Thinking about selling my DINAN 535i Turbo...

[Zackb911]

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=640792

Zack

[Blitzkrieg Bob]

For it

It should be slow enough.

[Thayne]

You should keep it! Too much speed should be an oxymoron. :p But seriously you have a super rare car you should definitely keep it.

[Zackb911]

I know my friends tell me the same thing. However it isnt practical for me at this point in time. I am actually selling my Acura CL Type-S as well and buying an 07 civic sedan that gets 40mpg... I just really need to focus on other things and be practical, getting old sucks! I just hope I can find a real enthusiast as this car is so extremely rare...

Zack

[///Metal]

Man.. I hear you about getting old. I'm 30 and the adult clock is ticking and telling me to get something more sensible. My recent idea of sensible was moving from a 3-series to a 5er because I wanted something with more luxury and refinement. My e34 gets shitty gas mileage and has tons of little annoyances that an owner of a brand new Civic just doesn't have to deal with. However, the feeling I get from driving a BMW simply cannot be duplicated in any other car. Not to mention that I turn more heads in my 16 year old bimmer in one day than a Civic will over its entire lifetime. It's all worth it.

[Zackb911]

Man.. I hear you about getting old. I'm 30 and the adult clock is ticking and telling me to get something more sensible. My recent idea of sensible was moving from a 3-series to a 5er because I wanted something with more luxury and refinement. my e34 gets shitty gas mileage and has tons of little annoyances that an owner of a brand new Civic just doesn't have to deal with. However, the feeling I get from driving a BMW simply cannot be duplicated in any other car. Not to mention that I turn more heads in my 16 year old bimmer in one day than a Civic will over its entire lifetime. It's all worth it.


I hear you, this was my first bmw. I have owned several Porsches, Mercedes, VW's, saabs, and countless others, the overall feel, handling, and "tightness" of the steering is really impressive! These cars really have "soul" but unfortunatly 40mpg beats out "soul" at this point in my life...

[Traian]

The original link you posted doesn't work.

How much are you looking to get for it?

[Zackb911]

$10,000 it is in the classifides here and on bimmerforums as well:)

Zack

[Alexlind123]

$10,000 it is in the classifides here and on bimmerforums as well:)

Zack

Thats a really good price...

[Zackb911]

Thanks I figured its fair:)

[Digita1 Ecstasy]

Thats a really good price...


why?

[Elekta]

why did you buy it in the first place?

[Zackb911]

It was a deal I couldn't pass up and impulse... I've had tons of cars but never a BMW however winter is coming and it isn't practical for me to have 2 cars.

Digita1- It is incredibly rare, faster and rarer than an M5, and possibly 1 of 5 ever built, 330HP, 0-60 in 5 seconds flat, better skidpad numbers (.91g) than any corvette of that vintage, according to Car & Driver the hands down baddest 5 series, and emissions legal to boot!... and try finding another one:)

Zack

[Digita1 Ecstasy]

Oh wait so its a dinan and the dinan badge deserves an extra 5k added to the price tag of a stock good condition 535i. i understand now.


dont get me wrong the car looks lovely and all. But im sure you can go on a diy project and have the same outcome for alot less.

Maybe 9k if the car had nothing wrong w/ it.

[BillionPa]

practical eh, so you wouldnt want to trade for a 3000GT VR4?

[RockJock]

funny, yesterday i was going to ask you if you were willing to sell it anytime soon...

i could be interested pending a painfully detailed inspection at a stealership. can you post more pics. i.e., lower doors (inside/outside), pinch weld where the quarter panels meet the rear (inside/ouside)....

i was going to bring a pristine b10 biturbo over from europe in the spring but .....

[angrypancake]

Oh wait so its a dinan and the dinan badge deserves an extra 5k added to the price tag of a stock good condition 535i. i understand now.


dont get me wrong the car looks lovely and all. But im sure you can go on a diy project and have the same outcome for alot less.

Maybe 9k if the car had nothing wrong w/ it.


the dinan badge is worth $4,990. the complete sick turbo kit is worth the other $10....

[Zackb911]

RockJock- Send me a PM with your email address and I can take pics of whatever you like. If you wanted to have someone local come see it, fly in yourself, or pay for a dealer PPI they would all be fine at your expense of course:) As I stated in the listing there are still a couple small things to address hence I am on the low end on the asking price...

