Has anyone watched "An Inconvenient Truth"?

[632 Regal]

I really didnt give it much thought befre, this DVD was a real eye opener!

Very very informative.

http://www.climatecrisis.org/

[Fetch]

Not yet, I will if I'm really bored

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4480559399263937213&q=penn+and+teller+********

[pundit]

I really didnt give it much thought befre, this DVD was a real eye opener!

Very very informative.

http://www.climatecrisis.org/
So I guess that means the V12 E31 is up for sale? :(
No what am I saying. Someone else will just drive it and add to global warming.
It must be crushed and turned it 'Prevent Global Warming' badges. :D

[Elekta]

propaganda film of the first order. Even the clip montage of that site is misleading. That Russian Ural Lake is depleted not from climate change one iota, yet if you were to take all this hook line and sinker one would believe that somehow carbon based pollutants caused those boats to appear aground.

worst display of group think ever. The culmination of no diversity of thought in the educational system for the last 40 years.

don't believe the hype, question the pseudo authority...or not. you might as well believe that Paul Krugman and Frank Rich have their PHD's in Global Political Military Strategy too.

my 2.5 cents

[Fetch]

So I guess that means the V12 E31 is up for sale? :p

Dibbs :D

[Eric540i]

Cow 'emissions' more damaging to planet than CO2 from cars

....

http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/article2062484.ece

[Dave M]

I really didnt give it much thought befre, this DVD was a real eye opener!

Very very informative.

http://www.climatecrisis.org/

Thought we picked it up last night, but the chubby video store babe did the old switcharoo and we ended up with Superman Returns. Better luck next time.

Dave M

[Jon K]

It was boring and essentially ever earth science class up til about 10th great all encapsulated on a DVD. It would have been better had it been entertaining but it really wasn't.

[632 Regal]

I thought it was very interesting, at least as an idea where to invest :D
It was boring and essentially ever earth science class up til about 10th great all encapsulated on a DVD. It would have been better had it been entertaining but it really wasn't.

[Zeuk in Oz]

May I suggest reading Michael Crichton's "State of Fear" for further mind expansion on the issue, and an insight into government thinking processes.

[danielhstout]

propaganda film of the first order. Even the clip montage of that site is misleading. That Russian Ural Lake is depleted not from climate change one iota, yet if you were to take all this hook line and sinker one would believe that somehow carbon based pollutants caused those boats to appear aground.

worst display of group think ever. The culmination of no diversity of thought in the educational system for the last 40 years.

don't believe the hype, question the pseudo authority...or not. you might as well believe that Paul Krugman and Frank Rich have their PHD's in Global Political Military Strategy too.

my 2.5 cents

Sir, you must be mistaken. I suggest that you inform yourself before you mislead other people.

[ryan roopnarine]

I thought it was very interesting, at least as an idea where to invest :D

i too, just saw a documentary on how to invest. it had dan ackroyd and eddie murphy, and it helped keep me from losing a bunch of money on frozen orange juice concentrate futures:D

[indymdm]

i liked it a lot i am also interested in who killed the electric car has any one seen it and if so how is it

[GoldenOne]

who killed the electric car and an inconvenient truth are both good eye openers but its one of those things I consider propaganda...like those 9/11 rumors...nonetheless they are good movies to watch and think about it, then say "hah...kinda weird"

[Phil Sanderson]

I hate to be rude on the internet... but your an idiot. Get informed before you broadcast your ignorant filth all over the web.

...besides you. Grow up.

Phil

[CharlesAFerg]

Theres a lot of mis-stated 'evidence' in this movie, and it's a bit dissapointing.

I wish people would stop basing their lives on what some generic talking-head politician says anyways. Regardless of political party, and this applies to any of these 'leader' figures.
I'm seeing too many people these days blindly supporting and becoming angered about political candidates. It's just what the politicians want you to do...

