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View Full Version : 1995 525i tourer, wont start - Please help!!



royal
11-16-2006, 08:32 AM
Hi all,
I've been lurking here since buying the car but not posted much until now. What was a couple of fun days fixing the car during my holiday has become a nightmare as I need it for work next week. I'll try to be as detailed as possible, I've done a lot of research on here and also have the bentley manual but the car still wont start.

Quick history - Got the car 4 or 5mths back reasonably cheap due to 205k. I figured being a BMW and full service history it had another 100k lol. It overheated the next week, replaced the plastic waterpump with a metal one and its done 5k miles since without any problems.

The missus was driving the car returning a trailor we'd used to move house. As she was parking the trailor (lots of revving etc as the trailor was heavy, like when you start on a hill) the car cut out a few times. She then couldn't start it so left it while having a cuppa thinking maybe she'd flooded it or something. On return she managed to start it and drove home. On the way it cut out and chugged to a halt, and hasn't started since. The RAC guy had a look at it. He couldn't start it with 'easystart' spray and reckoned it was contaminated fuel. As it was late and he couldn't have checked much I thought this was unlikely. I'd filled up the day before at a busy shell garage and done about 40miles. The garage insisted there was no other reports of contaminated fuel (I guess they would say that though)

To start with I didn't have access to the internet or a Bentley manual so I replaced the DME (white) relay (BMW dealers thought this was the fuel pump one!), and also the light green one which the BMW dealers thought was the main one!, this didn't help.

I checked the spark plugs had spark by removing the coils and grounding them, spark was present.

I then got internet access (dial up :-( in the new house), and got the Bentley manual.

I checked the main relay as per the Bentley manual and had voltage and ground in the right places.

I checked the fuel pump relay and also had the correct readings (I also jumped the pins)


I then checked the voltage at the fuel pump and it was present. This seemed like the fuel pump was dead so I pulled the fuel lines and there was no fuel in the line so I thought that was the problem. It was a saturday and I missed the dealers so I tried fitting a pump from a scrap yard G reg 525 (M20 engine I think?) as I was desperate, which didn't work. On monday I ordered a new correct pump and fitted that. It still doesn't work.

I pulled off the inlet manifold and checked the resistance of the CPS. it was 600ohms which seemed ok (bentley says the m50 should be 1000 odd but on here someone said that this is incorrect and it should be roughly the same as the m20 540ohms?). I didn't think this was the problem as I had spark anyhow but didn't know what else to check.

I've also checked the signals at the ECU plug and they all seem fine. All the grounds are there, the main supply, fuel pump relay comes on at initial start up etc.

I tried jumping the fuel pump relay again and turned the car over but it still doesn't start.

Now and again it will fire on a couple of cylinders or more but wont actually start.

Battery has been charged several times!

Sorry its long but I wanted to get everything I've done in. I'll add to it if I remember anything else. I hope someone can shed some light as I'm desperate to get it running now.

Yours Hopefully!

31Hertz
11-16-2006, 08:41 AM
Perhaps I am simplistic to suggest: have you changed the fuel filter? When you pulled the plugs, were they soaked with gas? Do a fuel pressure test? Anyone else with ideas?

royal
11-16-2006, 08:44 AM
Tbh I havn't replaced the fuel filter, and know I should have. Would this actually stop it from running?

The plugs didn't seem that wet but I could smell fuel from the cylinders. I left them to dry for a bit before putting them back.

Maybe I need to check the injectors then? Is there an easy way to check them? I'm off to check my Bentley manual in the car.

