Oh Nooooooo... Please! Not the Crusher?

[pawswish]

Ok... so I finally figured how this thread thing works. I'm new to this and came across bimmer.info through the excellent e34 article in the latest Roundel. I'm hoping someone out there can save my 1989 535i from the crusher.... HELP!!!

Prior to the issue with the blown radiator hose, even with 300,000 miles (all long run stuff) she ran like the day she left the factory. Now there are coolant issues... maybe a blown head gasket or warped head. If I de- pressurize the system I can drive just fine, but I'm too old to be messing with this stuff... and I know all about the bleeding challenges. With black on black, interior is perfect with no leather rips or tears, seats work fine including heaters (no funky seatback issues) new gas strut inserts and gas shocks 5K miles ago, perfect gearbox although a tad stiff in cold weather due to Redline oil, limited slip diff. What doesn't work? A/C, speedometer... that's about it. Light timing chain noise but that's to be expected at this mileage and some light rust.
I'm in southeast Wisconsin and will be donating the car to the Boy's Ranch if there are no takers, probably in a week or two. I think it's worth $500. Any takers? make me an offer I can't refuse. Please... she doesn't deserve to die this soon.

Thanks.

Pawswish

[angrypancake]

so what are the coolant issues? is it overheating or somethign? could it be air in the lines screwing things up?


are you getting the classic white smoke from the exhaust?

[BillionPa]

O_O

hold on to that till i consult with an associate.

im in the twin cities, and if he wants it we wil probably drive there to tow it.

[pawswish]

so what are the coolant issues? is it overheating or somethign? could it be air in the lines screwing things up?


are you getting the classic white smoke from the exhaust?

Overheated when the radiator hose blew. I changed the hose, refilled the coolant reservoir, started it with the cap off and as it warmed up the coolant came overflowing out of the bottle. So, I made sure the system was properly bled and it seemed fine. No classic white smoke. Drove it to work the next day and on the way home it got hot and I pulled over and had to refill the bottle and re-bleed. Since then the system seems to get way overpressurized, and I left it cool down overnight and the oil had a very slightly milky appearance the following day after I started it. Since then, I've run it around town with the system de-pressurized and it stays cool (below half point on the temp guage where it always is), no milky oil, no apparent white smoke, but it seems that the coolant goes down faster than it sould be evaporating. Hence my guess at a blown head gasket or warped head.

Thanks for responding! I've not driven it for a week, and figure a more knowledgable person is what's needed. Concerns are overpressurization, apparent coolant loss, slightly milky oil appearance when I pressurized the system the last time. Heater works fine while I'm running it so looks like all air is properly bled out through the bleeder screw.

[pawswish]

Works for me. It's a two owner local car. Previous owner put 240,000 miles driving to Rockford every day, and then it sat in his garage for over a year due to his health problems. It has some scratches and dents (more from his wife storing boxes on it and banging her damn SUV door into it, than anything else). I drive 80 miles round trip each day and it has been a great car. Too young to die.

Let me know. Am anxious to see it go to someone who will not route it directly to the crusher. Thanks for responding!

[SnakeyesTx]

I was about to mention that bleeder screw in the radiator. I was able to pour in almost half a gallon more coolant after I took mine out. But if you run the motor with that screw out, you get a pressurized fountain! Just verifying, you had the screw out when you filled the system correct?

[pawswish]

I was about to mention that bleeder screw in the radiator. I was able to pour in almost half a gallon more coolant after I took mine out. But if you run the motor with that screw out, you get a pressurized fountain! Just verifying, you had the screw out when you filled the system correct?

Yup... took that out and was able to add a bunch more coolant like you said. Curious thing is that when it got hot the second time, I had the bleeder screw out and could hear boiling down the hole, but the coolant reservoir still had coolant in there. How the heck does that happen? So I ended up doing the only thing that was available... pouring the coolant directly down the bleeder screw hole to cool the sombitch down. After everything stabilized, I drove it home unpressurized and temp guage etc was fine. System seems to overpressurize whenever I put the filler cap back on.

[pawswish]

I see you're a 530iA pilot. A friend has a '95 530iA.. beautiful condition... that he is very disenchanted with because it puked the tranny shortly after he bought it. He replaced that and it may be for sale. Anyone you know interested?

[SnakeyesTx]

I don't particularly recommend this normally, but have you tried taking the thermostat out and seeing if it still pressurizes? That's the last thing I could think of...

...unless you're experiencing the same issue I had. Try to take it to a shop that can test the coolant system for the presence of exhaust gases entering it. My head was actually *Cracked* between an exhaust valve and a coolant passage. Oil wasn't exchanged, but rather exhaust was pressurizing my cooling system and blew a hose. The test I assume is lithmus like because he says whatever he uses turns yellow when exhaust gasses are present contaminating the coolant. Generally these tests take a few minutes for the engine to warm up and run for a while, but mine was cracked so bad that it failed the test in the first 20 seconds.