Sad, sad days...


who killed the electric car and an inconvenient truth are both good eye openers but its one of those things I consider propaganda...like those 9/11 rumors...nonetheless they are good movies to watch and think about it, then say "hah...kinda weird"

Exactly, except I wouldn't say "Kinda weird." to any of those examples you gave, but I would want to hear what the other side says, but not get fired up about it, that's just barbaric.
...But yes, think you're right not yelling at people for disagreeing with you. Good call.

PS- Another OT to make us angry at each other... :-/
I am quite involved in politics here in my area "Portland, OR" But I like E34s better...

[Elekta]

waterworld was a better movie, and did more with the premise

[danielhstout]

...besides you. Grow up.

Phil

Yes Phil people are entitled to their opinions, and if we are talking about whether a movie is good or not, than opinions are OK. Yet if we are talking about something as factual and serious as global warming than people should at least do some of their own research before spreading already rampant misinformation. I think opinions are great... but anyone who says global warming is not real is either avoiding the truth for personal or economic reasons or has just been influenced by someone as misinforned as them and hasn't taken the time to actually consider the opposing viewpoint. It is usually the latter. On the other hand, I have taken the time to study both sides of this issues in order to form a rational an mature opinion on a subject that should be taken very seriously.

[Elekta]

I suppose you thought bowling for columbine deserved the oscar and F911 deserved the palmd'or

the problem is, the science isn't as sorted out as algore claims it is. it's one thing to say this might happen if we continue to behave this way, but inconvenient truth is an oxymoron of ivory tower proportions.

I suppose alex jones is your hero.

out

[kyleN20]

i read an article in car and driver that said it wasent true about humans being the cause, they instead said it was somthing else and when they went to the big summit they all knew this but could hardly agree to do nothing, it was a great article written by the bald guy with mustache sitting in the audi, i forget his name, wish i knew the article.

[Fetch]

i read an article in car and driver that said it wasent true about humans being the cause, they instead said it was somthing else and when they went to the big summit they all knew this but could hardly agree to do nothing, it was a great article written by the bald guy with mustache sitting in the audi, i forget his name, wish i knew the article.


Could it be Csaba Csere?

[BillionPa]

who killed the electric car was... disturbing.

as for an inconvenient truth, i have not seen it, but the carbon emissions we have been dumping are equivilent to what 50 million years ago brought about a massive extinction, flooded half of north america, turned the north pole into a tropical environment, and changed global climate to HOT mode for 200000 years.

[Paul in NZ]

its kinda interesting the views we have here.....
wether or not global warming is caused by carbon emmisions of our making or not there are some things here that i was interested to hear.
Global warming is a fact.You can argue that it of no consequence or that we arent causing it or whatever .However the temperature trends are upward.
I was very interested in the graphs Al Gore presented which plotted Co2 levels against time and temerature.How do they get the historic levels of co2.In Antartica they take ice core samples .From the sample they can determine the co2 levels and the temperature of that time.Apparently these samples date back 650,000 years.The co2 levels and temperature levels are exceeding any previuosly measured levels.
It may all be humbug of course..
However if for no other reason than the depletion of finite fossil fuels I think its hightime we all did something about it.So the next time you buy a new car or a new heating system or new hot water heating system just go the slightly more enviromentally friendly way.
The real crime will be if in a few years we really start to see some effects and we all say ..but nobody told us..

[GoldenOne]

the carbon emissions we have been dumping are equivilent to what 50 million years ago brought about a massive extinction, flooded half of north america, turned the north pole into a tropical environment, and changed global climate to HOT mode for 200000 years.

lol....wasnt that what Ice Age 2 was hinting at, except with a happy ending??

[Zeuk in Oz]

So the next time you buy a new car or a new heating system or new hot water heating system just go the slightly more enviromentally friendly way.
Good point Paul, but an even better point would be each of us trying to tell that to a couple of hundred thousand Chinese or Indians who want their turn at becominmg a developed nation and want the same environmental restictions (ie none) that the developed world had when they were at that stage of development.

Whatever we do is miniscule compared to these future superpowers.

You don't think that the problem might be that there are too many people on this planet do you ? (And no I'm not a fascist, left wing or otherwise, advocating death squads.)

I was merely stating the obvious.

