Been gone a long time, and need some E34 help

[Matt P]

Hi everyone,

I've been out of pretty much everything for quite a while now, and I'm trying to crawl my way back into something resembling a normal life. How bad is it? I dropped my E34 M5 Touring off at the shop LAST YEAR, and I still haven't had the time to go back and get it. Yea, it's that bad.

My story's a simple one: Back in December my wife, Lisa, went on 24-hour a day bedrest until our son (second child) was born in late January. Only it got worse from there: something went very wrong with my wife's recovery. On the physical side it peaked when 6 weeks after delivery I was taking her at 3am to the hospital with a blood pressure of 220 over 190. She's gotten slowly better since then, but she's still not out of the woods yet. On the mental side, post partum has been rather rough on her. And did I mention that when you look up colic in the dictionary there is a picture of my son? Add to that some serious job pressures and there you have it -- not enough time and consciousness to even think much about my M5, or any of the other cars or even hang out here on the forum. but life gets a little better each day.. usually... ok, well 4 out of 7 and I call it a good week.

And this is where you guys can help me out. One of the reasons my M5 is still in the shop (BMS in Ft. Worth) is that I was hoping to have them do an aftermarket stereo install for me in early January... though when everything blew up, I failed to get the needed materials together for them. I've got the head unit, that's no problem (it's a 60gb RioCar/Empeg).. What's got me stymied is the speaker situation (and then what amp I will need). I'm trying to find a good resource to unravel the E34's speaker setup.

I've hit the web and checked out places like bmwe34.net and read what I can, but I am still confused on a few things. So here are my current assumptions and questions, and perhaps some of you can help set me straight. Please jump in on anything you know is wrong. I'm really not very knowledgeable in this area.

Front Speakers: As I understand it, each side of the OEM setup has 3 *individual* speakers, which make up the equivalent of a 3-way component speaker (which would have 2 crossovers for bass, midrange and tweeter). I'm assuming the crossovers in the OEM setup are integrated into the OEM amp. Is all of this correct so far?

I still a bit confused about component speakers - are they installed as separate speakers in separate locations, or are they stacked together to form a single unit, or are both configurations to be found?

Ok, then, if I replace the OEM speaker setup in the front, do I need to find a 3-way/3-speaker setup, or will a 2-way/2-speaker setup without anything where the OEM midrange speaker is still have good sound imaging?

Rear speakers: The OEM setup is just a 2-speaker per side version of the front, right? or is the smaller speaker a midrange + tweeter combined into a single unit?

Only, I've got a kicker: My touring doesn't have the rear midrange/tweeter/whatever the smaller speakers are on the front edge of the headliner dropdown. It just has a pair of 6 1/2" circular speakers mounted into the middle of the headliner. So I'm assuming I need a 2-way or 3-way combo speakers for them. Ok, fine, but does anyone know the max depth for this (2 rear speakers total in E34 touring) setup?

Finally, the Amp. As I understand it, the OEM amp was basically a 4-way/channel amp that integrated the speaker crossovers for each corner.

So I am assuming that if I replace the speakers with ones that have crossovers that have to be mounted near the speakers, then any old 4 channel amp will do (you know what I mean). i.e just run a channel output from the amp to each crossover set, and then out to the individual speakers.

Finally, I would like to go with a nice, but not ridiculously high-end set of speakers. I've seen MB Quartz mentioned a lot. Can anyone recommend a particular set/series/models of that, or any other brand, which would not be to crazy to install (remember my rear setup will need a single unit per side).

Amp recommendations or advice would welcome too. I've removed the previous owner's aftermarket CD-Changer, so I have the whole area where the OEM amp and CD changer normally goes to install in.

Thanks to all who take the trouble to read this, and even more to those who have some advice.

Regards,

[Bill R.]

Hi everyone,

I've been out of pretty much everything for quite a while now, and I'm trying to crawl my way back into something resembling a normal life. How bad is it? I dropped my E34 M5 Touring off at the shop LAST YEAR, and I still haven't had the time to go back and get it. Yea, it's that bad.

My story's a simple one: Back in December my wife, Lisa, went on 24-hour a day bedrest until our son (second child) was born in late January. Only it got worse from there: something went very wrong with my wife's recovery. On the physical side it peaked when 6 weeks after delivery I was taking her at 3am to the hospital with a blood pressure of 220 over 190. She's gotten slowly better since then, but she's still not out of the woods yet. On the mental side, post partum has been rather rough on her. And did I mention that when you look up colic in the dictionary there is a picture of my son? Add to that some serious job pressures and there you have it -- not enough time and consciousness to even think much about my M5, or any of the other cars or even hang out here on the forum. but life gets a little better each day.. usually... ok, well 4 out of 7 and I call it a good week.