[pawswish]

I don't particularly recommend this normally, but have you tried taking the thermostat out and seeing if it still pressurizes? That's the last thing I could think of...

...unless you're experiencing the same issue I had. Try to take it to a shop that can test the coolant system for the presence of exhaust gases entering it. My head was actually *Cracked* between an exhaust valve and a coolant passage. Oil wasn't exchanged, but rather exhaust was pressurizing my cooling system and blew a hose. The test I assume is lithmus like because he says whatever he uses turns yellow when exhaust gasses are present contaminating the coolant. Generally these tests take a few minutes for the engine to warm up and run for a while, but mine was cracked so bad that it failed the test in the first 20 seconds.

That would be my guess. HAve not taken the thermostat out, but wondered what role that could play in thsi whole ordeal. Thanks for the suggestion on the coolant test. I'd heard about that from a friend with a E34 M5 who had the engine rebuilt, but tracking it brought on the same overpressurization and coolant issues. Fortunately the engine-builder stood behind his work!!! Maybe my 535i had sympathy pains...

I'll check locally to see if there is anyone who can do that test, or failing that, maybe one of the local auto supply places sells whatever it is that is used to test the coolant. If I had the time and the energy I'd get a used head and replace it, but she is far from pristine and I'm looking around for another 5-series.

Cheers!

[winfred]

good chance the pisser line that goes from the top of the radiator to the coolant tank on the firewall is plugged, it usually gets stopped up where it goes through the neck into the tank, when this happens the system can't self bleed and can show symptoms like a blown head gasket

[pawswish]

good chance the pisser line that goes from the top of the radiator to the coolant tank on the firewall is plugged, it usually gets stopped up where it goes through the neck into the tank, when this happens the system can't self bleed and can show symptoms like a blown head gasket

Thanks Winfred. That's one of the early things I checked and after nothing came out initially, but soon came an intermittent then a steady stream which varies with engine speed, resulting in a downright frothy squirt above 3,000 RPMs.

[winfred]

most m30 e34/32s don't like to run with the cap off for very long after they come up to temp before they belch and generally start puking, (some'll run all day) they generally don't take long to let you know when the gasket is blown, full coolant/oil mixing is uncommon, you may get a little cheese on the oil cap but a milkshake is rare, but the later m30s do leak coolant externally usually at the rear corner by the exhaust, and when warped good they blow between the cylinders or cylinder to the water jacket at the gasket

[BillionPa]

if you think you have coolant in the oil from the ordeal, do an oil change to prevent corrosion.

[genphreak]

Works for me. It's a two owner local car. Previous owner put 240,000 miles driving to Rockford every day, and then it sat in his garage for over a year due to his health problems. It has some scratches and dents (more from his wife storing boxes on it and banging her damn SUV door into it, than anything else). I drive 80 miles round trip each day and it has been a great car. Too young to die.

Let me know. Am anxious to see it go to someone who will not route it directly to the crusher. Thanks for responding!If you need it, here's a neat list of all the **** you need to do a late M30B35 head (http://www.firewiremedia.com.au/files/M3009-88CylHdParts-Rev1.02.pdf)- this is to replace every moving part, but a lot of it you don't need- my cam was worn so I just chose to do this. Not doing the rocker shafts & rockers makes it a lot cheaper... :) Nick

[pawswish]

Thanks Nick. If it's a blown head gasket that's pretty straightforward, however if it's a warped head, then I believe I'm correct in saying that the whole thing (head) has to be disassembled for heat treatment work. I'm also assuming that if it is a cracked head, disassembly is also necessary?

[pawswish]

if you think you have coolant in the oil from the ordeal, do an oil change to prevent corrosion.

Good point. Last time I drove her it looked ok. She was a quart low at the time of the "ordeal" so I added it at that time. We had our first sloppy snow on Friday so have not looked in her direction, but I'll check up on her today and give her a short run to keep things moving. Maybe there's some consistency here to be identified.

By the way, I got the damn cold you talked about!!

[pawswish]

most m30 e34/32s don't like to run with the cap off for very long after they come up to temp before they belch and generally start puking, (some'll run all day) they generally don't take long to let you know when the gasket is blown, full coolant/oil mixing is uncommon, you may get a little cheese on the oil cap but a milkshake is rare, but the later m30s do leak coolant externally usually at the rear corner by the exhaust, and when warped good they blow between the cylinders or cylinder to the water jacket at the gasket

I'll take a look today for coolant leaks when I start her and bring her up to temp. Will bleed thoroughly beforehand and check the oil situation to make sure it's not milky... don't want to screw up the bottom end too. Curiously enough, she has not objected to running de-pressurized as long as the system is properly bled.

