non V car .
So this is a complete system w/WB controller and sensors ? What else does one need beside tuning time to complete this swap upgrade from your past experiance ?
Vinny:)

[attack eagle]

Jon: when the time comes where funds permit me to turbocharge the Bimmer, rest assured I'll call you for a megasquirt, and probably fly you down to visitate with us and help with MS install and setup/dyno tuning.
But that will be at least a year or so down the road.

[Macv]

Jon are you suggesting we drop our car off to you, or you prebuild and ship it to us? A buddy of mine is turbo charging an m62 and if all goes well, I'll jump into the boost scene. So it would be great to have a megasquirt system, yet I'm not sure if I could transport it to PA. (That's where you're from correct?)

[HDhandyman]

Jon,....look at the success you're having here! This is definately going to end up being an R&D feeler, perhaps for a more complete product. Maybe you can find a way to use the questions to put together a complete kit for each of the different cars, complete with install instructions, preloaded maps, and standard packaging. Maybe you could even use the money to get rolling with your a small business.

In any event, I am very interested in the M50TU option. Still, I see and read that you are constantly tuning your own car. I don't really understand half of the stuff you talk about, though I think it's cool. I would really be into this if you had a more developed "package"----no pun intended---that was a little more definative about options, presets, etc.

In short, I think that the interest is there, but we'd be really impressed if you could develope a custom kit into something that more of us could understand and play with! I mean, I've got money, I'm just scared that I wouldn't know what the **** to do with it.

[RobPatt]

...this is all really cool, and I'm interested, either in buying or as a DIY.... money not too much issue long as it's cheap (how do you like that??)... but just don't have the free time to experiment...my limits are pretty much if I can do it myself in a weekend it's all good, more than that and not feisable.

Hope that helps ident the market a bit?



Jon,....look at the success you're having here! This is definately going to end up being an R&D feeler, perhaps for a more complete product. Maybe you can find a way to use the questions to put together a complete kit for each of the different cars, complete with install instructions, preloaded maps, and standard packaging. Maybe you could even use the money to get rolling with your a small business.

In any event, I am very interested in the M50TU option. Still, I see and read that you are constantly tuning your own car. I don't really understand half of the stuff you talk about, though I think it's cool. I would really be into this if you had a more developed "package"----no pun intended---that was a little more definative about options, presets, etc.

In short, I think that the interest is there, but we'd be really impressed if you could develope a custom kit into something that more of us could understand and play with! I mean, I've got money, I'm just scared that I wouldn't know what the **** to do with it.

[aston_jag_tech]

Jon, you offered a while ago when I was asking about turbo m30 engines. Thanks alot! After seeing how your car runs Im going to build one when the time is allowed. I just got my engine last friday. So I need to swap that into my car and blueprint the original engine.
I really like the MS for the spark/ignition, MAP sensor, and tunning capabilites. Its so much more up to date than what my engine managment system is. Plus I love to tune.

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/8679/db9throttleeg2.jpg
This is from a Throttle pedal wire. At WOT, 4.0v. Now the volts should have been straight across 4.0 but what we found was a chaffed wire in the engine harness. Whats so striking about this is when the voltage would drop to 3.6 from 4.0....The computer says, whoa..!! I dont like that Im going to set you to "Limp Home Mode". We fixed the problem, blah blah. But yeah, Ever since I saw your videos of MS and your posts, I have been wanting to build. Very fun stuff. ;)

You are what you call, inspiration.

-Scott

[BigKriss]

I'm very interested. How many hours of road tuning are needed and how many hours of dyno tuning? How many hours to install the new ECU. Will you provide instructions or support though the board?

[Macv]

I'd love to be your v8 test dummy, but the distance between us makes that impossible :(

[Booster]

Lots of unanswered questions from everyone Jon.....Might want to back read and compile a listed response for us.
Man I hope this is priced right, I'd love to move forward with mine and actually drive it !:D

[Paul in NZ]

Jon what about a "dirty"m30.My car has no cat or O2 sensor as leaded petrol was the only alternative when the E34 was released here.As makrk doesnt seem to do a chip for these would a megasquirt be able to be tuned for more power?.I assume that the accuracy would result in better fuel economy/less emmisions(ie more efficient metering)

[Cereal Killa]

i would be interested since i am contemplating adding boost....kinda curious now jon...so the MS can fully tune and basically remap the whole workings eh? How user friendly is the software and are you going to provide any tutorials to teach us lol??