And this is where you guys can help me out. One of the reasons my M5 is still in the shop (BMS in Ft. Worth) is that I was hoping to have them do an aftermarket stereo install for me in early January... though when everything blew up, I failed to get the needed materials together for them. I've got the head unit, that's no problem (it's a 60gb RioCar/Empeg).. What's got me stymied is the speaker situation (and then what amp I will need). I'm trying to find a good resource to unravel the E34's speaker setup.

I've hit the web and checked out places like bmwe34.net and read what I can, but I am still confused on a few things. So here are my current assumptions and questions, and perhaps some of you can help set me straight. Please jump in on anything you know is wrong. I'm really not very knowledgeable in this area.

Front Speakers: As I understand it, each side of the OEM setup has 3 *individual* speakers, which make up the equivalent of a 3-way component speaker (which would have 2 crossovers for bass, midrange and tweeter). I'm assuming the crossovers in the OEM setup are integrated into the OEM amp. Is all of this correct so far?

I still a bit confused about component speakers - are they installed as separate speakers in separate locations, or are they stacked together to form a single unit, or are both configurations to be found?

Ok, then, if I replace the OEM speaker setup in the front, do I need to find a 3-way/3-speaker setup, or will a 2-way/2-speaker setup without anything where the OEM midrange speaker is still have good sound imaging?

Rear speakers: The OEM setup is just a 2-speaker per side version of the front, right? or is the smaller speaker a midrange + tweeter combined into a single unit?

Only, I've got a kicker: My touring doesn't have the rear midrange/tweeter/whatever the smaller speakers are on the front edge of the headliner dropdown. It just has a pair of 6 1/2" circular speakers mounted into the middle of the headliner. So I'm assuming I need a 2-way or 3-way combo speakers for them. Ok, fine, but does anyone know the max depth for this (2 rear speakers total in E34 touring) setup?

Finally, the Amp. As I understand it, the OEM amp was basically a 4-way/channel amp that integrated the speaker crossovers for each corner.

So I am assuming that if I replace the speakers with ones that have crossovers that have to be mounted near the speakers, then any old 4 channel amp will do (you know what I mean). i.e just run a channel output from the amp to each crossover set, and then out to the individual speakers.

Finally, I would like to go with a nice, but not ridiculously high-end set of speakers. I've seen MB Quartz mentioned a lot. Can anyone recommend a particular set/series/models of that, or any other brand, which would not be to crazy to install (remember my rear setup will need a single unit per side).

Amp recommendations or advice would welcome too. I've removed the previous owner's aftermarket CD-Changer, so I have the whole area where the OEM amp and CD changer normally goes to install in.

Thanks to all who take the trouble to read this, and even more to those who have some advice.

Regards,

[Shaun]

Matt,

This is just how *I* went about upgrading the audio system in my 1995 540i, with the 3-Way/2-Way setup you mentioned above.

For the front stage, I was tempted to go with an aftermarket 3-Way setup (which WOULD provide superior sound, in my opinion), but the stock size of the midrange in the BMW is an odd size as far as aftermarket 3-Way systems are concerned (2.5" or 3"). Most utilize a 4" midrange, which, without some very nifty handy-work, probably wouldn't fit in the small dash location.

The other size difficulty in an aftermarket 3-Way would be the low-end. Most are 6.5", but I'm sure some 5.25" versions exist. I haven't seen any decent ones myself. Thus, I chose a simple seperate component set consisting of a 5.25" woofer and a 1" tweeter. I installed these in factory locations, and tapped into the existing BMW wiring.

I ended up using coaxials (your "stacked" setup, mentioned above) in the stock rear locations, passing up on the component set only due to lack of time for fabricating a proper tweeter bracket.

Everything uses factory wiring, tapped into the aftermarket amp at the factory amp harness.

In your situation, you could copy this setup, and get good sound, only using 6.5" in the rear instead of 5.25". As far as depth, I'm guessing maybe 2.75". Could be slightly less at 2.5". I have no direct experience with the Touring though.

MB Quart does make a fine speaker, however; Their 'so-so' line is not all that great. Similar performance can be had for much less money. Speakers and amps are very much a personal preference, but I'll tell you what I used.

My speakers (for both front and rear) are the Platinum line, made by Ultimate. They're decently priced, and have a good sound. They, as most companies do, market a lower and higher end. I bought the higher end series, and have had no issues with quality or sound.