Thanks for the reply, all help much appreciated!

royal
11-16-2006, 08:52 AM
Ooh there is something important I forgot:

I can't do a stomp diagnostics test for some reason. I press the pedal 5 times and nothing happens. I'm not even sure where the engine check light is so maybe the bulb has been taken out by the previous owner? Could someone tell me where it is and what it looks like? and if theres any way of confirming.

shogun
11-16-2006, 09:02 AM
Is that a US spec. car or European?
If not a US spec. car, not possible to make a stomp test.
I recommend you to buy a PEAKE tool.
www.peakeresearch.com

Have you checked the fusible link?
http://www.bmwe34.net/e34main/maintenance/electrical/fusible_link.htm

We just solved a similar problem on an 850, 6 months the owner tried, read this
http://www.bimmer.info/forum/showthread.php?t=27721

royal
11-16-2006, 09:13 AM
Its a UK/European car. Thanks I'll check those links now. Wouldn't it all be dead if it was the fusable link?

royal
11-16-2006, 09:24 AM
Just looking at the 850 problem now. I have wondered about the imobiliser. Everytime I do anything I have to switch the alarm on and off to crank the car to see if it starts. I ended up temporarily cutting the red siren wire to stop it going off and waking up the owners of the drive where it is at the moment.


Could someone clarify this for me:

Not sure if youve searched the archives but I had a 'no start' problem that was initially intermittant and then permanent. It was a faulty body control module giving an erroneous 'immobilise' signal to the EML's.
There are a few parallels. I also had problems reading the codes with a scanner. Most of the time I got nothing at all.
The solution was to cut the two immobilising wires to the EML's. I cut them just before the EML plugs in the EML 'black box'. If I remember correctly they were black with a violet stripe. Check the archives.
The car started immediately and ran faultlessly when they were cut.
I initially thought it was a faulty alarm module giving the signal but eventually found it to be the body control module. The alarm signal passes through this module.
Its just an idea and something that is very easy to try out and eliminate. If this isnt the problem, just re-connect the two wires.

I'm not used to the mnemonics yet, what is the EML? Can I do the same on a 1995 525i tourer?

Ross
11-16-2006, 09:47 AM
Since you have stated that it runs with atarting fluid your fuel system seems the culprit.
Be sure you are jumping the correct relay, you wouldn't be the first one to confuse them. Switch with a known good relay to be sure. Check the connections and esp. ground for the pump.
It's unlikely a fuel filter would be that clogged but if you don't know when it was changed then you probably should.
Do you have an aftermarket alarm? These have been known to cause trouble. I always remove them from any car I own if so equipped at purchase.

Ross
11-16-2006, 09:51 AM
You're not out of gas, right?

royal
11-16-2006, 10:01 AM
no mate, I've got an almost tank full. I've been up to my arm pits in it changing the fuel pumps as I've not got anything to drain it with.

shogun
11-16-2006, 10:07 AM
Your car does not have EML.
You only have an ECU or MOTRONIC.
EML explained
http://www.europeantransmissions.com/Bulletin/DTC.BMW/EML-BMW.pdf

Aftermarket alarm/imobilizer, as Ross says, is also a suspect.
Remember one case on roadfly, where the old system was still in and an additional system was installed by previous owner. Took us 2 weeks to solve that mystery.

shogun
11-16-2006, 10:12 AM
To drain the fuel/gas from the tank: there is a small drain plug at the bottom.

royal
11-16-2006, 10:12 AM
Ross: Thanks for the input.

Since you have stated that it runs with atarting fluid your fuel system seems the culprit.


The RAC guy tried to start it with starting fluid and it wouldn't start.

Be sure you are jumping the correct relay, you wouldn't be the first one to confuse them. Switch with a known good relay to be sure. Check the connections and esp. ground for the pump.

The white main relay has been replaced, also has the large red wire going into it.
The blue fuel pump one hasn't been replaced but I can hear the fuel on top of the engine around the pressure regulator area when I jump it.
The third relay nearest the outside has been replaced (not sure what it is?)

It's unlikely a fuel filter would be that clogged but if you don't know when it was changed then you probably should.

Do you have an aftermarket alarm? These have been known to cause trouble. I always remove them from any car I own if so equipped at purchase.