Billion- Sorry as much fun as that sounds it looks like I will be getting an 07 Civic Sedan EX 5speed in black or silver so if you have one of those let me know:D

Zack

[Ross]

Since you have made it a point in previous posts here to tell us what a steal the price you paid was, can we assume you'll be passing along your good fortune?

[Zackb911]

Well I think the asking price is very reasonable, everyone told me $10-15K so I am going on the low end of that. If I do not get any bites here first I will fix the little things left on the to-do list, do a serious restorative detail (engine, undercarage, wheels wells, etc) and see what eBay brings which I would guess to be in the 15K range. Unfortunatly they are so rare I havent found what another has sold for yet...

Zack

[Kalevera]

I don't fault or blame you for arbitraging the car, but I think that the sale price comes down to the badge and what someone's willing to pay for it.

Here's my point: there's no certification that it's actually a Dinan-built car, it has no known history, we don't know the VIN and the pictures available of the car don't elucidate whether it's been spared new england salt or body work. And then there's the issue of the title's being branded TMU. All of these facts will make a collector, if there is such a thing for these cars, leery.

My perception of the badge is actually detrimental to the car, as Dinan routinely sells marked-up factory components as their own and generally poorly engineered aftermarkets.

So what we're looking at is a 535 with a turbo. A seller on eBay has been offering a similar car, with the same wheels, for the past 6 months or so. He claims it's been sorted. I think he wants 13.5k for it, but even in the height of car buying season, bidding hit a ceiling at around 9k. The realistic price for that car is around 6 or 7k. This car has stated issues, and we haven't seen enough of the interior beyond apparent shrinking door seals to know the full story.

So it really comes down to the perception of the badge and, as others have said, what someone is willing to pay for the big D. Good luck!

[Zackb911]

I don't fault or blame you for arbitraging the car, but I think that the sale price comes down to the badge and what someone's willing to pay for it.

Here's my point: there's no certification that it's actually a Dinan-built car, it has no known history, we don't know the VIN and the pictures available of the car don't elucidate whether it's been spared new england salt or body work. And then there's the issue of the title's being branded TMU. All of these facts will make a collector, if there is such a thing for these cars, leery.

My perception of the badge is actually detrimental to the car, as Dinan is a company that routinely sells marked-up factory components as their own and generally poorly engineered aftermarkets.

So what we're looking at is a 535 with a turbo. A seller on eBay has been offering a similar car, with the same wheels, for the past 6 months or so. He claims it's been sorted. I think he wants 13.5k for it, but even in the height of car buying season, bidding hit a ceiling at around 9k. The realistic price for that car is around 6 or 7k. This car has stated issues, and we haven't seen enough of the interior beyond apparent shrinking door seals to know the full story.

So it really comes down to the perception of the badge and, as others have said, what someone is willing to pay for the big D. Good luck!

Everyone is entitled to their own perception, but in all fairness:

-The car is branded DINAN all over it, I have been told DINAN would not sell just the turbo kit without the full suspension package, possible engine modifications, and all the goodies. Therefore to have the full turbo and other goodies one would have to assume it is a Full Dinan car. Also a badge is awarded on a points system so a much lesser car could still be a "DINAN" but would not be a "DINAN 535i Turbo" like this. If you saw the car in person there is no doubt....

-The one on ebay is a home built turbo, not a dinan tubo 535i, It does not have the dinan suspension, is not emissions legal, has no collectable value, or gauges and the color combo is hideous. To boot he is asking $3,500 more. To go further it is the Bimmerbros guy who personally owned the only other DINAN 535i turbo I found so god only knows how much more he sold that for!

-TMU: I explained to the woman at the DMV about the gauge not displaying the mileage but that it is still accrued and stored in the coding plug and that once the display is working the mileage should be displayed and be current. She told me the title could be ammended and TMU taken off if a certified mechanic would sign a statement that this is true.

-Poorly engineered? Then why is Dinan the chosen specialty tuner by BMW? I have seen reports of these cars being 405hp(European Car), and 450hp(bmwE34.net) all while being emissions legal! They were on the cover of several magazines and earned a great deal of respect by various magazines. They had better skidpad numbers than any Corvette every tested and accelleration in super car territory. That doesnt sound like poor engineering to me..