My amps are the QX series, made by Phoenix Gold. This is probably more due to a personal affection towards this company than anything else, as I can name half a dozen amps that are of equal or better quality. But they were cheap, they look very clean, and they put out great sound without overheating.

Depending on your budget, PG makes some awesome gear. Same with Ultimate. The best advice is usually to go listen on your own to various brands/setups, but that doesn't seem like realistic advice in your situation.

So in lieu of that, here are some quality brands that have always gotten decent reviews that I've used myself. This is not a definitive list of what's good either, but here it is:

Kicker (amps), Phoenix Gold (amps/speakers), MB Quart (speakers), JL Audio (amps/speakers), Rockford Fosgate (amps/speakers), JBL (speakers), Pioneer Premier (amps).

Sorry for the long post, but I'm an audio nut and could ramble for hours...

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

[warton]

Wow Matt, I'm very sorry to hear about your wife's health problems and your colicky baby. :-( I suspect your family is extremely fortunate to have such a dedicated "head of family" as yourself. Best of luck - my thoughts are with you. Some answers to your questions below...


Hi everyone,

I've been out of pretty much everything for quite a while now, and I'm trying to crawl my way back into something resembling a normal life. How bad is it? I dropped my E34 M5 Touring off at the shop LAST YEAR, and I still haven't had the time to go back and get it. Yea, it's that bad.

My story's a simple one: Back in December my wife, Lisa, went on 24-hour a day bedrest until our son (second child) was born in late January. Only it got worse from there: something went very wrong with my wife's recovery. On the physical side it peaked when 6 weeks after delivery I was taking her at 3am to the hospital with a blood pressure of 220 over 190. She's gotten slowly better since then, but she's still not out of the woods yet. On the mental side, post partum has been rather rough on her. And did I mention that when you look up colic in the dictionary there is a picture of my son? Add to that some serious job pressures and there you have it -- not enough time and consciousness to even think much about my M5, or any of the other cars or even hang out here on the forum. but life gets a little better each day.. usually... ok, well 4 out of 7 and I call it a good week.

And this is where you guys can help me out. One of the reasons my M5 is still in the shop (BMS in Ft. Worth) is that I was hoping to have them do an aftermarket stereo install for me in early January... though when everything blew up, I failed to get the needed materials together for them. I've got the head unit, that's no problem (it's a 60gb RioCar/Empeg).. What's got me stymied is the speaker situation (and then what amp I will need). I'm trying to find a good resource to unravel the E34's speaker setup.

I've hit the web and checked out places like bmwe34.net and read what I can, but I am still confused on a few things. So here are my current assumptions and questions, and perhaps some of you can help set me straight. Please jump in on anything you know is wrong. I'm really not very knowledgeable in this area.

Front Speakers: As I understand it, each side of the OEM setup has 3 *individual* speakers, which make up the equivalent of a 3-way component speaker (which would have 2 crossovers for bass, midrange and tweeter). I'm assuming the crossovers in the OEM setup are integrated into the OEM amp. Is all of this correct so far?

All correct, the amp unit contains passive crossovers for the 3-way front drivers and 2-way rear drivers.


I still a bit confused about component speakers - are they installed as separate speakers in separate locations, or are they stacked together to form a single unit, or are both configurations to be found?

Not sure for the Euro M5 Touring, but in the sedan version of US e34s, the rear speakers are co-axial (driver and tweeter stacked).


Ok, then, if I replace the OEM speaker setup in the front, do I need to find a 3-way/3-speaker setup, or will a 2-way/2-speaker setup without anything where the OEM midrange speaker is still have good sound imaging?

Most people will agree that you're better off with a 2-way setup in front. There's a debate about placement of drivers - personally I favor locating mid-bass and tweeters close together in the kick panel, but other people have reported good results using the dash location for the tweeter, and still others seem to have managed to use the factory tweeter location successfully.



Rear speakers: The OEM setup is just a 2-speaker per side version of the front, right? or is the smaller speaker a midrange + tweeter combined into a single unit?

Only, I've got a kicker: My touring doesn't have the rear midrange/tweeter/whatever the smaller speakers are on the front edge of the headliner dropdown. It just has a pair of 6 1/2" circular speakers mounted into the middle of the headliner. So I'm assuming I need a 2-way or 3-way combo speakers for them. Ok, fine, but does anyone know the max depth for this (2 rear speakers total in E34 touring) setup?

