E34 or E39 ? Where did BMW go wrong ?

[Zeuk in Oz]

Have owned my E 39 528iTA for a week now and last night I had a late night call so had to choose which car to take - both were parked next to each other :

I chose the E 34 !

After a week I am amazed at the performance (and frugality) of the 2.8 double vanos engine. I am also amazed at the car's fantastic brakes, its tightness and the precision of its handling and ultimate roadholding, its ventilation system, seats, all its power mirrors and other power items, its quietness, refinement and safety gear etc etc.....

But I still prefer to drive the manual, 18 year old E 34 with its M20 motor. Its poise and lightness results in a chuckability that the E 39 doesn't get close to.

In fact the E 34 is better than a new E 90 I drove last week - manual 320i with sports package !

And I put most of it down to its amazing rear suspension - it really is out of the box !

If only the rest of the car could be modernised to match !

BMW - where did you go so wrong ?

[Omega]

I chose the E 34 !

Interesting view!

When I purchased my e39 I had about 2 weeks living with both the e39 and the e34 and much prefer driving the e39.

Although it's a touring, the e39 feels (and actually is) much more "cuckable". I hated driving the e34 on damp roads due to it's skittish nature. The e39 just takes everything I can throw at it.


BMW - where did you go so wrong ?

In my view they didn't! The e39 is a vast improvement over the e34.

[Stacy (Sydney)]

e39 doors moving about while driving - have either of you noticed this, can you hear it ?
I've read that e39's wear through door seals for this reason. This thread could get interesting ...

[Paul in NZ]

I hated driving the e34 on damp roads due to it's skittish nature.
Skittish???
Thats the absolutely last word i would use to describe my 535 on any road,wet dry smooth or bumpy

[JerseySi]

Not driven an E39, but I.M.O. it'd have to be pretty bloody good to beat the E34..
The only time I can say my 535 was 'less than planted to the road' is wet greasy roads before I replaced my 'racing' slick rear tyres - even then it wasn't so much skittish, more just a slideways monster :D

[ron_va]

Have owned my E 39 528iTA for a week now and last night I had a late night call so had to choose which car to take - both were parked next to each other :

I chose the E 34 !

After a week I am amazed at the performance (and frugality) of the 2.8 double vanos engine. I am also amazed at the car's fantastic brakes, its tightness and the precision of its handling and ultimate roadholding, its ventilation system, seats, all its power mirrors and other power items, its quietness, refinement and safety gear etc etc.....

But I still prefer to drive the manual, 18 year old E 34 with its M20 motor. Its poise and lightness results in a chuckability that the E 39 doesn't get close to.

In fact the E 34 is better than a new E 90 I drove last week - manual 320i with sports package !

And I put most of it down to its amazing rear suspension - it really is out of the box !

If only the rest of the car could be modernised to match !

BMW - where did you go so wrong ?

Time and Change are inevitable--i hate to admit it, but i'm even starting to like the new 5er--i know, blasphemy.
I've owned both the e34, and now the e39. Like you i had both for about a month until i sold the e34. They are both great cars and the essential BMW'ness of them is similar, but there are distinct differences.
The e34 was only about 100lbs lighter than the e39, yet it feels about 1000 lbs lighter when driving it. Lighter is only useful on great roads. Overall the e39 is a more refined car, quieter, smoother, and feels more "planted," with a better suspension. I had Bilstein Tourings and a 1" drop on my e34 and thought it couldn't get any better. My e39 has the Sport Package, and even the best set-up on an e34 will only come close. I personally think it's due to the wider stance and longer wheelbase.
Where i agree with you Zeuk is the overall styling and driver involvement. At an intersection, i'm more likely to check out a great looking e34 vs. an e39. The chisled body is just classic BMW, and i still hate BMW for killing the L-shaped taillights on my e39 (The freakin' wagon owners got 'em!). The rounded e39, while still very BMW, started to look more like the offerings from other carmakers. They even caved and put the hinges at the other end of the hood! The newest 5er is even more Pontiac G-car looking. :(
The cockpit on the e34 is sparse in comparison to the e39, but it's a matter of personal taste. I always liked the e34 because of that, and i honestly don't adjust or need half the buttons my e39 has. Because it is a more advanced design, with nearly 20 on-board computers, there's less the driver can control or feel when accelerating or braking hard into a turn. The e34 always gave you some feedback, that bimmer buzz in the steering wheel, or the whoosh of the shocks as you loaded them.
Like i've said before in these old vs. new threads, here's how to boost BMW sales 3X over. Take Chris Bangle out drinking, and get him lost for the week. Approve the retro design of the e34 on an e39 or e60 chassis. The classic 5er on a stretched wheelbase, slightly wider and lower, with xenons and LED L-shaped taillights. Tweek the interior only a little, offer only the straight-6 3.0L, and bring the whole thing in for a fair price. I think the lines would form around the showroom.

