dealer or indy... (Bimmer techs please read)

[BlueM60]

Ive been BMW tech for a little over a year now and am totally sick of the dealership environment. Doing the work right and taking your time is the last thing on the list if a tech wants to make money at this-hence the reason I dont turn crazy hours, but almsot never get a comeback. I got a great job offer from an Indy in St Simons, Ga. A great little island of the Ga coast, I know it well. Im really considering the offer with a few worries tho.. I wont be working on strictly Bimmers any more, it will also be Mercedes, Jag, Porche. There will be less diagnostic ability as most indy's only have scan tool, not the DIS/ GT1 of a dealer. Any former or current techs here that have an opinion on one or the other. If I dont take this job at the indy, I will be leaving the dealership anyway as Im completely fed up with the red tape/ bullsh#t that gets in the way of just doing my job. Sorry for the slight rant. Time for beer and bed...

-Ben

[BlueM60]

Hmm nobody here works on cars for a living?

Bump

[Elekta]

Hmm nobody here works on cars for a living?

No, but I did stay at a holiday inn last night.

?: How much is a SOA diagnostic system to read and diagnose all of the cars you mentioned? $30k? $100k?

Why don't you borrow the money, buy the system, and work an 80-20 split with the indy until it's paid off and you've doubled your downpayment costs; then reverse the split. Maybe form an LLC and lease it to the indy (you get the interest deduction on the loan and the depreciation of the asset).

The entrepreneur in me says, "what will it take to make this move worthwhile? the equipment. if the partnership goes south with the indy, you've still got the gear to form the same relationship somewhere else, and the expertise in utilizing the asset which increases your value in pay negotiation"

I bet there's some great red fishing down there, not to mention a few GA peaches.

best of luck and close your deal before the Xmas holiday, not during it

[BlueM60]

It sounds like a good deal 530i, but you must understand Im only 24 and dont quite have the clout or the finances to go about such a deal. Id really like to just work at the Indy for a year or two then open my own shop. I have the entrpreneureal spirit myself. mind if I ask what you do to maintain such attractive vehicles?

-Ben

[MBXB]

Send a PM to aston_jag_tech. He works at an indy.

[632 Regal]

you might want to address this to Winfred (whoever the **** he is) or Bill R, Austin also as posted. maybe repost with their names in the title.

[tdgard]

Sorry--no help from me, but I do have a few questions. Like WTF is a comeback? Sounds like a bonus for repeat business. Is this the way a dealer works? Also are you paid per car and how fast you can get them out? Just some general questions to get to know how the dealer works. All I know is my SA and have no clue who the techs are--mind you I deal with a very large dealer here in Atlanta & would like to know if I should get to know these guys for their sake--I'd like to spread the wealth if it's possible.

530IT--MMMMM GA peach--then there is the fruit.

[Ross]

Perhaps an opportunity to hone your diagnostic skills.
It sounds like you take pride in your trade, the longer you remain where you are, more likely it is you become like them.
At an indy you will be working on older out of warranty stuff you already know. Learning the other brands will only increase your worth.
St. Simons island is a beautiful place, go for it!

[markus]

i used to be a chrysler tech and I know how you feel bro. I quit for good.

[markus]

mechanics are paid by flat rate. basically you get paid to do a job based on how many hours in the book it says u get paid for. Lets say putting brakes on a car pays 1 hour. You do it in 1.5 hours, well you still only get paid for the single hour reguardless of how fast or slow it takes you.

Comebacks arent good, it means the tech loses money because he screwed something up and has to do it over again which wastes his time and doesnt get paid for it. It also makes customers pissed off and hurts CSI scores.

[BillionPa]

well said Ross.

[tdgard]

mechanics are paid by flat rate. basically you get paid to do a job based on how many hours in the book it says u get paid for. Lets say putting brakes on a car pays 1 hour. You do it in 1.5 hours, well you still only get paid for the single hour reguardless of how fast or slow it takes you.

Comebacks arent good, it means the tech loses money because he screwed something up and has to do it over again which wastes his time and doesnt get paid for it. It also makes customers pissed off and hurts CSI scores.

