OT - Maybe I'm missing something here?

[pundit]

The U.S. (along with its coalition partners, Britain and Australia) invaded Iraq using the pretext that Iraq had WMD and was iminantly going use them... Tony Blair stated that Iraq could launch a WMD strike within 45 minutes.

If the Iraq invasion was justified (at the time) on WMD grounds then why not North Korea which has been making noises for years about acquiring and using WMD?

[rob101]

The U.S. (along with its coalition partners, Britain and Australia) invaded Iraq using the pretext that Iraq had WMD and was iminantly going use them... Tony Blair stated that Iraq could launch a WMD strike within 45 minutes.

If the Iraq invasion was justified (at the time) on WMD grounds then why not North Korea which has been making noises for years about acquiring and using WMD?

China

[Blitzkrieg Bob]

the support and wealth to do anything with their program, except to ultimately alienate what few allies they have and implode under the weight of their military and their new found atomic white elephant.

[Blitzkrieg Bob]

They are about ready to Bitch slap ol' Kim for playing with Nukes in their backyard.

[Jimbo]

the support and wealth to do anything with their program, except to ultimately alienate what few allies they have and implode under the weight of their military and their new found atomic white elephant.

I agree with both Rob and Bob.

China hugely complicates the whole North Korea thing, if it weren't for China we would have taken over the North back in 1950. However, North Korea simply does not have anything resembling a sustainable economy, if China starts backing some of the sanctions against the North it is only a matter of time before they collapse in one way or another.

To me North Korea is one of the biggest jokes in the world, its just too bad its people have to suffer so much and its psychotic leader has to make this world just a little bit less safe of a place to live in.

As for Iraq, I wish we would have just finished the job back in 1991 and avoided all this mess :(

[Elekta]

37,000 US soldiers south of the dmz. 2 million north Ko's. Albright got fooled. China...a mulitude of reasons.

Why we let the Russians cart off all that WMD before the invasion we'll never know. Meanwhile, while the rest of the planet hates the US, Putin is slowly silencing his critics KGB style...2 bullets to the head.

And we would have had North Korea in a month, but Truman fired MacArthur

[Blitzkrieg Bob]

As for Iraq, I wish we would have just finished the job back in 1991 and avoided all this mess :(

Knew too well what a mess Iraq would be, left it alone.

[The Bigfella]

And we would have had North Korea in a month, but Truman fired MacArthur

All MacArthur was good for was self agrandisement

[Zeuk in Oz]

I also agree with Rob, Bob & Jimbo. China !

The delicious irony, however, is that the only nation in the world to have used nuclear weapons in anger is trying to stop other nations from having the same.

I know, I know - North Korea and Iran are the bad guys. I must say, however, I would probably classify George W in the same lot these days, as his foreign policies have nothing to do with diplomacy.

Imagine, however, if North Korea had oil ! :D

Every congressman or woman with children should have at least 1 of their children serving in Iraq. I predict then that the US presence in Iraq would last a matter of a few days.

[mamilapon]

I really wish the North Koreans had some oil somewhere...anywhere!!

[pingu]

Quote: Every congressman or woman with children should have at least 1 of their children serving in Iraq. I predict then that the US presence in Iraq would last a matter of a few days.

Yup, and same for Tony Blair too!

[Airborne001]

All MacArthur was good for was self agrandisement
Sure.... he only orchestrated the landings at Inchon, and successfully led the breakout that casued the chinese to become so concerned that they sent 100,000 troops into the line to save the north. Please don't talk about what you don't know, my father was overrun by the chinese in that assault, and spent 3 years in a POW camp.


To me North Korea is one of the biggest jokes in the world
The joke may be on them, Japan was already discussing modifying it's constitution to allow the creation of "projection of power" military forces. Kim may have made that reality a foregone conclusion now. Japan has more to lose than anyone in the area, and the sea of Japan gives them good protection against Kim's army (I don't think they swim well). Japans ability to defend itself in modern day vs. WWII era are enormous. They actually had very little industry for that time, and we all know their manufacturing capabilities now.


