OT _ But I am stuck, so COMPUTER guys please look here!

[SharkmanBMW]

pentium 4
1.6g
512 ram
windows xp
This belongs to my girlfriend who is a student, so I need to get it running asap!

it was running great for a year, now it is acting up...

upon bootup - everything works normally, fast and "normal" but then within 5 minutes after bootup, there will be an audible "click" from the tower and the screen will flash quickly and then everything is frozen, ctrl alt delete does nothing. it needs to be reset.

upon rebooting, the same will happen... s works for a minute ... sometimes there is no click and no flash of the screen, but it freezes just the same.

in general, the computer works properly except for this! there are no other symptoms.

I have done a system restore (just in case) and it did nothing.


what is the problem?!?!?!

Power supply is my guess, but I know nothing!
THanks

[calmloki]

Power supply was my guess as well

[pundit]

"... Power supply is my guess..."
Sounds like it.

[smcgowan]

The cpu cooling fan. If the cpu is overheating it can do exactly what your describing.

[Spasso]

System overheat breaker.

This is why I just pack it up and take it to the guy that built mine in the first place. Pentium 4, 80GB, 768 RAM etc.....

He knows the machine, knows what I use it for and how I like it set up. Once a year I give it to him for a couple of hours, toss him 50.00 for the tune up and it's like I have a new computer when I get it home. He has been really good with the warranty stuff too.

I wish it was that easy with my car...................................

[SnakeyesTx]

Fans! Look in there and make sure they're working, not binding, turning slow, etc.

Did you try safe mode?

I'd start with the usual suspects like hard drive failure and registry issues.

You could get Registry Mechanic and scan it and see if there's any errors there causing a collision of sorts. Also there's benchmark programs out there that can test your ram, video, and cpu and hard drives.

If it were the power supply, there's a good chance it would reboot the machine after the click or blink off completely in spikes.

[SharkmanBMW]

there is only one extra fan in there... plus whatever is on the cpu... maybe it is stuck... I will check it out.

good info guys, thanks!

additional suggestions welcome!

BTW I did all the reg cleaning and a system restore even... nada!
It is hardware for sure!

[spyrot1]

Sounds like it's overheating... most likely the CPU fan is bad or the fan in the power supply has stopped. Run it with the case open and check to see if the fan is working.

[Randell]

i've never seen a power supply act intermittently, it's usually either fine or it's smokin...

the click may be from the hard disk.. when they hit a problem they usually freeze the whole machine.. i got a seriously loud click from a hard disk when i touched the 12v and 5v rails together while the computer was on...

have you run a chkdsk on it? go start - run and type 'chkdsk /f', it'll run a series of checks on your hard disk, the /f parameter tells windows to try and fix any errors it finds, though if it's a physical problem with the disk you're kinda stuffed

actually you probably won't get through the check if your machine is freezing every 5 mins! in which case.. you need another computer and start swapping parts in and out, or take it to a shop...

[Fetch]

overheating/psu/hard drive are all very likely based on symptoms.

I am leaning towards power supply because of the click sound and otherwise normal operation. Like others said, hard drives also click when dieing.

[Digita1 Ecstasy]

Your HD is dead, or soon to be. They dont last very long anyway. CPU fans dont click and cause the computer to freeze, lol. And if it was a overheating problem the PC usually reboots itself(based on your BIOS settings). I suggest buying a new HD asap and try transfering all your info from the old one to the new one before its totally bust.

[Yiorgos]

When opening your girlfriend's machine up, have a vacuum cleaner handy with a hose. There will be a lot of built up dust and other **** in there. I have seen many PCs that appeared to have broken, only to open them up and see that there's so much dust and other crap in there that it would prevent the fans from moving freely.

If that doesn't work, and if you replace the power supply and are still having problems, I would say it's the hard drive on it's way out. Try running the machine with the case open/off for a while until that click sounds again, and try to find out where it's coming from.

[bigtisas]

The 1.6g hard drive looks pretty old and most likely the problem. Try another hard drive first. Second thing could be wrong will be CPU overheat. CPU overheat always gets you a unstable system and hangs within minutes.

[E34-520iSE]

1.6Gb H/d? A new, bigger drive and a fresh install of Windoze and, as long as the PSU and memory is in good order, it'll run well. Back in the days of Noah I have had to replace a handful of P2 power supplies. After a couple of years use they had a tendency to refuse to switch on. I don't think that's your problem here though. Are you trying to power too many devices from a feeble PSU? Some 'older' PC's have been upgraded with 2x H/D's, 2x 5 1/4" drive bay devices, different motherboards, fans etc without giving the poor old power supply a second thought. I hope you get it sorted out soon though. I'm glad I don't have to use a PC any more - for me they were more trouble than they were worth!

Cheers,

Shaun

[Airborne001]

You could get Registry Mechanic and scan it and see if there's any errors there causing a collision of sorts.
Don't load anything else to the machine, as this is correct

actually you probably won't get through the check if your machine is freezing every 5 mins! in which case..