Well that's how I thought it should work but the initial post was unclear--at least to me. So work at normal speed & get the 1hr. job done in .75 hrs--get a bonus? I though my rate structure was complicated. Get me out of bed--pay me 10 hrs.

[BlueM60]

I appreciate the replies guys. Markues, i cant blame you for getting out, what do you do now, something auto related?
Ross, I agree with you that its an opportunity to improve my automotive skills. Im going to go with the indy and give it a year, if this doesnt pan out to better money and less stress, its time to change carrers.
Once again guys, thanks for replies and taking interest in my cause.

-Ben

[Denton]

Okay, so you're going to work on St. Simons? I'm assuming Island Automotive, with whom we've had great experiences with and they know us on a first-name basis.

Island Automotive is so busy I really wouldn't be surprised if you could open up your own indy shop on the island.

[markus]

i got out to work in an aluminum factory but just got laid off so im going to do something with UPS for now. Im not sure what I want to do really. I plan on going back to school next fall for computers. I did go to UTI but the dealer I worked for didnt even seem to care and started me off at the same crappy rate as some joe they pulled off the street which pissed me off. I worked for almost a year and didnt even get a raise when I asked so I said **** this ****_. It was starting to become a drag day after day and I couldnt take doing it. It was turning a hobby into something I couldnt stand doing no longer plus the pay didnt cut the mustard for the work you do. Now I know why mechanics usually stay no longer than 5 years. Im only 20 so I got out before I was knee deep in that with Snap-On bills, Chrysler courses etc.. I hated the guys I worked with and my days were usually from 8am till 6pm. I was turning usually about 6 hours a day so again it wasnt worth it. I would give it a shot again but I like working on older cars like you do. Unfortunatley there arent many indy shops here so im not gonna let it get the best of me. Im thinking about doing computers when I go back to school since I like taking things apart and fixing them and then putting whatever it is back together. Computers dont have scalding hot oil inside of them and you dont have to worry about breaking your fingers or busting your knuckles when taking them apart. Also it pays a lot better.

[markus]

bonus LOL. Thats one thing we never saw. I think people who wrote those books never worked on a damn car in their lives.

[BlueM60]

Well said Markus. I, like you am still fairly young (24) so im not too deep in it either. I think Im going to give it a year at the indy, hopefully this environment, pay will be better than the dealer. I know without a shadow after this Christmas I will never be a dealer tech again. i dont see how guys stay in it for 5 years at all. A year has almost stressed me I feel to the point of a heart attack. Good luck on what you find.

-Ben

[BlueM60]

Actually I will be working for Southern Star automotive. im not sure where island automotive is? I know I pass another indy shop to get to Southern Star but havent noticed the name. Is it off Skylane Rd?

-Ben

[genphreak]

WTF is a comeback? Sounds like a bonus for repeat business. Heh, you should definately consider opening a dealership... :D

[genphreak]

I'm no mechanic myself... but why not get a place, open your own shop and work on word of mouth.

A garage at a rented house where you can do it legally is ideal (Jon Ks place looks a bit like this). Get good company ID, visual theme/brand and a clean, simple website with an active booking contact page, and manage your email well. Give customers something cool that they will like, like the ability to see a pic of their car when its finished. Its a gimmick, buit its a point of difference to get an email and a pic of your car finished up. I'd integrate it with billing so they can see the labour that was carried out remotely once the bill is done.

In the shop, do the right thing, be practical and focus on your customers MORE than anything else- their perceptions count to you more than the money they give you in the first year, after that themoney comes more easily as you have the clientele. Specialise in BMW (or what you knowand like) and only accept simple things form marques you are not so familiar with. Simple jobs on some can be nightmares ;) You'll do well as people like to know the guy that works on the BMW. Get the best diagnostics as you can afford and need. A lot can be done with Carsoft etc... but plenty can be done with common sense :)

EDIT: Just read 530iTouring's post, obv I agree with him. He kinda makes it sound simple but really all one needs is the business aptitude and application to succeed. That said, many successful people in business lack a lot of the things you would have learnt already. Question is, have you thought about it? Maybe you can do small business course before leaving the dealer- that would do more than clue you up with stuff you need to know anyway, it would let you know if doing an independent thing is for you or not. Remember a lot of people succeed in making a job for themselves, not running a business- which is hard as they can't leave it later when they want a change, and can't sell up as the business is built around them, handing over to another person is just impractical- they need to learn too many things to succeed in it so often they just shut it down if the business never grew beyond them.