I wish I could help here... in my US e34 Touring, the rear has separate drivers, with the mid-bass a down-firing 5.25" unit identical to those found in the front locations, and the tweeter a forward-firing unit also identical to the fronts. Even with this setup, I'd personally recommend co-axial in the rear - the forward-firing tweeter is too "hot" for a balanced sound otherwise, and the rear is (generally, from the audiophile's perspective) best used for fill and nothing more.



Finally, the Amp. As I understand it, the OEM amp was basically a 4-way/channel amp that integrated the speaker crossovers for each corner.

So I am assuming that if I replace the speakers with ones that have crossovers that have to be mounted near the speakers, then any old 4 channel amp will do (you know what I mean). i.e just run a channel output from the amp to each crossover set, and then out to the individual speakers.

Yep, that's correct. Once you get rid of the factory amp/crossover, it's like any other conventional car audio system. If you're installing separates, you can locate the (passive) xovers where you like.


Finally, I would like to go with a nice, but not ridiculously high-end set of speakers. I've seen MB Quartz mentioned a lot. Can anyone recommend a particular set/series/models of that, or any other brand, which would not be to crazy to install (remember my rear setup will need a single unit per side).

MB Quartz are very good. Focal, Dynaudio, Morel are my favorites (Dynaudio probably being at the top), but I haven't listed to much of the latest stuff. It's pretty hard to go wrong with any of those brands and I'm sure a dozen others, you just have to spend some time listening because there are differences to the "type" of sound and you'll likely prefer one over the rest.

BTW, are you planning to do anything for the low-end (sub)?


Amp recommendations or advice would welcome too. I've removed the previous owner's aftermarket CD-Changer, so I have the whole area where the OEM amp and CD changer normally goes to install in.

Thanks to all who take the trouble to read this, and even more to those who have some advice.

Regards,

Best of luck - keep us posted.

Regards,
Peter

[warton]

Didn't see this 'till after I posted...

Peter

[Matt P]

Most people will agree that you're better off with a 2-way setup in front. There's a debate about placement of drivers - personally I favor locating mid-bass and tweeters close together in the kick panel, but other people have reported good results using the dash location for the tweeter, and still others seem to have managed to use the factory tweeter location successfully.

The OEM midrange front speaker seems to be the oddball. I've kinda suspected it will be deleted in a new setup.



I wish I could help here... in my US e34 Touring, the rear has separate drivers, with the mid-bass a down-firing 5.25" unit identical to those found in the front locations, and the tweeter a forward-firing unit also identical to the fronts. Even with this setup, I'd personally recommend co-axial in the rear - the forward-firing tweeter is too "hot" for a balanced sound otherwise, and the rear is (generally, from the audiophile's perspective) best used for fill and nothing more.

When you say 'co-axial', you are referring to the line from the amp to the crossovers, no?



MB Quartz are very good. Focal, Dynaudio, Morel are my favorites (Dynaudio probably being at the top), but I haven't listed to much of the latest stuff. It's pretty hard to go wrong with any of those brands and I'm sure a dozen others, you just have to spend some time listening because there are differences to the "type" of sound and you'll likely prefer one over the rest.

Ok, this will proabably sound like I'm a cheapskate, but I'd like to limit my expendetures to about $600-$800 for speakers and amp. Am I going to find anything good to decent in that price range?



BTW, are you planning to do anything for the low-end (sub)?

Well, there should be enough room in the rear-side compartment for something else besides an amp. I've never cared much for anything other driver, or homeowners for that matter, can hear or feel. A little bass is nice, but I don't want to overdo it like every other teenager these days.

[Matt P]

Shaun,
That's exacly the kind of help I am needing. As I just mentioned, I'd like to not spend too much.. say $600 to $800 total. Am I doing myself a dis-service there?

6.5" 3-ways are probably just what I need in the rear, and some sort of 2 way component set for the fronts.

About the amps -- is heat something I have to worry about? All the amps I've browsed online seem to have cooling fins.

Also, a small sub-woofer that I could place right next to the amp seems like a good idea. (I think that's what my wife's 540iT has) I don't want anything protruding into the cargo area (it is a touring remember).

[Matt P]

Thanks guys. I'll check back in the morning,

I'm not sure what warton is chuckling about, but I'll guess that's its not toxic...

[warton]

The OEM midrange front speaker seems to be the oddball. I've kinda suspected it will be deleted in a new setup.

When you say 'co-axial', you are referring to the line from the amp to the crossovers, no?

Co-axial in this case refers to the design of speakers. In this case it means the tweeter is mounted 'above' the woofer, with their respective pole-pieces on the same axis (think concentric circles). Unfortunately, co-axial also refers to a class of cables used primarily for video signals in many homes. Sorry for not specifying...