Try another hard drive first
I would wait to check the cheaper/free things first before replacing drives.




The machine will develop the same heat in any mode, so go into the motherboard CMOS properties upon boot up and find the temprature readings. By simply leaving this screen open you can see if the chip or motherboard is over heating. If it slowly climbs after about 2 mins running til it shuts down, get a new,bigger, heatsink fan for the chip and that should fix it. If the new fan does not fix it, you may have a chip that is going bad. I have see chips that glow in a lowly lit room they get so hot.

If the CMOS does not show a rise in temp, the you can be pretty sure it is your power supply. If you have to replace that, get one that is rated considerably more watts than you have, and get a few different kinds of fans to move air into and out of the machine. Just remember to look at where the machine is located, and set the fans to move cold air in the bottom, and hot air out the top, keeping in mind that if you have the machine tucked in a little cubby, you are going to have to vent the heat out the front.



Heat is your enemy, always.

[BillionPa]

first find out exactly what that click is.

if its the hdd, it could be the thing turning off, which is actually a good thing for when you need to reboot the system. if its just a loud click from the hdd, but its still spinning, its toast.

the click can also be the system board speaker doing its thing, or god forbid the psu.... if thats making clicking noises, have a fire extinguisher handy.

the flashing screen is generally indicitave of a power irregularity, which could be caused by the hdd or faulty capacitors on the system board.... that click isnt a capacitor boiling is it!??!??!.....

i reiterate, have a fire extinguisher handy.

[632 Regal]

Exactly, I have to clean my fans and cpu heatsink every 2 months, if I go 4 months it will lock up same as you describe.


When opening your girlfriend's machine up, have a vacuum cleaner handy with a hose. There will be a lot of built up dust and other **** in there. I have seen many PCs that appeared to have broken, only to open them up and see that there's so much dust and other crap in there that it would prevent the fans from moving freely.

[skr]

why is everyone neglecting software? any viruses lately? sometimes RPC vulnerability infections can cause sudden shut-downs if something got seriously fukd up. DID YOU TRY RUNNING IT IN DOS? if not, go to www.bootdisk.com, make a dos boot disk and boot it in dos. if it doesn't freeze anymore, do a clean xp install. system restore is worthless.

[SharkmanBMW]

The 1.6g hard drive looks pretty old and most likely the problem. Try another hard drive first. Second thing could be wrong will be CPU overheat. CPU overheat always gets you a unstable system and hangs within minutes.


sorry for misleading anyone... it is a 40gig HD, and the cpu is a 1.6gig!

sometimes it does reboot instaed of freezing, sometimes freezes.

I will open it tomorrow and check fans and run it with door open to see what clicks - if anything!

The power supply on this pc is old and used to power a P2 - now is trying to run a P4 with one fan, so it may be getting hotttt!

I will check the temp in the bios, good tip

Thanks guys!
will advise!

[azale]

We need more info: How pretty is your girlfriend? Is all this trouble worth it?

I've had bad hard drives but I never had the screen "flash." I think XP can sit there doing nothing even if you remove the hard drive.

If it's an over-heating CPU the heat sink will either be very hot or very cold (if it's not touching the CPU at all).

My bet is the power supply. If you use a computer, you will have to replace a power supply. I just hope the power supply didn't affect the motherboard. Of course, it sounds like she is due for a little upgrade anyway.

Let us know.

[Yiorgos]

Better idea -- throw everything out and get a Mac. Macs never break down! ;)

This post was created using a Mac

[Chris'91'525i]

I have to clean my fans and cpu heatsink every 2 months, if I go 4 months it will lock up same as you describe.


It's about every 6 months for me........I'm thinking of installing a K&N filter on mine :D
God damn fur balls from my cat clog the intake !!!!

[Alexlind123]

i've never seen a power supply act intermittently, it's usually either fine or it's smokin...

the click may be from the hard disk.. when they hit a problem they usually freeze the whole machine.. i got a seriously loud click from a hard disk when i touched the 12v and 5v rails together while the computer was on...

have you run a chkdsk on it? go start - run and type 'chkdsk /f', it'll run a series of checks on your hard disk, the /f parameter tells windows to try and fix any errors it finds, though if it's a physical problem with the disk you're kinda stuffed

actually you probably won't get through the check if your machine is freezing every 5 mins! in which case.. you need another computer and start swapping parts in and out, or take it to a shop...

My PS was bad, and it caued myg computer to crash a few times a day beofre i replaced it. I store all my important files on a separate server, so it didnt really hamr me though.

[alpinaracerX]

Its your PSU or HDD, sounds like it could be either. Try the Power Supply first since its usually cheaper.
Do you have more than one cd rom hooked up? could be your drawing too many watts from the PSU and its over heating.
You'll be able to tell if its over heating though. It will get very very hot... and stay hot for awhile.

Also, when it does freeze, have the case open and hold your hand on the harddrive, you can feel if its running or not, it'll vibrate, just make sure not to have a static shock or anything like that.