[ILoveMPower]

Like i've said before in these old vs. new threads, here's how to boost BMW sales 3X over. Take Chris Bangle out drinking, and get him lost for the week. Approve the retro design of the e34 on an e39 or e60 chassis. The classic 5er on a stretched wheelbase, slightly wider and lower, with xenons and LED L-shaped taillights. Tweek the interior only a little, offer only the straight-6 3.0L, and bring the whole thing in for a fair price. I think the lines would form around the showroom.

Well, it appears I have a new fantasy to dream about :)

[CharlesAFerg]

I hated driving the e34 on damp roads due to it's skittish nature.

You need new tires dude.

[pundit]

I've been thinking about taking an E39 for a test drive... if only to cure my curiosity!
There's a 528i for sale at a yard on my way to work.
I've sat in it a few times and looked under the hood etc.

A few impressions...

1. E39's don't feel as well constructed as an E34.
I'm not saying they're badly built, they're not, it's just the E34 feels almost over engineered by comparison.
In fact I'm yet to find a car (that's affordable) that feels as well constructed as an E34.

2. Styling wise, E39's just don't look as good as an E34.
Just stick a set of decent wheels on a E34 ('T' Stars or 'M' Paras) and it looks the goods.
Drop it an inch and a half as well and and it'll look fantastic.
An E39 however needs more work to look sexy.
The only E39's that don't on the dull side are the 'M' Sport versions and a slightly tricked out E34 still looks better IMO.

3. I'd really like a 2001 E39 'M' Sport 530, but at close to $50,000 I'll think I'll pass! :(

If my E34 had the interior quietness of an E39 and the fuel economy of the 530 dual vanos six then I never sell it!

[Zeuk in Oz]

I will be keeping both so it is not a matter of having made a mistake. I knew full well what the E39 was like when I bought it.

On a long country trip there is no doubt I would choose the E39 every time, I probably just didn't fully realise how good the E34 is until I owned both.

I still cannot get over the E39's brakes - wow !

The issue, from my perspective, is that the E39 has all the safety gear that will hopefully keep one of my sons alive when they have the massive prang they are statistically likely to have. Or perhaps even avoid that prang.

Also I have trouble with the primitive ventilation system on the E34 compared with the E39.

I would say that the E39's limits are much higher than the E34, its just that I don't drive at those speeds. Driving to the shops and back, the E34 is more fun !

In summary, what probably surprises me most is how different they are, yet compared with other marques, how similar.

[Zeuk in Oz]

e39 doors moving about while driving - have either of you noticed this, can you hear it ?
I've read that e39's wear through door seals for this reason. This thread could get interesting ...
This is my one and only complaint - wasn't expecting it.
Anyone have a fix other than replacing the door seals ? - silicone spray made no difference.

[Zeuk in Oz]

Time and Change are inevitable.......The e34 was only about 100lbs lighter than the e39, yet it feels about 1000 lbs lighter when driving it. Lighter is only useful on great roads. Overall the e39 is a more refined car, quieter, smoother, and feels more "planted," with a better suspension. I had Bilstein Tourings and a 1" drop on my e34 and thought it couldn't get any better. My e39 has the Sport Package, and even the best set-up on an e34 will only come close. I personally think it's due to the wider stance and longer wheelbase.
Your description says it all - it is 100 lbs lighter but feels 1000 lbs lighter - exactly right.

My E39 is a touring but also has the sports package and I must admit I love the seats - unbelievably supportive.

Perhaps BMW have just reduced the fuss yet at the same time increased the limits !

Either car, though, is well worth driving and better than any other "drivers" cars that I could ever afford.

Cheers,

pig in mud :D

[Yiorgos]

I haven't driven an E39 before, and to tell you the truth I am not as 'learned' about it in terms of stats, general information etc as I am with the E34 (naturally, since I own the latter).

So you say the E39 brakes are better than the E34? The E34 has the best brakes I have ever used on a car -- there hasn't been a time where I have had tyre squeal when braking, and I sometimes brake late as well.

The stats of the E34's braking distance can be found here: http://www.autopower.se/modellguiden/e34.asp , under the heading "Teknikens Värld om E34", examine 100-0 column (values are in metres).

If the E39 is better than the E34 in terms of brakes, then all I can say is Wow!

The E39 has the goods when it comes to the interior (I have at least sat in one!) but I love the E34 more when it comes to the fundamental design -- driver-centric controls that are pointed towards the driver, the minimal knobs and switches to 'just get the job done'. Having said that, an E39 with a satnav screen is very tasty, but the interior overall looks more like any other mid-90s european car -- the E34's interior IMO is more BMWesque.

The only E39 I would consider buying is a 2001-onwards 530i Sport or higher, but as pundit stated (I think it was pundit?) at $50-$60k AUD, they're not cheap. Also the fear of if a cup holder breaks you replace the computer (ok maybe not that bad) is a turn off for me. On the other hand, I would consider buying ANY E34 -- except for the 518i and 520i!