-I will provide the VIN to anyone that wants it, I will take pictures for anyone that wants them, I stated there is no, zero, zilch rust nor any signs of bodywork. I ran the carfax and the car was apparently stored for about 7 years under the same owner and there is no accident history, everyone and anyone is welcome to come see or inspect it.

Let's face it this car is a collectable rare car, I was told by the guy who bought the last E34 turbo kit built off a retired Dinan mechanic that this may be 1 of 5 of these. If a homebuilt and not too pretty regular 535i with a homemade turbo can bring $9,000 on ebay I am sure this car can bring a hell of a lot more all day long...

I'm sorry but I just think your reasoning was a little harsh and unfounded but everyone is entitled to their own opinion:)

[Digita1 Ecstasy]

-Poorly engineered? Then why is Dinan the chosen specialty tuner by BMW? I have seen reports of these cars being 405hp(European Car), and 450hp(bmwE34.net) all while being emissions legal! They were on the cover of several magazines and earned a great deal of respect by various magazines. They had better skidpad numbers than any Corvette every tested and accelleration in super car territory. That doesnt sound like poor engineering to me..




I don't want to bash your For sale thread because I've always wanted a turbo scooter myself but. Dinan is the only aftermarket company that went after the annoyance of being able to certify their product as smog legal. And though there is no proof I've read from places Dinan has paid alot to BMW to be the only certified and or authorized dealer for their cars.

What it all boils down to is now because of this added appeal Dinan can take a car, and fabricate their parts on it. And make it a totally new car. And sell as so. Sort of like what Alpina does. But then another aftermarket company can do the SAME thing. SAME results but they dont have the smog legal/still under BMW warranty bs. So the -percieved- value of the car is decreased. I know your just trying to sell your car saying omg its a dinan bmw aka a ferrari. But I dont think it will fool all that many people here.

Dinan has good products, but overpriced, gouged out and they totally over shoot the actual power gains on their site.


And like lowell was saying, your for sale thread isnt very descriptive. But hey. I'll buy your car for 7.5k Thats good enough for a down payment on a Honda right?

[weiss_535is]

Everyone is entitled to their own perception, but in all fairness:

-The car is branded DINAN all over it, I have been told DINAN would not sell just the turbo kit without the full suspension package, possible engine modifications, and all the goodies. Therefore to have the full turbo and other goodies one would have to assume it is a Full Dinan car. Also a badge is awarded on a points system so a much lesser car could still be a "DINAN" but would not be a "DINAN 535i Turbo" like this. If you saw the car in person there is no doubt....

-The one on ebay is a home built turbo, not a dinan tubo 535i, It does not have the dinan suspension, is not emissions legal, has no collectable value, or gauges and the color combo is hideous. To boot he is asking $3,500 more. To go further it is the Bimmerbros guy who personally owned the only other DINAN 535i turbo I found so god only knows how much more he sold that for!

-TMU: I explained to the woman at the DMV about the gauge not displaying the mileage but that it is still accrued and stored in the coding plug and that once the display is working the mileage should be displayed and be current. She told me the title could be ammended and TMU taken off if a certified mechanic would sign a statement that this is true.

-Poorly engineered? Then why is Dinan the chosen specialty tuner by BMW? I have seen reports of these cars being 405hp(European Car), and 450hp(bmwE34.net) all while being emissions legal! They were on the cover of several magazines and earned a great deal of respect by various magazines. They had better skidpad numbers than any Corvette every tested and accelleration in super car territory. That doesnt sound like poor engineering to me..

-I will provide the VIN to anyone that wants it, I will take pictures for anyone that wants them, I stated there is no, zero, zilch rust nor any signs of bodywork. I ran the carfax and the car was apparently stored for about 7 years under the same owner and there is no accident history, everyone and anyone is welcome to come see or inspect it.

Let's face it this car is a collectable rare car, I was told by the guy who bought the last E34 turbo kit built off a retired Dinan mechanic that this may be 1 of 5 of these. If a homebuilt and not too pretty regular 535i with a homemade turbo can bring $9,000 on ebay I am sure this car can bring a hell of a lot more all day long...

I'm sorry but I just think your reasoning was a little harsh and unfounded but everyone is entitled to their own opinion:)

To say that the Dinan Badge on a genuine car is worth 5k and the rest of the car isnt is just plain stupid. How much does the M badge on an M5 cost? Retarded comments. Lovely car and good luck with the sale.

