M60 engine trouble :(

[Traian]

Hahah, i brought this on myself by boasting about how amazing the M60 is :)

I got a CEL driving on the highway today, came after about 20 min driving so well after the engine was fully warmed up. Total loss of power, i couldn't rev it past 2000 anymore, it was losing speed on uphill grades, almost stalling at stop lights, and shaking real bad on idle. It never actually stalled though, but a couple of times it started crawling at like 2 mph, full throttle did nothing. The engine was missing everyhwere, and I heard it knock once, wow that sounded painful :( Switching it off and waiting a few min let me drive home.

I got code 1213 from the stomp test - oxygen sensor 2, 'running too rich', Bentley says check intake leaks. It's weird because otherwise the motor runs so smoothly, it's just missing horribly and erratically.

I took off the engine cover, and sprayed carb cleaner everywhere. Idle didn't change. I really doused everything, frong plate, rear plate, and all around where the manifold looks like it connects to the head, so around the red things that looked like the fuel injectors (?) and everywhere else, and it didn't make any difference. I also had the throttle body gasket replaced last winter, and the shop told me all the others were fine.

Bentley also suggests air flow sensor. I disconnected it and checked for ground on pin 1 and +ve voltage on pin 3 as they say, and both checked fine.

Now I'm stumped. I also ran a quick search on here, and most ppl seem to think it's the oxygen sensor itself. But shouldn't that throw a 1212 code (according to Bentley, 'faulty oxygen sensor')?

I don't like replacing stuff blindly, that's why I ask :)

Thanks y'all!

Edit: I'm gonna check my records and see if the O2 sensors were changed recently....

[632 Regal]

You might wan to poke around with the Crank Sensor while your at it. This time of year brings all kinds of intake leaks, myself included.

Reboot the computer before you drive it again, sometimes magic can happen :|

[BillionPa]

something in the fuel injection system could have failed, like the pressure regulator.

[Atl530i]

something in the fuel injection system could have failed, like the pressure regulator.

+1

Check all your sensors voltage. ohms, blah blah blah.

If your FPR is stuck close, then your going to get a lot of gas and run rich. If it is stuck open. then when you get to a stop light the pressure will drop and will cause the car to almost stall. This is from my experiance with the FPR on my Honda, except some retard put a screw in there and made it to where the gas mileage sucked.

[Bill R.]

Trajan, 1213 doesn't mean its too rich, it means the dme has detected excessive variation in the air fuel mixture, beyond what the o2 sensor can measure for a period of greater than 10 seconds.... It can be either rich or lean.
Since its only on one bank ,Cylinders 1-4, i would look at possible vacum leaks on that bank or see if the wiring harness going to the o2 sensor for that bank got damaged somehow. You didn't run over anything?
Since its one bank possible causes can be a stuck injector, low fuel pressure, airflow sensor problem etc.






Hahah, i brought this on myself by boasting about how amazing the M60 is :)

I got a CEL driving on the highway today, came after about 20 min driving so well after the engine was fully warmed up. Total loss of power, i couldn't rev it past 2000 anymore, it was losing speed on uphill grades, almost stalling at stop lights, and shaking real bad on idle. It never actually stalled though, but a couple of times it started crawling at like 2 mph, full throttle did nothing. The engine was missing everyhwere, and I heard it knock once, wow that sounded painful :( Switching it off and waiting a few min let me drive home.

I got code 1213 from the stomp test - oxygen sensor 2, 'running too rich', Bentley says check intake leaks. It's weird because otherwise the motor runs so smoothly, it's just missing horribly and erratically.

I took off the engine cover, and sprayed carb cleaner everywhere. Idle didn't change. I really doused everything, frong plate, rear plate, and all around where the manifold looks like it connects to the head, so around the red things that looked like the fuel injectors (?) and everywhere else, and it didn't make any difference. I also had the throttle body gasket replaced last winter, and the shop told me all the others were fine.

Bentley also suggests air flow sensor. I disconnected it and checked for ground on pin 1 and +ve voltage on pin 3 as they say, and both checked fine.

Now I'm stumped. I also ran a quick search on here, and most ppl seem to think it's the oxygen sensor itself. But shouldn't that throw a 1212 code (according to Bentley, 'faulty oxygen sensor')?

I don't like replacing stuff blindly, that's why I ask :)

Thanks y'all!

Edit: I'm gonna check my records and see if the O2 sensors were changed recently....

[winfred]

bad coil/plug/water/oil in the plug valley can do that too


Trajan, 1213 doesn't mean its too rich, it means the dme has detected excessive variation in the air fuel mixture, beyond what the o2 sensor can measure for a period of greater than 10 seconds.... It can be either rich or lean.
Since its only on one bank ,Cylinders 1-4, i would look at possible vacum leaks on that bank or see if the wiring harness going to the o2 sensor for that bank got damaged somehow. You didn't run over anything?
Since its one bank possible causes can be a stuck injector, low fuel pressure, airflow sensor problem etc.

[Traian]

The fuel consumption went sky high too. Before the CEL came on and she started limping, the first thing I noticed was that it was using a lot more gas that usual at steady hwy speed.

There is a test in the Bentley for the fuel pressure regulator, I will try that tomorrow.

I'll try a battery restet too, the battery ran down one night a couple of weeks ago when i forgot the dome light on, and after i charged it up the car ran better than before haha :) Guessing it's not the crank sensor as the car starts fine, not sure. It starts better after i leave it off for a few min.

The valve cover gasket is leaking a bit, some of the plugs are pretty oily. Should I test the coils somehow too?

