Tranny Work?

[BFEINZIMER]

(From my other thread)...to be able to get more of a clear answer...

Ok so I just came from the tranny shop...

The diagnosis he gave me:

"FLUID BURNT, SLIPS IN ALL FORWARD GEARS. CODE 27 PRESENT"

Now I asked if this code 27 was from the tranny computer or the engine computer, he said engine...but what is 27? He explained to me that if you rev it high enough (which he showed me) the computer picks up the fact that your appling alot of power, but your going nowhere (no speed), so it displayes TRANS PROGRAM as a result of that...and thats the Code 27.....?

Anyways, he gave me a quote of $650 USD to to give it an autopsy, and a MAX price of $2450 (including the $650) to do a rebuild. So does eveything sound? Legit..?
__________________

[632 Regal]

already gave my 2c

go for a used one, about 50% of rebuilds are crap off the get go...

[BFEINZIMER]

icic, but like i said doesent that make it better with the warrenty? how would i know the quality of the used tranny? and anyways it might not require a complete rebuild...im off to work please everyone give your input thanks jeff

[swenpro]

Just make sure the rebuild is done with the proper kit. Kirt Koeller told me the kit alone to rebuild my ZF 5hp30 tranny costs $1700, so if someone is quoting cheaper they're making it up. His pricing with install can be found here (http://www.autosportsunlimited.com/trans.html).

[Kalevera]

Get the factory reman, have a reputable german shop install it, you don't want AAMCO rebuilding a ZF transmission. Even Mike Miller writes this to the clowns who submit questions to Roundel, and for a good reason.

You don't want an autopsy, anyway -- you want it fixed. $650 is practically half of the dealer's cost on the factory reman. Spent to have this guy tell you something you already know. At 140k, it probably hasn't had a fluid/filter change in 10 years, best bet is to just start over.

Used is not a bad idea if the seller gives you a bit of a warranty so you can get the thing in the car and find out if it works. And there are tons of used ones floating around for little money....heck, I have one sitting in a crate.

[BFEINZIMER]

Well if he does the rebuild he said it it would be a max of $2450, with the parts (including his autospoy)...which he said could reveal that it may not need a complete rebuild...though think this:

I have a ZF4HP22/24 (elec.), which is listed as 1695.00 for the price of parts..., so subtract his 650 labor from the 2450 max, that comes to 1800, just 200 above the 1695...so the #'s make sense...he seems to know his stuff (website:http://www.leonstransmission.com/) he was able to name my 4HP24 off the bat when I was just telling him about the car, and he had a few beemers in the lot...but I'll question him on the exact price of parts from auto sports unlimited, and other stuff...but what do you guys think about the $650 to tkae it apart and check it out? Overpriced? I need to tell him whats up tomorrow, hes keeping it in the lot for me as its not even in full limp mode, its slipping in all forward gears TERRIBLY and has almost NO power, so basically I can only drive it in reverse...so anotherwords I havta tow it anywhere it needs to go from now on.

[Ross]

$2450 will buy you a running car. Way too much to o/haul the ZF box.

[632 Regal]

ditto
$2450 will buy you a running car. Way too much to o/haul the ZF box.

[JMI]

For what it's worth:

Code 27 (http://www.bimmer.info/forum/showthread.php?t=23319)

Had "Trans Program", limp mode, and the code. Would clear briefly when shuting off/restarting. Had none of your other problems.

Good luck.

[BFEINZIMER]

Well the $2450 would be a complete rebuild, the MAX price. Don't forget that includes his $650 autopsey (diagnosis)...so the $2450 TOTAL MAX seems reasonable, but what about that $650, to open it up? Does that sound far...and he was telling me that it might not even neeed a complete rebuild, and it could be less than the $2450...but should I trust that, or do you think he'll open it up fro the $650 and just tell me in needs a rebuild...and with the Code 27, he explained it to me as that the computer sees I'm revving the engine high, with no speed output, so thats why it displays TRANS PROGRAM, which he demonstrated to me yesterday...

[Ross]

The fluid is toast and no forward drive. You need all the clutches and steel rings and seals, minimum. The trans is junk if you need many hard parts. That'll be $650 please.
Find someone who does ZF boxes on a regular basis or buy an overhauled unit. The r&r is no big deal.
Don't get f'ed. If you agree to $2450 it will be $2450!

[BFEINZIMER]

The fluid is toast and no forward drive. You need all the clutches and steel rings and seals, minimum. The trans is junk if you need many hard parts. That'll be $650 please.
Find someone who does ZF boxes on a regular basis or buy an overhauled unit. The r&r is no big deal.
Don't get f'ed. If you agree to $2450 it will be $2450!