PS I think your asking price is more than reasonable.
Cheers

[Wes F]

I remember being at the Barrett-Jackson auto auction in Scottsdale a few years back, I saw a Dinan 535i turbo just like yours (in fact I thought it was your car, but I guess the one I saw was a '91 - funny though how it had the same color combo as yours). Anyways, just wanted to let you know it sold on the block for 23 grand and change.

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/auctionresults/common/cardetail.asp?id=172363

Now granted, this was back in 2003, and it was a later model, but I would say if you were to clean her up real nice you shouldn't have a problem getting around 10 large for it. Hell, if you were to bring it to one of those auctions, you could possibly get more for it. Just a thought. Good luck though whatever you do...wish I had the money :)

[Zackb911]

I remember being at the Barrett-Jackson auto auction in Scottsdale a few years back, I saw a Dinan 535i turbo just like yours (in fact I thought it was your car, but I guess the one I saw was a '91 - funny though how it had the same color combo as yours). Anyways, just wanted to let you know it sold on the block for 23 grand and change.

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/auctionresults/common/cardetail.asp?id=172363

Now granted, this was back in 2003, and it was a later model, but I would say if you were to clean her up real nice you shouldn't have a problem getting around 10 large for it. Hell, if you were to bring it to one of those auctions, you could possibly get more for it. Just a thought. Good luck though whatever you do...wish I had the money :)


Wow thanks for the link!

[peter7907]

Hi guys,
i am new to the forum. Interesting reading the forum discussion about BMW tuners. I recently purchased a 1990 HARTGE H5SP.

I think the value in any BMW collectibles is its origins, uniqueness and how many were produced. I did some research on BMW tuners and it appears to me that, anytime a car has had its conversion completed early on and the earlier the better, the greater the value.

Alpina and Hartge cars were converted when new. The Hartge I purchase has a Hartge badge / ID plate in the engine bay with a hartge serial #. My opinion, irrelevant of tuners if it has documentation such as the Hartge , that they are all collectable. Opposite of that if they are bolt own items relevant of tuners, often it is a detriment to the car and lessen the value of a stock vehicle.

Quote from article www.bmwe34m5.com "It is not fair to describe Alpina or Hartge as just a tuners. Both are now regarded as independent car manufacturers. The most famous modified E34 is the Alpina B10 biturbo. With it’s 360DIN hp twin turbo charged 3,4 litre M30 engine, it was capable of accelerating from 0-100km/h in just5.6sec and reaching a top speed of more than 290km/h5. Even the current E39 ///M5 cannot keep pace with a well a biturbo in good condition."

So, if the 89 Dinan has proof of documentation or however Diana identified their cars, than, this car is a collectible. I have heard from my mechanic a BMW specialty shop, that people in Europe or restoring these early Tuner cars and fetching in the 30-40 thousand mark.

I recently saw a Alpina bi 10 turbo asking 35,000. US E bay item 160025215069.

The Dinan is a beautiful car, the value is really at what stage is it in to becoming a 30,000 car. If the car needs 15,000 in restoration (paint ,interior, mechanics.) In my opinion, it is fair to good value at 10 thou.

It would be great to hear feedback on my HARTGE H5SP.
cheers
peter

[angrypancake]

pictures of the Hartge!!!! cmon now

[angrypancake]

To say that the Dinan Badge on a genuine car is worth 5k and the rest of the car isnt is just plain stupid. How much does the M badge on an M5 cost? Retarded comments. Lovely car and good luck with the sale.

PS I think your asking price is more than reasonable.
Cheers


I'm not going to jump on your case. But you've only been here for a short amount of time....


Whit is one of the most knowledgeable members on this board. He's one of the "old schoolers" that's been around the block a few times, and knows his **** inside and out. Works at Koala, etc.

He's right. Dinan used to sell a "big brake upgrade" for e34 m5's. It was the 345mm calipers/rotors from a Nurburgring packaged euro M5, rebadged as Dinan, and sold for what, $5,000, iirc? That's great business, but shitty to the little guy.


I don't want to take sides. Zack's turbo 535 is clearly a really rare car. Dinan has proven to be extremely overpriced. That being said, 10k is not a bad price, with records and history.