One of the O2 sensors was changed at the dealer 50k km ago, the other one I don't know. I wonder why they didn't change both...

[BillionPa]

EEK!!! they are supposed to be changed in pairs. if both werent........ fix the problem at hand THEN replace them both.

[Bill R.]

Sayz who?... I work on many many cars where only the bad sensor is replaced and they go on for many tens of thousands of miles without a problem. Especially on a lot of late model cars that have 4 sensors at 130 each.



EEK!!! they are supposed to be changed in pairs. if both werent........ fix the problem at hand THEN replace them both.

[stargazer_61]

Check the fuel pump also. My M60 started acting strange, stalling, throwing a CEL and requiring shutdown/restart to limp home. The fuel pump was toast and caused funky air/fuel ratios that will throw CEL's.

[BillionPa]

well, i guess it would depend on the age of the other sensor, but the bmw replacement interval is 50K miles, and bosch says 75K miles. i would say if they are both over 30K miles, and one goes kaput, replace both.

hopefully when he tests out his FPR, he will do a fuel pressure test forward and backward.

[Traian]

Well, thanks for the help y'all, but i think this one's a little beyond me...

I couldn't even disconnect the battery haha, both of the wire terminals are like welded to the posts. Not only that, but when i started unscrewing the little bolt, the four way flashers came on (some security feature), and they didn't go off after i screwed it back on, or turned on the engine, or whatever. So they're still going off now like an hour later, battey will probably be dead any minute now. That's one way to do a reset I guess....

Also, I foudn a fuel pressure tester at Canadian Tire, but can't for the life of me make out where they heck I'm supposed to use it. I'm not good at this stuff.

Last thing is that it's like -5 outside and my hands are turning purple.

I'd be happy to let the car sit over the winter and just ride the bus around, but I work in another town and my friend's are coming over for the break and I promised I'd take them to Montreal... This sux lol.

[winfred]

hit the flasher button on and back off this should turn off the flashers


Well, thanks for the help y'all, but i think this one's a little beyond me...

I couldn't even disconnect the battery haha, both of the wire terminals are like welded to the posts. Not only that, but when i started unscrewing the little bolt, the four way flashers came on (some security feature), and they didn't go off after i screwed it back on, or turned on the engine, or whatever. So they're still going off now like an hour later, battey will probably be dead any minute now. That's one way to do a reset I guess....

Also, I foudn a fuel pressure tester at Canadian Tire, but can't for the life of me make out where they heck I'm supposed to use it. I'm not good at this stuff.

Last thing is that it's like -5 outside and my hands are turning purple.

I'd be happy to let the car sit over the winter and just ride the bus around, but I work in another town and my friend's are coming over for the break and I promised I'd take them to Montreal... This sux lol.

[632 Regal]

LOL! I think the dudes feeling a bit overwhelmed at the moment...
hit the flasher button on and back off this should turn off the flashers

[winfred]

figured id atleast try to solve that problem, usually cycling the flasher switch turns the flashers off on the later cars after the car looses power, i think it has to do with how the relay is powered where it seems to default to on


LOL! I think the dudes feeling a bit overwhelmed at the moment...

[Traian]

figured id atleast try to solve that problem, usually cycling the flasher switch turns the flashers off on the later cars after the car looses power, i think it has to do with how the relay is powered where it seems to default to on

Lol you guys crack me up. Thanks winfred, you're right that fixed it. Now for anyone who still cares, here's the rest of the story:

I took the car to my closest indy and he spend a day on it, tested fuel pressure, the fuel pump, the regulator, the O2 sensors, he drove it, his cousin drove it, his dad drove it, so did his wife, and their children, and their pets, and they found nothing. I picked her up and she drove fine. The only thing they ended up doing is resetting the codes.

The funny part happened about an hour later in another town, when i decided to be 'cool' and peel away from this stop sign on a deserted country road. When i hit about 80 i took my foot off the gas but she kept wanting more! 100,110,120,130 by this point i had my foot on the brake, thinking about that poor sap that drove around for half an hour like this and finally crashed into a barn cuz he never thought to kill the motor. I really didn't want to do that, but pulling the pedal up didn't help, and putting it into neutral just made it race to the revlimiter. So I cut the engine.

It turned out the throttle cable had stuck on one of the clips that holds the engine cover. On the way back the pedal would not return to the origin, so i had to drive with one foot under it to stop acceleration. But if I only hit the gas a bit, it acted a lot like a cruise control. Fuel mileage was excellent.

I took it back and they lubed the pedal assembly and the throttle junction where the cable attaches and just worked the pedal back and forth until it recentered itself.

All okay now, I hope.... what a weird week ;)

[632 Regal]

wouldnt seem too funny unless i was on a freeway...

at lest you are zeroing in on it.

[quote=Traian]

The funny part happened about an hour later in another town, when i decided to be 'cool' and peel away from this stop sign on a deserted country road. When i hit about 80 i took my foot off the gas but she kept wanting more! 100,110,120,130 by this point i had my foot on the brake, thinking about that poor sap that drove around for half an hour like this and finally crashed into a barn cuz he never thought to kill the motor./quote]

[JKBe30m3]

My fuel pump went out and caused the same problems. It didn't act like the fuel pump at first because in ran sometimes and sometimes I would be out driving and it would go into limp mode or stall and die. I replaced PCV, fuel filters, intake manifold gaskets, etc. etc. But when I took it in to have it looked at because I was stumped it was just the fuel pump. It's an expensive one though. Good luck!