Problem starting- twice after sitting for several hours

[bbig119]

I drove the car into the city yesterday because I needed it after work to drive up to Trenton for dinner. The car didn't start. It would turn over, shutter and die. It did this maybe 10 times and the length of time the engine tried turning over varied. Finally I got it started, and everything was fine. It started up on the first time leaving the restaurant to head home. This morning, the car did the same thing, it took a good ten or so tries before I got the engine up and running.

I haven't noticed anything like this before, but I'm curious if I may have gotten a bad tank of gas yesterday when I went to go fill up.

Any suggestions or ideas?

Thanks

[silver-e34]

do you have the nikasil block ?

[bbig119]

nope, alusil swapped in about 100k ago.

[E34-520iSE]

I wonder if you're having the same problem as me - fuel syphoning back down the pipes to the tank? When I go to start mine from cold it'll fire immediately on the petrol in the fuel rail, then just crank and crank until the pump can push the fuel up to the injectors when it splurbles, blurbles and then runs fine.

HTH,

Shaun M

[92E34]

I'm thinking its the fuel pump relay.

Any codes?

[bbig119]

Haven't had a chance to check codes, will do that tonight.

[Rodericb]

I had the similar problem. I don't know if this is the same problem but I was having problems after the car warmed up. In the morning, it would start up on the first try. After driving the car and parking it for maybe an hour, it would take a while for it to start. I tried the procedure form Bruno's website and haven't had the problem since. http://www.bmwe34.net/e34main/trouble/535ihot_start.asp

[Fetch]

To test for fuel rail loosing pressure, instead of starting it like you normally do, turn the key to on for a few seconds, then completely off, then on for a few seconds, and repeat this a few more times before engaging the starter, this will give the pump plenty of time to pressurize the rail if it is leaking.

However, your problem is sporadic sounding so it would be hard to know if this test was telling you anything.

[E34-520iSE]

I don't want to steer things too OT from bbig119's thread but I have a question. What controls the fuel pump? If I switch my ignition on without trying to start the car, the fuel pump is inaudible. I know that's normal, so I presume the ECU tells it when to pump.

Sorry for hijacking the thread!

Shaun M

[bbig119]

no problem on the hijack....

Just to clear it up because I may not have decribed the problem well enough in the OP. The first time the problem appeared, yesterday-- I drove into work early in the morning- no problems at all(did fill up though). Parked on the street for about 10-10.5 hours. It had the issue starting at this time. Drove to restaurant without problem, was parked there for roughly 2 hours. Car started up no problem on first try and drove home without problem. It was parked overnight, and I had the problem again this morning after it sat for about 10 hours again.

I'll find out more when I go home tonight, and I'll post any codes.

But nobody thinks it could be bad gas? I have gone to this place before. I'm in NJ, so an attendant has to do the pumping, would I see a problem if he mistakenly put in regular instead of premium? I doubt that happened though.

[bbig119]

Stomp test threw code 1213 - Lambda Control #2. I did a little digging and it has something to do with O2 sensor, although many(Jeff in particular) strongly suggest checking for vaccum leaks. Symptoms for this code appear in line. I've had check engine light come on cold mornings while the car is still cold at the first traffic light while idling. When pulling away from the light it goes away.

I'm still unsure if this code is related to my issues with starting the car, although a vaccum leak certainly could cause such a problem I believe.

The car started on the first try tonight, so no chance of debugging the problem-- just something to keep an eye out for. If I get some time, daylight and reasonable weather I'll go poking around to see if I can identify any potential leaks.

[bsell]

Stomp test threw code 1213 - Lambda Control #2. I did a little digging and it has something to do with O2 sensor, although many(Jeff in particular) strongly suggest checking for vaccum leaks. Symptoms for this code appear in line. I've had check engine light come on cold mornings while the car is still cold at the first traffic light while idling. When pulling away from the light it goes away.

I'm still unsure if this code is related to my issues with starting the car, although a vaccum leak certainly could cause such a problem I believe.

The car started on the first try tonight, so no chance of debugging the problem-- just something to keep an eye out for. If I get some time, daylight and reasonable weather I'll go poking around to see if I can identify any potential leaks.

I wonder if some kind of crud got caught in the fuel pressure regulator just enough to cause the fuel pressure to bleed off over 10+ hours. I am thinking this is a really small piece or it could be coincidence.

The O2 sensor code makes me wonder how much the engine control unit reacts to the input from the O2 sensor during a cold start... Most O2 sensors need a bit of warming up to work so the cold start program runs without input from the exhaust gases. But since you have the codes that the O2 sensor is out of limits, I would replace it anyway.

Brian

[TomAC65]

If you have an Ohm meter you might want to test out the Crank Position Sensor. My car had similar symptoms for about a week before it died completely. It only took me about an hour to put a new one in and then it started right up.