MS does fully tune everything, the entire Motronic can be taken out and replaced by MS. The software is very user friendly, and only takes a bit of time to learn to use.


You and I have talked about making me an MSnS for my turbo M50 non V car .
So this is a complete system w/WB controller and sensors ? What else does one need beside tuning time to complete this swap upgrade from your past experiance ?
Vinny:)
Measquirt does have the ability to controll WB and all sensors, this is what mines doing.


Jon are you suggesting we drop our car off to you, or you prebuild and ship it to us? A buddy of mine is turbo charging an m62 and if all goes well, I'll jump into the boost scene. So it would be great to have a megasquirt system, yet I'm not sure if I could transport it to PA. (That's where you're from correct?)

Jon should be able to prebuild and ship it out. He did this for a member on bf.c I believe that he's also doing some remote tuning for him, but i'm not positive.

FYI: I goto school with Jon, and we talk about MS quite frequently :)

[Thayne]

What could you do for an m60 540iA?

That would be nice! :D

[Blitzkrieg Bob]

http://www.megasquirt.info/

[Macv]

Jon should be able to prebuild and ship it out. He did this for a member on bf.c I believe that he's also doing some remote tuning for him, but i'm not positive.


If this is the case, sign me up. And make me a remote turbo kit as well.

[Jon K]

Hey guys sorry for the no response - this was mid terms week and I had a couple other small projects going on. Mainly Cereal Killas build - we've been discussing it a lot and I have been showing him what needs to be done - I think he has a good idea of what he needs to knock out this weekend wiring wise so that I can build his MS when we get back to school and tackle it. Kevin, don't forget to get that TPS from Motorsport Recycling - i found that an automatic M30 TPS would work, but just go for the M50/52 we talked about.

As to all of your questions - the idea of a pre-established kit would be great for you and me both. I could piece them together and stock them up and ship them out as needed. Because these are hand built by yours truly, they require a little lead time. Remember I am a full-time college student but my heart is in these cars so they always get priority :) I don't want to drop this on you guys as if I am ready to accept orders, but let's put it this way - once I am done Kevins car I will have developed a very safe driving base tune for an M30/M20 and have a map from my M50 that runs very well.

A couple of you have asked how many hours/dyno etc is necessary - that's the beauty in this unit - NONE. How can that be? The system uses the wideband sensor and a table of AFR ratios you assign, and it actively adjusts your fuel to match. You simply turn the car on and idle it up to temperature, then go out on a highway and drive nice and easy with "Autotune" enabled. Once you've done maybe 1 hrs of driving with autotune adjusting parameters, turn autotune off and collect 15 - 20 mins of data via datalogging. Then load that datalog thru the VE Analyzer and it will do its best to get your fuel table to line up with your AFR table. The only part not automated is the timing map, but there are Excel based calculators I use to come up with a safe timing map. I have the luxury of having a added on knock sensor that MS interfaces with and retards timing should the motor knock, but this isn't entirely necessary.

I have not done any V8s but the COP unit I built, if it works on this guys M50 stroker in GA, will be the same concept for a V8. The guy I am building that unit for wants to use his stock coils - that's fine but I'd rather build a V8 kit using a V8 wasted spark GM coil pack - if I did that, it wouldn't be a matter of "will this work" but "lets do it!" It'd basically be my ignition setup with 2 more cylinders - no science involved!

I don't have ANY idea on pricing yet guys, I just wanted to see if anyone was in any financial position to maybe be a guinnea pig on here and try it out. With megasquirt, you can tune for economy, for power, or for a medium. Right now I am aiming my cruising AFR (target AFR) at 15.0:1 for economy and when i get in boost it goes down to 11.5 ish... still working on the boost tuning but yeah its getting there :) I have spent $0 dyno tuning yet.