[nmwaldron]

Sounds to me more like a problem with the heatsink on the processor..I had that problem with an older system of mine, would work for a couple of seconds and then die. I picked up a new heatsink fan and new thermal paste and that fixed it. If it was the power supply, it would more than likely just not turn on at all.

Hope this helps some and good luck.

Nathan

[nmwaldron]

Sounds to me more like a problem with the heatsink on the processor..I had that problem with an older system of mine, would work for a couple of seconds and then die. I picked up a new heatsink fan and new thermal paste and that fixed it. If it was the power supply, it would more than likely just not turn on at all.

Hope this helps some and good luck.

Nathan.

[SharkmanBMW]

UPDATE:
I removed the side door and cleaned the large amount of dust out of the heatsink and fan, and the fans on the PS (which is an Antec 430).

It is now running after 20 minutes with the side open and defragging the HDD, so it looks good, but we'll know once the door goes back on... if i put it on, this computer sits in a cubby hole with air in front and back, so an open side would not really bring in more dust.
thanks for all the input

[SharkmanBMW]

UPDATE #2:

Of course I posted too soon...
halfway through a disk defrag, the machine started wailing a siren or alarm of some kind... it still worked, but after a reboot, it stuck on the welcome screen!

Any ideas now?!
it was running great there for 30 minutes!!

:( :( :(

[nmwaldron]

UPDATE #2:

Of course I posted too soon...
halfway through a disk defrag, the machine started wailing a siren or alarm of some kind... it still worked, but after a reboot, it stuck on the welcome screen!

Any ideas now?!
it was running great there for 30 minutes!!

:( :( :(

Still have a feeling it has something to do with the processor getting too hot and a faulty heatsink..but with the freezing, could be a harddrive issue also.
Hard drives don't make beeps or squeel though...as far as I know :)

Nate

[BillionPa]

the wailing alarm is the defacto cpu thermal overload alarm....

replace cpu hsf.

[SharkmanBMW]

the wailing alarm is the defacto cpu thermal overload alarm....

replace cpu hsf.

thanks for the responses guys...

When I took the heat sink and fan off the cpu, the bond came apart (obviously)
and I just cleaned it & snapped them back together, everything seemed fine, fan was fine... heat sink clear of debris...

are you saying I need a new heat sink and fan or a new cpu alltogether??

[BillionPa]

just the heatsink fan with quality thermal grease such as AS5

[azale]

thanks for the responses guys...

When I took the heat sink and fan off the cpu, the bond came apart (obviously)
and I just cleaned it & snapped them back together, everything seemed fine, fan was fine... heat sink clear of debris...

are you saying I need a new heat sink and fan or a new cpu alltogether??
If the CPU is not fried (and it may be) you just need to make sure you have a clean heatsink and a good fan. Back in the day you could just rest the heatsink on the processor but in recent years they have put some thermal grease or thermal glue on the heatsink to help the heatsink stay put. It has to be thermal glue because it must not insulate the processor. CPU's put out *tons* of heat. That heat has to be dissipated.

The 'alarm' you heard definitely sounds like an overheat issue but why wasn't it going off before? I still think it could be a power supply or mobo issue.

If you had a buddy in the area with a similar computer you could hot swap to find out what part was bad.

To test a faulty hard drive issue, you could pull it out and let the computer run for a while to see if it locked up.

For the power supply test, my brother picked up a cheap power supply to test his and he returned it later. Just make sure the return policy is good and don't trash the receipt.

If the heatsink is not hot, it is either not touching the cpu (Heatsink would be cold) or the CPU is not over heating (and the heatsink would just be warm).

holla back

[632 Regal]

my machines are sporting this fan...looks like some pretty new ones are looking even better now...

http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=1259

[HIe34]

I would also check the memory. Pull each stick and restart the computer. Sometimes bad memory can cause issues. Especially if you don't hear the clicking sound all the time.

[Zeppa]

Definatly sounds like a bad stick of ram , thermal overload would shut the system down (it wouldnt hang) . Do as previous post suggests and try 1 stick of ram at a time .

[Alpinewhite]

Open the side cover and remove hard disk, floppy, cd/dvd rom drive, etc., Just have the bare minimum to isolate and identify the problem.

Just have the CPU(with fan & heat sink), RAM and power supply connected connected. Enter BIOS setup and wait for what ever time. If needed close the side cover to get normal operational air circulation. See if it hangs up at all. If it doesn't its probably not heating issue.

When you are in BIOS setup
- disable quiet boot if applicable (This will remove the splash logo during boot time)
- disable fast boot if applicable (this might do full memory check)
- enable full memory test if applicable (this will do full memory check)

Reboot many times and see if the system does full memory test. If memory is bad then it will report or hang during memory test.

Another easy way is to run good hardware diagnostics / trouble shooting software like AMI diag. Some one you know might have a copy of it.

hope this helps.

Arun