Ok, this will proabably sound like I'm a cheapskate, but I'd like to limit my expendetures to about $600-$800 for speakers and amp. Am I going to find anything good to decent in that price range?

Ack, I'm going to sound like a horrible snob here, because I really haven't a clue what you'll find in that price range. I haven't done any research, but I'm quite sure there's good sounding stuff in that price range. And after all, it's a car not a home theater! ;-)


Well, there should be enough room in the rear-side compartment for something else besides an amp. I've never cared much for anything other driver, or homeowners for that matter, can hear or feel. A little bass is nice, but I don't want to overdo it like every other teenager these days.

I'm of the same mind. It's just that in my e34 Touring, 5.25" bass drivers are not able to overcome the ambient noise at anything over 25MPH, so eventually I'm going to put something in to boost the low end.

Peter

[Shaun]

Amps, especially for the subwoofer, can overheat if they don't have open space and air circulation. Most amps have auto-protect circuitry for this, and all you'll get is an annoyance, and a shorter lifespan.

For the most part, heat shouldn't be an issue, unless you're mounting the amp(s) under something or in a small space. I believe you are orrect in that most amps probably have fans these days (mine do).

I'd stay away from 3-Way co(tri?)-axials, and just find a good 2-Way. As Peter said, the rear drivers are mostly good for fill, and anything you spend in trying to make them otherwise is probably money better spent elsewhere. A good set of 2-Ways will do the same job as the 3-Ways anyhow.

Cost wise, I did my whole setup (minus the subwoofer) for under $700. This included:

2 sets of speakers (5.25"/tweeter components and 5.25" coaxials)
2 amplifiers (4 channel for the front/rear, 2 channel for my subwoofer)
Wiring/misc install stuff
Sub box (no sub)

I do think there are a couple options in the sub department, but I'm not sure how they fit into your budget. There's the ubiquitous Infinity 10" BassLink, which can be had for a couple hundred dollars (no need for a sub amp this way), and numerous house-brand 8" small-enclosure options.

The brands Peter mentioned are definitely the best of the best available, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find most of them workable in your budget. MB Quart does have mid and low budget ranges, but to my ear, they're not all that great.

Hope this helps!

[warton]

I'm not sure what warton is chuckling about, but I'll guess that's its not toxic...

warton == Peter Warton == me, to whom I assumed Bill R. was referring in his post. He probably used Ed's sneaky software to see that I was in the middle of responding to your post, and since audio is about the only on-topic subject I have anything potentially useful to contribute to around here, and the post was from Bill R, arguably the most valuable technical contributor on this forum (MHO)... Well it made me laugh. :)

Peter

[MicahO]

Sorry to hear about the health problems, and glad things are coming back on-line in that area. (I'm also glad that Peter and Shaun are able to help on the audio bits!)

[Matt P]

Thanks for the clarification, Peter. This stuff is getting less confusing...

[Tiger]

Front speakers are originally a 3 way setup but you will never find a 3 way speaker system to replace it... that midrange 2.5" speaker just doesn't exist in aftermarket world. A good two way component speaker set will do just nicely. As far as tweeter location, you can use the door location but I find it overly bright in sound quality. The better location for the tweeter would be by the woofer... mounted on surface aiming toward the center of the car by where your ears will be located.

The rear speakers are not important... a simple coaxial speaker is enough... we don't listen to what comes from the rear... they are mere a fill so it doesn't sound empty back there. Don't waste money on the rear speakers unless they are front-stage for rear passenger... meaning like front passenger... speaker in front of them.

I would definitely add a subwoofer for the bass... not a big one... 8" or 10" will do just fine. Sealed small enclosure according to speaker specs.

As for amps, you will have to rewire the speaker wires... to each location from the amp location and use the crossover that comes with component sets... and simply wire up the coax in the rear. You will need 5 channels or 6 channels amp if you are going to add a subwoofer... system sound better when using integrated amp... they are more in balance without the hassles of multiple amps.

Brands? I think MB are overpriced. Personally I am a bargain hunter... If I find speakers that are originally priced at $500... and selling at $200... I would snap it up like A/D/S (out of business) but awesome sounds... sweet and smooth. Don't spend too much.

Amps are the same story as speakers.. very subjective... and buy according to your budget... I prefer A/D/S, Soundstream, Precision... best to listen to the amps at the stores... I find that many brand name like Kenwood doesn't live up to its name... so it is best you listen to it.

Good luck and best wishes.