I'm not sure if its an aftermarket one or not. I think its original. I'll have to check




Also I've checked the big fusable link next to the battery under the rear seat and its good.

royal
11-16-2006, 10:15 AM
Ok, that will get the contaminated fuel thing checked. I don't know what I can drain it into, there's £50 of fuel in there. I nearly got my swimming shorts on when I changed the pump.

shogun
11-16-2006, 10:17 AM
Fusible link: I hope you checked the right one. In my car there are 2. A big black one next to the battery and another one about 50 cm away from the battery on a cable together with the plus cable, wrapped in heat shrink plastic.
The guy with the 850 also made the mistake first when we said to him to check the fusible link, he had 2 and checked the wrong one. Read the last part once more of the 850 story.

I am not that familiar witth your model, more with the E32 and E31, so maybe someone can chime in with regards to the number of fusible links on this car.

royal
11-16-2006, 10:21 AM
Ok, I'm just going to have another look. I'll take a couple of pictures as there was another bit with a fuse that was broken before.

shogun
11-16-2006, 10:21 AM
There are 2 different tanks, check out for the plug, the metal tank's one is # 3
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/partgrp.do?model=HJ52&mospid=47393&hg=16&fg=05

O.k., make the pics, I will have a look tomorrow, here in Japan we already have 1 AM, but there are other people in other parts of the world which go online now.

Ross
11-16-2006, 11:00 AM
Guess I misunderstood the starting fluid part. I wish there were a spot to connect a pressure guage on these things!
If you have spark and are convinced there is fuel then a mechanical issue is next.

royal
11-16-2006, 11:21 AM
Righto, here's a couple of pictures. First the alarm system, its a bmw one with a bmw keyfob with one button on so seems standard.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a261/monaghanroyal/DSC00046.jpg

And now what I presume is the fusable link. The connection across it is fine. The second circled fuse was broken and I've replaced it with another 10A fuse. I'm not sure what it is for. Seems too low an amperage to be the ones referred to on the 850 thread. Does anyone know if there's a similar second fuse on the 1995 525i?

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a261/monaghanroyal/fusablelink2.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a261/monaghanroyal/fusablelink1.jpg


Also I found this loose wire. The cable goes to a black plastic box with a pcb inside. The box is about 4 or 5 inches long.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a261/monaghanroyal/loosewire.jpg

royal
11-17-2006, 06:21 AM
Does anyone else have any suggestions? I'm banging my head against a wall here. I'm going to empty the tank today once I've got some containers to get the contaminated fuel option out of the way.

royal
11-17-2006, 10:25 AM
Sorry to keep bumping this up but I'm hoping someone might have a brainwave.

I've just removed the injector rail and put jars under the injectors to confirm they are spraying fuel. They all looked fine. If the fuel is being sprayed does this confirm that fuel pressure is high enough?

Seeing as everything is present I can't understand why the car doesn't run.

- Got fuel being sprayed from the injectors (and therefore pump and relays all ok)
- There's spark at the plugs when I remove the coils and ground them whilst cranking (is it worth trying new plugs, or does the presence of spark indicate everything is ok? I'm just drying them out now)
- CPS sensor tested ok resistance


The only thing I havn't done now is drain the tank and try new fuel, hopefully I'll get the containers today to do it. The fuel in the tank looked clear as far as I could see, and it certainly smelt of fuel!

royal
11-19-2006, 02:09 PM
Just to let you guys know. I've just spent the afternoon handpumping what must be 60ltrs of fuel out of the car, and put some new fuel in. Lo and behold after cranking it for a bit and letting the new fuel run through the bl**dy thing started! Looks like the recovery guy was correct. I don't know where I stand legally with this? the garage is a busy garage and insisted there were no other problems when I first called them. I still have the fuel so could get it tested I suppose. It looks ok which is strange, it isn't milky with water or anything. Thanks to the guys who answered the posts, its appreciatted.

Ross
11-19-2006, 03:23 PM
Happy to hear you got to the cause and that the car is OK. Probably a good idea to change the filter now and use some additive to disperse water.
You could just "give" the fuel back to the station owner directly in his gastank.