Every congressman or woman with children should have at least 1 of their children serving in Iraq
A few do, but since we live in a FREE society where we do not force military service on anyone, they would have to volunteer like everyone else.

[genphreak]

The UN can only protect Japan from agressors else it will upset the region's power mongers. China and Russia would freak if it felt that US troops were moving in without just cause (even with WMDs). Russia wasn't happy about Bush's mates' games in the middle east, but it wasn't prepared to fight an International PR battle, risk destabilising things everywhere, or loose so much in order to gain so little. Russia and China may not care too much for Kim and his cronies but they will care a heck of a lot about the potential political and radioactive fallout from any overt and provocative action in the region.

North Korea knows it has the leeway and is using it to buy more influence. It has been losing every year that the US keeps its presence in the region, not to mention the neighbouring empires swelling as they destroy their countries in the mad rush to export anything they can to the rest of the world, feed their populations and earn USD. They know they have to make a few bold moves to regain their ability to negotiate with their neighbours and grow (or just survive).

[632 Regal]

look at all the BS I miss when my shits f'ud up

[JD525IA]

I also agree with Rob, Bob & Jimbo. China !

The delicious irony, however, is that the only nation in the world to have used nuclear weapons in anger is trying to stop other nations from having the same.


....because what you are spouting is just that. It's too bad you don't know what you are talking about. I love the way that countries that the U.S. basically saved in WWII are continuously badmouthing (especially France, and now it appears Australia) the U.S. How would you like to be eating rice or kraut and speaking German or Japanese. Used nukes in anger....hell, do you have any idea how much Truman anguished over doing it? Of course you don't! Do you have any idea that the Nazi's were in fact in the process of creating their own nuclear weapons? Try watching the History channel or the Discovery channel (or studying history) and learning something before making inaccurate and ignorant statements.

FYI - North Korea has just made the statement that any further sanctions will be considered an act of war. Kim wants to bully the world into comming to the table. Another crazy man who needs a bullet in his head. Is that angry thinking?

[granit_silber]

I also agree with Rob, Bob & Jimbo. China !

The delicious irony, however, is that the only nation in the world to have used nuclear weapons in anger is trying to stop other nations from having the same.


Is it irony or the realization of how horrible that act was?
-ashley

[zman-95-540i]

The WMD in Iraq thing was obvious BS. Therefore you can't apply that as a valid reason to invade N. Korea. If we actually believed there were WMD in Iraq then we have some SERIOUS intelligence problems. Now, the fact that most Americans and Congressmen believed that there were WMD in Iraq proves that we (US citizens) have serious intelligence problems.

[Bill R.]

Australia declared itself an ally to England in 1939 when the war first broke out and then declared war on Japan as an ally to us on the same day that we did. So i wouldn't say that we saved the Australians, I would think of it as a joint effort.
Next , we wouldn't have been eating rice or kraut anyway, since the Germans were already in sad shape and the japanese already knew they were going to lose too, just holding out to negotiate a better surrender status. The Germans were nowhere near developing their own atomic weapons and neither were the Japanese. Here's some info regarding that (http://www.nuclearfiles.org/menu/educators/study-guides/history_decision-to-drop-bomb.htm)

Used in anger is a common turn of phrase , you'll find it in many history books describing the event.

Why is it if any country disagrees with us they are bad mouthing us? Last time i checked France was correct in their claims before Iraq and we were wrong. And I notice that congress has now officially taken the name freedom fries back and they are now called French fries in the caffeteria at Congress;)




....because what you are spouting is just that. It's too bad you don't know what you are talking about. I love the way that countries that the U.S. basically saved in WWII are continuously badmouthing (especially France, and now it appears Australia) the U.S. How would you like to be eating rice or kraut and speaking German or Japanese. Used nukes in anger....hell, do you have any idea how much Truman anguished over doing it? Of course you don't! Do you have any idea that the Nazi's were in fact in the process of creating their own nuclear weapons? Try watching the History channel or the Discovery channel (or studying history) and learning something before making inaccurate and ignorant statements.

FYI - North Korea has just made the statement that any further sanctions will be considered an act of war. Kim wants to bully the world into comming to the table. Another crazy man who needs a bullet in his head. Is that angry thinking?