If any of you are SERIOUSLY interested, and have a motor without vanos (for now), let me know, and we'll see if we can work something out. This is a great unit and I'd like to see the community have it available!

[Jeff N.]

Jon - I'm interested in getting a recommended wiring map to connect an M30. I'd likely do the assemby myself. Also interested in the tool used to build the base timing maps.

Jeff

[Jon K]

Hey Jeff - I don't want to sound cold shouldered but I really can't help you wire it in much if I haven't built the unit - there are numerous steps in assembly that can alter the critical aspects of what gets wired to what and how stuff is controlled.

[Jeff N.]

...I'm just saying that if you do an M30, I'd be interested in the "lessons learned" on how to best wire in the unit and how to set the timing maps.

I've been thinking for a while that this would be a fun project to help maximize the return from the 3.7 motor; just would prefer to avoid starting from a complete blank piece of paper.




Hey Jeff - I don't want to sound cold shouldered but I really can't help you wire it in much if I haven't built the unit - there are numerous steps in assembly that can alter the critical aspects of what gets wired to what and how stuff is controlled.

[Jon K]

Jeff N- not a problem. You happen to be in luck because I am doing an M30 very soon. I am on "fall break" until tuesday, then I will start building Kevins ECU. I have him running the harness now. Once he's done, we'll be putting his car together and doing it up.

[Jeff N.]

... you going to tune it too or just build the unit?


Jeff N- not a problem. You happen to be in luck because I am doing an M30 very soon. I am on "fall break" until tuesday, then I will start building Kevins ECU. I have him running the harness now. Once he's done, we'll be putting his car together and doing it up.

[Paul in NZ]

Jon I too am interested in a M30 build,but see my earlier post,I have no o2 sensor but i guess it wouuld be relatively easy to get one added.

[Jon K]

Paul - you'd need one added just for the wideband - we don't use the stock narrow band O2 sensor for anything. My car doesn't have catalytic converters either. Wideband makes it possible to tune.

[Paul in NZ]

so a "port" added to the existing exhaust,for a sensor to be installed?Presumably the wiring is simple back to the MS?

[Jon K]

The Innovate LC-1 comes with the "bung" to be welded on. Then, its +12v switch (ign), 3 grounds, and a single wire back to the MS as O2 input. Pretty simple.

[Paul in NZ]

sounds good!
what is the ballpark US$ figure for the whole setup,ex JON K,s shop!

[genphreak]

so a "port" added to the existing exhaust,for a sensor to be installed?Presumably the wiring is simple back to the MS?Directly in the middle of the cross-pipe, just aft of the tranny.

I am on my way too, am trying to figure out how to fit my MS-II inside the eBox at the moment, the wiring won't be too hard (I bought new pigtails and will run a new 'EFI loom' that will take all the engine management signalling. The LC1 is dead easy to integrate as Jon says. But the space in the ebox is a problem, I wanted to get rid of the Motronic ECU but this isn't on, so many things other than the engine depend on it so there is no space in the ebox to put the 'squirt :(

It'd be great if more members install MS, we could share data logs and establish some benchmarks so we'd know when something is not right. At present there is no really effective way to do this. I will never think its running right until I can see that it is.

To be paranoid and think soemthing is not quite right is natural, to be overly paranoid sensible. To be normal like everyone else invites disaster to teach you something that was probably staring you in the face in the first place.


:) Nick

[Cereal Killa]

... you going to tune it too or just build the unit?

He's building then he's giving me a base tune and I'm going to be fine tuning it from there. But if theres any problems Jon should be there to help.

[Paul in NZ]

How much room do the MS units need.Iwas thinking of the space above the glovebox,i dont have a air bag there or does it need vetilation

[Jon K]

Directly in the middle of the cross-pipe, just aft of the tranny.