For what it's worth, I have never lost control of my E34 -- ever. Dry, wet, hail, storm, and it doesn't snow here. I'm using Bridgestone Turanzas over 15" basketweaves, not the ultimate combination but it works fine for me.

[Denton]

I've driven just about every newer BMW, and do prefer the newer ones, although they're completely foreign compared to the E34.

The E39 is a different car than the E34, in that it's a bit more Lexus-like. It's not as "in touch" with the road as the E34, but that's the point. It's more refined.

I love my E34, but would love an E39 too.

Believe it or not, one of my favorite BMWs is just the E90 328i Sport. If I don't ever do an Audi A3 2.0T, it'll probably be an E90. Great car.

[Atl530i]

I've owned my E34 530i for 3 years now. I acutally bought my BMW on Thanksgiving 2003, so I had a lot to be thankful for as my Nissan was wrecked a week later.

The E34 is the last "classic" BMW. The head lights in the grills, L-shaped tail lights, and the front mounted hinged just to name a few. When I first looked at my 530i, I was amazed at the 3 litre V8 as I had never seen one. That in itself was a selling point.

The E39 on the other hand is an extremely nice vehicle. The interior is very nice and the overall car is nice. To me though, it looks fat around the fenders. The only front bumper that appeals to me though is the M Sport/M5 bumpers. The regular bumpers also make the E39 look fat.

The powerplants of the E39 though are awesome. Also some of the wheels the E39 has are cool too. But these are probably the only features that appeal to me.

I test drove an E39 530iA for about a half hour earlier this year as I am currently looking for another BMW. I took it on the highway and some good corner cutting roads to put it thru it's paces. I was very impressed with it but I felt a little isolated from the road. It was probably because I'm used to alittle more bump that the E34 has. I guess that is just me though. The brakes are excellent on the E39, but I upgraded all the brakes on my E34 and it was basically the same.

I'd much rather take an E34 530i over an E39 530i anyday just because it has the V8. My co-workers and some of my friends do not believe me when I say that it has a 3 litre V8. Even some of the car sales people think it is a 6 cylinder. The extra 10 horsepower that the E39 530i has doesn't make any difference also.

You also know what they say, when an older car looks just as good or better then a newer car. The older car is going to get more heads turning to its direction. So far, I've had quite a few offers for the car. I've even had some guy get out of his car behind me in rush hour traffic, walk up to my car and make an offer.

[Denton]

You also know what they say, when an older car looks just as good or better then a newer car. The older car is going to get more heads turning to its direction. So far, I've had quite a few offers for the car. I've even had some guy get out of his car behind me in rush hour traffic, walk up to my car and make an offer.

Agree with the whole post, and most certainly this.

I'll never forget pulling up to the Bimmer Store in Atlanta, which also has Lamborghini/Lotus of Atlanta. I had my E34 for a whole day, and it was funny pulling up in an old BMW to go drool over all these hyper-expensive cars. I parked between a new Ford GT40 and a newer Lotus Esprit.

I didn't even think about my car, until a salesman asked, "Is that your 5 series?"

I was thinking he was going to say "Get this thing off our lot!" but instead he goes on and on about how great the E34 is and how it's such a timeless car. The salesman himself drove a 2001 740i Sport, Black/Black.

Neat to meet another guy who can appreciate a neo-classic BMW.

[Atl530i]

Agree with the whole post, and most certainly this.

I'll never forget pulling up to the Bimmer Store in Atlanta, which also has Lamborghini/Lotus of Atlanta. I had my E34 for a whole day, and it was funny pulling up in an old BMW to go drool over all these hyper-expensive cars. I parked between a new Ford GT40 and a newer Lotus Esprit.

I didn't even think about my car, until a salesman asked, "Is that your 5 series?"

I was thinking he was going to say "Get this thing off our lot!" but instead he goes on and on about how great the E34 is and how it's such a timeless car. The salesman himself drove a 2001 740i Sport, Black/Black.

Neat to meet another guy who can appreciate a neo-classic BMW.

That is funny. That is where I bought my E34 :) From the Bimmer Store off Roswell road. Kind of funny because I picked that car out of a bunch of really nice cars and that is the one that appeals to me the most.

[BigTed00]

on a similar note, my first real kill came today against a e39 525

Started from a roll at about 40mph in 3rd gear. By the time I hit fith it was obvious that I was the winner, about half a car length and pulling. Shut down at around 115ish. It was a nice run, I still would takehte e34 over e39 anyday

[Atl530i]

on a similar note, my first real kill came today against a e39 525

Started from a roll at about 40mph in 3rd gear. By the time I hit fith it was obvious that I was the winner, about half a car length and pulling. Shut down at around 115ish. It was a nice run, I still would takehte e34 over e39 anyday

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