Thanks!

[winfred]

cracks are very rare on a m30, warped is usually easily fixed by machining the head flat again, i can't remember if you can leave the valves in during the cutting, you definatly need to pull the cam and rockers, if the valves are recessed far enough into the combustion chambers that they are enough above the deck surface they can stay in, but with the kind of miles you have id pull them and change the seals, if it's had good oil mantaince the guides are probably fine


Thanks Nick. If it's a blown head gasket that's pretty straightforward, however if it's a warped head, then I believe I'm correct in saying that the whole thing (head) has to be disassembled for heat treatment work. I'm also assuming that if it is a cracked head, disassembly is also necessary?

[pawswish]

cracks are very rare on a m30, warped is usually easily fixed by machining the head flat again, i can't remember if you can leave the valves in during the cutting, you definatly need to pull the cam and rockers, if the valves are recessed far enough into the combustion chambers that they are enough above the deck surface they can stay in, but with the kind of miles you have id pull them and change the seals, if it's had good oil mantaince the guides are probably fine

Ok... Here's the latest. She's been sitting dejected in the corner of the driveway for a whole week... not started... not run. It's cold here... snow Friday and yesterday. I checked the oil... not milky; checked the coolant level... ok; pulled the bleeder screw... coolant came out, no air. She started right up as always and I let her idle for 45 minutes with the system de-pressurized, keeping an eye on the temp guage (which stayed one needle width to the left of center, as always. Coolant bottle did not overflow, pisser worked just fine. Then I took her on a 10 mile drive around town and 65 MPH for a while, again with teh system depressurized. No white smoke; temp guage stayed right where it should. I was gentle and did not use high RPMs... 3,500 at most. Heater worked fine (on bypass setting since the regular setting is not reliable.

Got home and shut her down. A minimal amount of coolant had surged over the neck of the bottle, but no biggie. Consistent with prior observation and something which I think is extraordinary is that upon loosening the bleeder screw (remembner that the system is depressurized), bubbles accompanied by a minor boiling sound came out of the gaps between the threads of the bleeder screw and the housing that it screws into... not a lot, but a couple of tries after that, minutes apart, brought the same result. Clearly there's a hotspot in there somewhere.

The other thing I forgot to mention before... DUH! .... is that the time before when I drove it, I left it on a slope in the driveway in first gear, with the barely working handbrake on. Prior to all these problems I didn't need the handbrake when I left it parked on a hill and could leave it in gear. However, when I came back later, it had rolled downhill, coming to rest with the drivers' side tire resting on a tree in the yard... missing the fender by fractions of an inch!! Talk about luck!!! That tells me that there is a compression problem arising out of this whole overheating issue.

She continues to run like the stately lady she is, no missing or other dramatics, but it's time to move on. I'm going to collect her replacement, a 540i this afternoon, but still hope that some kind soul out there will save her from the crusher.

You guys are dynamite!!! Why didn't I do this chat room thing before!!!!

[Ross]

PM & e-mail sent

[winfred]

if it ran without puking or overheating or making **** loads of pressure it's fine, probably needed to burp. it's not too hard to misdiagnose a head gasket, i've fixed a ton of cars that the dealer and a couple high end shops in town said the gasket/head was toast for a couple hundred verses a couple grand, just a couple months ago a customer/friend of the shop that lives in dallas tx (we are in baton rouge la) thought he toasted his head gasket while in miami fl (auction driver, he travels a bit) he hopped a plane to here and had the car shipped to the shop, a set of plugs a thermostat a cooling flush and he was good to go

[pawswish]

if it ran without puking or overheating or making **** loads of pressure it's fine, probably needed to burp. it's not too hard to misdiagnose a head gasket, i've fixed a ton of cars that the dealer and a couple high end shops in town said the gasket/head was toast for a couple hundred verses a couple grand, just a couple months ago a customer/friend of the shop that lives in dallas tx (we are in baton rouge la) thought he toasted his head gasket while in miami fl (auction driver, he travels a bit) he hopped a plane to here and had the car shipped to the shop, a set of plugs a thermostat a cooling flush and he was good to go

No Puking... no overheating, but remember I ran it without the coolant reservoir cap on. Last time I did that it seemed to build a tremendous amount of pressure as the hoses swelled like crazy. Ross suggested I have someone test it with a pressure tester, so if I can find someone here in town who works for an auto shop, and wants to make a couple bucks on the side... Also someone else suggested a chemical test of some kind to identify carbon monoxide in the coolant. Probably won't be able to get to it until next weekend anyway.