[CharlesAFerg]

VERY NAYCE HAYNDRELYF!
http://www.darkhorizons.com/2006/borat/borat2.jpg

[632 Regal]

exactly Paul, I never believed in global warming as the trends of the charts are on scale as to the time set. However the CO2 levels are higher than ever before (and methane). I do my research and never try to post nonesence (ha) and found the info in this video to be pure education. I mean is Gore falsifying all the charts, all the antarctic and arctic ice thickness? How bout the snow capped mountains? I mean yes there are warming and cooling trends but is it this far off or a real deal? If it's real and the antarctic thins we can be in big trouble. Im not all into the battery garbage of funky suitcase size cars but if that what it takes to save this dot were on than so be it.

My other question that I cant ask was what impact directly is burning all them forests in africa causing? I mean half the damn country is in flames, that in my eyes has a definite impact on global heat, but in addition thats a lot of CO2 eating trees that are gone... I'm staying away from the politics end but what the hell does Gore have to gain by selling DVD's and the so called propaganda he is pushing? He has enough money to support all of us for the rest of our lives.

I'm pushing money into Chinas growth for long term which includes GE, BHP ans USU as a start. been out of stocks for a while since the first ex cleaned me out and had no working capital since '97 but now have a little to plan some sort of retirement since my company is fukt.

now I watch more replies or the thread to die a slow death.

[632 Regal]

lets quit the personal attacks and stay on topic, none of the attacks are very impressing so far. Now if UKM5ish was on then Id be busy deleting shyt lol. Cmon guys, I only posted this cause I didnt believe in global warming, not to have you guys fist fight over oppinions.


Does anybody else see this two-person argument as having no basis...?

I have seen no facts or even debate besides, "YOURE A LIAR BECUASE YOU SAID SOMETHING THAT MAKES ME BELIEVE YOU'RE A RIGHT WINGER."
or
"I GET AN OPINION TOO"
Are you arguing about anything specific...? Is there a specific part of the movie you agree or disagree with and at least ATTEMPT to back it up? Well, are you trying to argue something or just barking at each other...? You have an opinion, obviously, but on what?! Get on with it and start your shootin'!!!

At least post a specific topic of discussion before you start the mindless bashing lol...

[dennyg]

Its interesting that when nature spews out carbon its not a big deal. Point of fact is man has nearly been exterminated by acts of nature. They say the ice age was created by volcanic eruption or large meteor. I think global warming is happening. I am old enough to know winters here in north america are warmer and shorter. But know one can predict what effect or how fast things will get bad. It bothers me more the kinds of chemical and nuclear pollution we put in our rivers and streams. There are parts of Russia that are inhabitable. The drinking water in most communities is not good for long term consumption. Its funny how we have accepted bottled water as a matter of normalcy. It does no good to call it political. Its survival. To deny what is happening to our planet is like saying: It wont matter to me, I will be dead when the **** hits the fan.........I didint see the film. I personaly think its the wrong focus. Its too vague and too broad to make sense. But one thing is for sure USA has five percent of the population and consumes over twenty five percent of the energy.....Maybe there is something we can do to change that and still drive our cars

[632 Regal]

water is a new global investment im looking into :D The shorter winters and snows can be explained by the cyclistic timing over the years studied but you need to know that there was more than one ice age to see the full picture...was more than 5 or 6 that they can chart from 600 million years ago. the last ice age that nuked the dinosaurs was the closest to our time and could have been accelerated by a volcano.


Its interesting that when nature spews out carbon its not a big deal. Point of fact is man has nearly been exterminated by acts of nature. They say the ice age was created by volcanic eruption or large meteor. I think global warming is happening. I am old enough to know winters here in north america are warmer and shorter. But know one can predict what effect or how fast things will get bad. It bothers me more the kinds of chemical and nuclear pollution we put in our rivers and streams. There are parts of Russia that are inhabitable. The drinking water in most communities is not good for long term consumption. Its funny how we have accepted bottled water as a matter of normalcy. It does no good to call it political. Its survival. To deny what is happening to our planet is like saying: It wont matter to me, I will be dead when the **** hits the fan.........I didint see the film. I personaly think its the wrong focus. Its too vague and too broad to make sense. But one thing is for sure USA has five percent of the population and consumes over twenty five percent of the energy.....Maybe there is something we can do to change that and still drive our cars

[Paul in NZ]

Good point Paul, but an even better point would be each of us trying to tell that to a couple of hundred thousand Chinese or Indians who want their turn at becominmg a developed nation and want the same environmental restictions (ie none) that the developed world had when they were at that stage of development.