/soap box

[peter7907]

pictures of the Hartge!!!! cmon now

thanks for your interest.
Hope the file is not to large. My only disappointment is that the Hartge it is an automatic. I am contemplating converting it to 5 speed and keeping the automatic for a later conversion back to original future collectible status.

[weiss_535is]

I'm not going to jump on your case. But you've only been here for a short amount of time....


Whit is one of the most knowledgeable members on this board. He's one of the "old schoolers" that's been around the block a few times, and knows his **** inside and out. Works at Koala, etc.

He's right. Dinan used to sell a "big brake upgrade" for e34 m5's. It was the 345mm calipers/rotors from a Nurburgring packaged euro M5, rebadged as Dinan, and sold for what, $5,000, iirc? That's great business, but shitty to the little guy.


I don't want to take sides. Zack's turbo 535 is clearly a really rare car. Dinan has proven to be extremely overpriced. That being said, 10k is not a bad price, with records and history.

/soap box

Wasn't my objective to 'slam' anyone just my honest opinion on that particular car - sorry if offence taken :)

[Zackb911]

thanks for your interest.
Hope the file is not to large. My only disappointment is that the Hartge it is an automatic. I am contemplating converting it to 5 speed and keeping the automatic for a later conversion back to original future collectible status.

Peter, very nice car! Thanks for the comments

[Antrieb]

Hmm that car was on ebay recently, no? What has been done to the engine?

[angrypancake]

thanks for your interest.
Hope the file is not to large. My only disappointment is that the Hartge it is an automatic. I am contemplating converting it to 5 speed and keeping the automatic for a later conversion back to original future collectible status.


damn that thing looks sweet. do you have any more pictures? bigger one perhaps? I've never seen a hartge body kit before. what are the engine specs on this H5? is the displacement upped or anything like that? what makes it truly badass?

[peter7907]

Hmm that car was on ebay recently, no? What has been done to the engine?

Yes..... it was on ebay. The engine has not been modified other than hartge changes. It seems Hartge would take a car from factory and have specific packages for that perticular car. It would include engine modification, suspension, wheels and body. This H5SP has ID hartge badges on all its optional equipment.

I found this searching the net.....
"the H5SP was a motronic 3.4 liter a US 535), it had a hemispherical combustion chamber with 10.2 Compression hemi dome pistons, of course headers, cam, adjustable fuel pressure regulator. It produced 254 HP. Then there was the H5SP sport, this was a H5SP with the addition of an adapter plate so the intake (individual throttle body) from a M motor could be mounted. This produced 290 HP."

So, i am not sure whether its 254hp or 290 hp???

My mechanic verified it to be a true Hartge car. He thinks by looking at the cam that it has a fairly high lift cam. With stainles steel headers and cam it sounds very nice especially at idle.

I am hoping to get documentation from Hartge.

another net quote...http://www.m535i.org/e12info/time.html
Competitor to the Alpina B9 and BMW's own M535i. The H5 utilized a 240 bhp 3.5 liter engine, and the performance is similar to the M535i and B9. The H5SP had a 254 bhp 3.5 liter engine. These cars had packages which were extremely flexible. So long as the documentation is there, then they can be considered Hartge Factory cars. Otherwise the mods are add-ons, and the value isn't as much as a "new" Hartge prepared car.

cheers
peter

[peter7907]

damn that thing looks sweet. do you have any more pictures? bigger one perhaps? I've never seen a hartge body kit before. what are the engine specs on this H5? is the displacement upped or anything like that? what makes it truly badass?

Hi, here are more pics. I am sure they increased displacement, how much? I do not know. I hope to find out.

[peter7907]

damn that thing looks sweet. do you have any more pictures? bigger one perhaps? I've never seen a hartge body kit before. what are the engine specs on this H5? is the displacement upped or anything like that? what makes it truly badass?


one more pic

[TC535i]

I found this searching the net.....
"Then there was the H5SP sport, this was a H5SP with the addition of an adapter plate so the intake (individual throttle body) from a M motor could be mounted. This produced 290 HP."

So, i am not sure whether its 254hp or 290 hp???

I would say 254hp. Sounds like the 290hp has the individual throttle bodies from the S38, and yours has just the stock single throttle body from the picture you posted.