[Elekta]

I wouldn't over rate MacArthur's success at all with a jab at his enormous ego. Had he been a little more selfless, the two koreas would be one and China would be bowing to them and Japan. Had he been able to cross the 39th, things would have been a whole lot different today...much like HW Bush caving to Riyadh left Iraq unsettled, and Nixon leaving millions to be slaughtered in Cambodia/NVNam. You see, it really is about finishing the job, no matter how the war got started, or who started it for that matter.

MacArthur had a little Clinton in him, in that he knew he what he was doing was right, he was hyper talented at his job, but still couldn't help himself. It's a shame he clashed so hard with Truman...

[rob101]

....because what you are spouting is just that. It's too bad you don't know what you are talking about. I love the way that countries that the U.S. basically saved in WWII are continuously badmouthing (especially France, and now it appears Australia) the U.S. How would you like to be eating rice or kraut and speaking German or Japanese. Used nukes in anger....hell, do you have any idea how much Truman anguished over doing it? Of course you don't! Do you have any idea that the Nazi's were in fact in the process of creating their own nuclear weapons? Try watching the History channel or the Discovery channel (or studying history) and learning something before making inaccurate and ignorant statements.

Its ironic that one firestorm in tokyo killed more people than either of the atomic bombs. It is estimated that the raid which was conducted on march 10 1945 killed 100 000 people.
PS: you do know the russians won the war in europe, don't you?
And I suppose you don't know about kokoda either.
but then again I don't have the discovery or history channels so......... what would I know ;)

[Evan]

you're either with us or against us mission accomplished and gays can't get married because it would mean people will start to marry their pets and yeah... so.


keep your politics and egos to yourselves... unless one of you is a non-card-carrying member of the peasantry and happens to have insight into the way things have worked in the world since god or darwin or whomever placed us here...

go mets!

[Zeuk in Oz]

....because what you are spouting is just that. It's too bad you don't know what you are talking about. I love the way that countries that the U.S. basically saved in WWII are continuously badmouthing (especially France, and now it appears Australia) the U.S. How would you like to be eating rice or kraut and speaking German or Japanese. Used nukes in anger....hell, do you have any idea how much Truman anguished over doing it? Of course you don't! Do you have any idea that the Nazi's were in fact in the process of creating their own nuclear weapons? Try watching the History channel or the Discovery channel (or studying history) and learning something before making inaccurate and ignorant statements.

FYI - North Korea has just made the statement that any further sanctions will be considered an act of war. Kim wants to bully the world into comming to the table. Another crazy man who needs a bullet in his head. Is that angry thinking?

I assure you I am not badmouthing the US. What I was trying to suggest was that I think you have a fool for a president, much as I think Australia's Prime Minister John Howard and Britain's Prime Minister Tony Blair are also fools when it come to foreign policy. Their countries' presence in Iraq proves it, in my opinion.

I was also not critising that the US used nuclear weapons in WWII, I was merely pointing out that the US (and others who think themselves free, open democracies) always get their knickers in such a knot when smaller, non-democratic contries "get the bomb".

I am not saying I disagree with them, I was just pointing out the irony of the situation. It is also ironic, in my opinion, that the election of your US President is probably one of the least democratic election processes in the free world.

I would also suggest that Kim Jong-Il suffers from a medical condition common to many dictators and despots - acute lead deficiency - and a bullet to the head fixes it every time. I do think, however, that China will use all its power to keep Mr Kim under some sort of control, and if they don't, as has been said, Russia will.

Perhaps next time before taking such grave offence, you might consider that there are opinions other than yours and not every non-American hates the US.

Perhaps the real issue is that when you get to my age you get so sick and tired of unnecessary bloodshed in the name of religion/democracy/freedom/ (take your pick) that you get tired of national leaders who think they have the right to invade and conquer at will.

Not much has changed since the crusades !

As for sprouting ****, if that is what you think this is, so be it. You have every right to your opinion.

[pundit]

I really wish the North Koreans had some oil somewhere...anywhere!!
Bingo!