That's the negative stuff done... but I agree that at 24 you want to make a decision now rather than later. Working for others all your life is a often a middle of the road choice- and that's up to no-one but you.

[Elekta]

It sounds like a good deal 530i, but you must understand Im only 24 and dont quite have the clout or the finances to go about such a deal. Id really like to just work at the Indy for a year or two then open my own shop. I have the entrpreneureal spirit myself. mind if I ask what you do to maintain such attractive vehicles?

-Ben

I guess when you realize that others have been profiting off of your brains and sweat, you'll know when you've had enough.

I work in commercial real estate, and the day my boss made $350k out of a $400 k commission that I sourced, negotiated and closed, I went out on my own.

24 is a ripe age to take some risks. You are still way young enough to bounce back from a business failure. All you need is a little capital and a co-signer. Say 5% ($5k of $100k for ex) down on your diagnostic computer, and your dad or someone who believes in you on a 15 year interest only loan amortization that you will plan to pay off in 5 years. Costs $350 to form an LLC (tax ded) to protect and subordinate any other loans you may have, and figure out a break even strategy to not mess up your co-signer's credit and keep you in business. Just go for break even. If there's gravy, it will be in the form of increased business and you don't need to plan for it. Just figure out your minimums and shoot for that. Head down, focused, best efforts at that number.

Once you have crunched the numbers you are ready to present a business opportunity to an outfit that could benefit from the equipment and a professional operator of that equipment. Sign a contract with mutual/hassle free/no hard feelings exit strategy, and you are in business for yourself.

Take the risk, master the equipment, and don't be like Tony Montana, and you have a great chance for success.

Best,

out for a few days,

geoff

[Denton]

Actually I will be working for Southern Star automotive. im not sure where island automotive is? I know I pass another indy shop to get to Southern Star but havent noticed the name. Is it off Skylane Rd?

-Ben

Okay, trying to think of where Southern Star is...I've heard of it.

Island is off of Airport Rd., next to McKinnon Airfield.

[BlueM60]

I totally agree Gen. My plan has always been to go into a type of buis. ownership. Im along of the lines of thinking working in a rather small, locally owned buisiness will give me more of an insight into how to run things. I will definitely try to be the BMW specialist in the shop and I dont think it will be a problem. The two other techs there already are really Mercedes guys, but when I toured the shop there were just as many Bimmers. I think Ill give it a year or two and try to build a small clientele over that time...maybe even get into the performance end of installations etc. I appreciate everyone's posts and I will keep updated on how it turns out. Damn, its time for work at the dealer...only another month, I can do it.

-Ben

[bsell]

Sorry--no help from me, but I do have a few questions. Like WTF is a comeback? Sounds like a bonus for repeat business. Is this the way a dealer works? Also are you paid per car and how fast you can get them out? Just some general questions to get to know how the dealer works. All I know is my SA and have no clue who the techs are--mind you I deal with a very large dealer here in Atlanta & would like to know if I should get to know these guys for their sake--I'd like to spread the wealth if it's possible.

530IT--MMMMM GA peach--then there is the fruit.

Don't take it personal if the techs don't want to talk to you. Time is money and time spent talking to you is time the other techs are finishing their current jobs so they can get the next job in the 'rack'. Which means you are that much farther removed from moving on to the next one...