So far I've aggred to let him do the $650 labor/inspection...I need the car back up...and he seems liek thebest in this area...so I mean I'm just asking, does it SOUND liek I'm getting screwed?

[bigfoot]

No tranny shop is going to give you an exact estimate until they pull the tranny and look at it. That usually costs $300 to $500 depending on the model and make vehicle. After they pull it and look at it you should get a firm estimate of total rebuild cost. The pull and relace cost (autopsy) is what you pay if you don't get it fixed, and its always part of the total cost of rebuild if you have the work done. $650 does not sound way out of line for the rci, since the exhaust system has to come off to get to the tranny and it includes the time breaking down and looking at the tranny and coming up with a repair estimate. Sounds like the $2450 covers the replacing of all soft parts. I'm assuming they have diagnostically eliminated solennoid and other external electrical problems or mounting issues. Make sure you ask if the price covers any hard parts, like gears or pump, and if price includes fluid and torque converter. $2450 for total rebuild with all soft parts does not sound out of line if he has a good rebuilder. Warranty is probably cost specific, so if you get a lifetime warranty with the job you are probably not getting screwed. Get BMW customers references and call them. Generally I would think the RCI for that tranny would be about $350-450 and complete soft part overall with converter (rebuilt) would be in the $2000 dollar range, making it about a $2450 job, depending on warranty (should be lifetime) or about $2000 for 1 year warranty. Call around and see what others would charge, although they are going to resist quoting over the phone.

[barry 90 525i]

buy another car for that much, sell yours for 500

[BFEINZIMER]

Thank you very much bigfoot...I'm about to go talk to him about what he found upon taking apart the tranny...thos their warranty is only 2 years/24000 miles...thanks..

[Jon K]

BFEINZIMER -

Honestly bro, you can spend $2450 and have a 100% working unit for another 100k, or it could blow up 3 months down the road who knows. That same $2450 could get you a 5spd swap and you could sleep easily at night.

[93 525 Paul]

The repair is mostly labor. Tranny parts just aren't that much. Anyway, by the time you have the car all pulled apart and the tranny pulled down and sitting in pieces on the bench, are you going to only correct what might be wrong and not do a full rebuild? Hell no. The parts are a not the majority of the cost.
From Import Performance Transmissions' website, "IPT now offers High Performance Master Rebuild Kits for Audi, BMW and VW transmissions. These kits include all necessary seals, gaskets, filters, shifting bands, friction clutches and reaction plates that are required when rebuilding transmissions. The materials and parts that are selected for inclusion in these kits are the same as the ones that are installed in our Performance Transmissions. We utilize only the type of clutch and reaction plate material that we feel is best suited for each particular unit.
ZF4HP22 Performance Transmission Rebuild Kit Price: $579
ZF5HP24 Performance Transmission Rebuild Kit Price: $689"

I haven't rebuilt a ZF4HP22 or 24 but it's a 4 speed auto tranny and it's not brain surgery. It is a tedious process involving a ton of cleaning and meticulous assembly. Nevertheless, those quoted prices seem steep (metric dollars?) and the parts don't go anywhere near $1600.
From another source:
Stator Shaft ZF4HP22 stator tube $ 21.05
Correction kit ZF4HP22 (valve body kit) $ 59.01
Transmission repair manual ZF4HP22 1984-up $ 16.95
Solenoid master kit ZF4HP22 $269.51
3 shift and 1 EPC 7-pin connector L89 and up
Sprag ZF4HP22 overdrive roller clutch $ 26.20
Filter ZF4HP22 with 1-inch p/u tube 88-up $ 4.10
Master kit ZF4HP22 1984-up $257.04
Includes standard frictions, standard steels, paper gaskets, sealing rings, o-rings, lip seals and metal clad seals.
You can spend more money on higher end frictions and steels.

Either way, putting that much money in a car worth marginally more than that, is a bad idea. But you seem determined to go forward, irrespective of what's said here.
Good luck. Hope it's a broken solenoid wire and he sticks it back in and you are good to go for $650.

[BFEINZIMER]

Well its defenatly internal damage...I'm sorry if it seems I'm ignoring what people say here, but I NEED a car...between work, school and my private life lol...I'll take to him tomorrow about using performace parts...or POSSIBLLY a 5spd swap, but then I'd havta learn stick...which is kinda appealing...and all $ is USDollars...

[BFEINZIMER]

I just came back formt he shop and he showed me physically what happening...I was looking at the broken down tranny...he gave me a quote of $2150 USD for everything...so I'm pretty sure I'm gonna go through with it.