I am on my way too, am trying to figure out how to fit my MS-II inside the eBox at the moment, the wiring won't be too hard (I bought new pigtails and will run a new 'EFI loom' that will take all the engine management signalling. The LC1 is dead easy to integrate as Jon says. But the space in the ebox is a problem, I wanted to get rid of the Motronic ECU but this isn't on, so many things other than the engine depend on it so there is no space in the ebox to put the 'squirt :(

It'd be great if more members install MS, we could share data logs and establish some benchmarks so we'd know when something is not right. At present there is no really effective way to do this. I will never think its running right until I can see that it is.

To be paranoid and think soemthing is not quite right is natural, to be overly paranoid sensible. To be normal like everyone else invites disaster to teach you something that was probably staring you in the face in the first place.


:) Nick

You really really do not want to run MS-II

[RobPatt]

Can MS bump my hp/torque up nearer to 220 fl/lbs torque?

Background:
My stock GM tranny is rated to only approx 225ft lbs torque (IIRC).
W/the M50TU and EAT I "guess" I'm at about 200.
Don't want to change trannys, etc, etc yet.

Thanks and good luck in school, just started my MS and it's a PITA!
Rob sends....

[dbals]

Jon,
I have a supercharged M60/6 that I would love to put a MS in once you get them going. I have to put a clutch and new diff in as well as a few other projects over the winter so it would be spring or summer and that would be if your ready. Either way just add me to the list of M60 owners and maybe the only one on the list for s/c m60 owners and keep me in mind. I would like to do something when your ready.

Thx
-Drew

[Booster]

You and I have talked about making me an MSnS for my turbo M50 non V car .
So this is a complete system w/WB controller and sensors ? What else does one need beside tuning time to complete this swap upgrade from your past experiance ?
Vinny:)
I've been mentioning this for awhile to you.I'm not sure if I just don't show up to you ??lol.:p I realize you have a life also to deal with.
Anyway.....I've got my manifold and a Garrett T/3-T/4 waiting for this very thing.I would think you and I would require the same componets and wiring( although I'm keeping the AC,you didn't)...thats it.
My HP goals are simply to take the car to its LIVING threshold of power for its stock internals for now. SO ..NO 15-20 psi levels for me, in other words.
I guess my next Q is.....what will you NOT provide in this kit ??
What will I need to source beyond what you send ??
Thanks..........Vinny:)

[Jon K]

Jon,
I have a supercharged M60/6 that I would love to put a MS in once you get them going. I have to put a clutch and new diff in as well as a few other projects over the winter so it would be spring or summer and that would be if your ready. Either way just add me to the list of M60 owners and maybe the only one on the list for s/c m60 owners and keep me in mind. I would like to do something when your ready.

Thx
-Drew


Drew, if you don't care about using the OEM coil packs you could be the first V8 I do. I have a GM coil pack that will work perfectly with your motor, i'd be willing to take on your car if you were.

[Jon K]

I've been mentioning this for awhile to you.I'm not sure if I just don't show up to you ??lol.:p I realize you have a life also to deal with.
Anyway.....I've got my manifold and a Garrett T/3-T/4 waiting for this very thing.I would think you and I would require the same componets and wiring( although I'm keeping the AC,you didn't)...thats it.
My HP goals are simply to take the car to its LIVING threshold of power for its stock internals for now. SO ..NO 15-20 psi levels for me, in other words.
I guess my next Q is.....what will you NOT provide in this kit ??
What will I need to source beyond what you send ??
Thanks..........Vinny:)


Booster - this question towards me? You quoted someone else.

Any kit I offer will be fully customizable and built to your order. If you want wideband, etc, i can add it all in. If not, and you want a base unit, I can do that too.

[dbals]

Drew, if you don't care about using the OEM coil packs you could be the first V8 I do. I have a GM coil pack that will work perfectly with your motor, i'd be willing to take on your car if you were.

Jon,
Im game. Dont give a **** if its an oem coil pack or not, long as it works. I have to check but I dont think my car has stock M60 packs on it anyway, or at least I was told it didnt. Have to do plugs soon anyway so I will check. I have a list of projects going on with the car at the moment so no hurry....but I am very, very, very interested so let me know when it works for you and we can give it a go.
-drew