Best mechanic advice I ever received; "Always charge the customer." Work done for free once, guarantees the customer will come to expect free work. Being young and all at the time, I had to stub my toe on that one to make sure.:D

You know who has the most control over who makes the most money as a dealership tech? The work-order dispatcher. He/she can feed you **** jobs all day (or week!) and load up some butt-shark with gravy work. Ain't nothing like working a 40-hour week and bringing home minimum wage because you didn't turn enough hours to beat the counter help at McDonalds as a fully certified ASE mechanic with an AAS in Automotive Tech ($13/hour 1980's). I got tired of the ass-kissing required to get enough decent work to make a living so I took all of the jobs offered to me the first go round just to see what would happen (had money in the bank to cover this 'experiment'). I think I 'turned' 8 hours that week. The money lady (accountant) chased me down because she thought I was either out sick or my time cards got lost. In the end, the owner ripped the service manager's ass for keeping me from making a living and things improved from then on.

So don't feel like you got dissed by the dealership techs not talking to you, it's nothing personal.

Brian

[bsell]

i used to be a chrysler tech and I know how you feel bro. I quit for good.

Yep, two years of school, almost five years of sore backs, dirty hands, and no chance for advancement. Quit the business and joined the Air Force.

Sixteen years, one wife, and two kids later, I am sure I made the right choice!

Brian

[bsell]

Well that's how I thought it should work but the initial post was unclear--at least to me. So work at normal speed & get the 1hr. job done in .75 hrs--get a bonus? I though my rate structure was complicated. Get me out of bed--pay me 10 hrs.

Each 'job' pays a certain amount. The time you spend doing it makes no matter in the amount you get paid for that job.

I used to install a/c's in Subarus at the dealership. It paid 6 hours labor. I could routinely do it in 2 hours cruising. Figure 2 hours per job, work 8 hours, thats 4 a/c's in the bag. 4 jobs x 6 hours each = 24 hours for the day. Any mechanic working flat rate would kill to do that much everyday.o

Of course this isn't sustainable so most guys turn 40-60 hours a week. You get guys talking trash about pulling 120 hours in pay for 30 hours worked every week. They are either ripping folks off blindly or lying through their teeth.

The flat rates in the book are set by experienced mechanics very familiar with that vehicle. You must know what you are doing to beat the times provided. Throw in a couple stubborn bolts and you are hurting to beat the time.

Its a tough way to make a living...

Good gig you got. If somebody calls me out of bed, I get up and do it or go to jail!

Brian

[genphreak]

I totally agree Gen. My plan has always been to go into a type of buis. ownership. Im along of the lines of thinking working in a rather small, locally owned buisiness will give me more of an insight into how to run things. I will definitely try to be the BMW specialist in the shop and I dont think it will be a problem. The two other techs there already are really Mercedes guys, but when I toured the shop there were just as many Bimmers. I think Ill give it a year or two and try to build a small clientele over that time...maybe even get into the performance end of installations etc. I appreciate everyone's posts and I will keep updated on how it turns out. Damn, its time for work at the dealer...only another month, I can do it. -Ben Great Ben, I'm really glad you are giving the thing good thought. Knowing what you are letting yourself in for is very important, so a year or three in there getting where others get it wrong will do you a lot of good. Make damn sure you do some formal business course once you think you can focus on the boring parts- ie accounting and such. Knowing your books is vital- and getting your leg up (and over) on the business side of things is somthing you simply have to do be4 starting your own business... else you will be spending money every time you learn something- and you'd be surprised how you might find yourself wishing you'd started out differently once you have learned a few things this way. The very best of luck there mate! Let us know what you do and keep us all posted on how the new shop is- what the crew are like and so on. You'd be surprised how many people here would like to be up to their arms in Bimmers every day :) Nick

[Ross]

More often than not I can beat flat rate lying on my back without power tools. The times are usually "generous", unless it's warranty rate.

[nixter]

Hmm nobody here works on cars for a living?

No, but I did stay at a holiday inn last night.


Hi 530iT, love the painted t-stars on your car! Did you have them painted yourself? If so do you have the specific paint colour? I have an artic silver M5 with shadowline and I think that would look great!

Sorry I tried to send you a PM but you're full.

thanks,

n