Whatever we do is miniscule compared to these future superpowers.

You don't think that the problem might be that there are too many people on this planet do you ? (And no I'm not a fascist, left wing or otherwise, advocating death squads.)

I was merely stating the obvious.

So we blame the other guy and do nothing?

[kyleN20]

isnt there a super volcano under yosemity?

[dennyg]

Yeah we can get too serious about stuff. Everyone has an opinion. These forums are for cars right? Its mucho stuff...screw the tree huggers the liberal types. They are just whiners and malcontents..........Gee let me see.....smoking is bad for ones health. Unleaded gas is better for air then leaded. Seat belts and air bags do save lives. Rush Limbaugh is just a drug induced air bag.....And you guys in Nz drive on the left......what kind of communism is that?

[CharlesAFerg]

lets quit the personal attacks and stay on topic, none of the attacks are very impressing so far. Now if UKM5ish was on then Id be busy deleting shyt lol. Cmon guys, I only posted this cause I didnt believe in global warming, not to have you guys fist fight over oppinions.

That was my point, lol read my previous post before that hahahaha
It's so silly.

I get 15.6 mpg! What about you guys? :-D lol
Awful!
.Charles

[632 Regal]

i get 14-18 so thats better than my truck at 12-15


That was my point, lol read my previous post before that hahahaha
It's so silly.

I get 15.6 mpg! What about you guys? :-D lol
Awful!
.Charles

[Zeuk in Oz]

So we blame the other guy and do nothing?
Not at all Paul, you missed my point, perhaps.

I was just saying that we can get all orgasmic about our own righteousness, but at the end of the day the irony is that it is more important what is happening half a world away where we have no influence.

It is really a very just end to our collective wastefulness.

All we need now is for the "developed" countries to try to tell the developing countries that each person can't have their own car like we have, and we will see armageddon sooner than we had thought.

[danielhstout]

I'm not trying to pick personal battles... All I know is what I have read. I haven't even seen this movie and I don't plan to because I have already done the research. Al Gore's movie may be political propaganda but in my eyes it is a good way to promote awareness. I believe that global warming is real... all the scientific evidence is in order.

The United States needs to set a standard for the rest of the world. After all we are the majority of the problem. (Plus, if other countries don't cooperate we can always just start a war with them j/k) Doing nothing is not going to help the situation.

Real or not, one thing we are sure of is that our actions do have a negative effect on our environment. So why not take the necessary steps in the right direction? MONEY! That’s why... Well if you want to use the global economy as a scapegoat you first have to realize that technological development is what drives capitalism.

We have been relying on fossil fuels for too long now; it is obviously outdated technology... Isn't it time for something better, something renewable, something cleaner and something that could spark an even greater economic revolution? We have the ability to develop technology that would better our earth/civilization and bring in revenue at the same time. Everybody wins...the conservative money grubbers and the whinney liberals.

We have the technological ability to develop ethanol into an ideal and still powerful fuel... Think of the impacts on agriculture... It would flourish worldwide... Having a positive effect on poverty and world hunger while at the same time being better for our environment. There are many other earth friendly energy sources out there besides ethanol too; it just takes our effort to develop them.

The sad thing is that it is the rich corporate power mongers that control the revenue that can produce this new technology. Yet, most of them don't see it as in their own interests to do so.

I could go on for days about all of this but I am not going to change many minds... People need to become educated and that is the bottom line.

Realize that we have the ability to make things better than they are now. There are no losers, just a better richer and more developed civilization, not to mention preserving the earth in its more natural state for generations to come. The end of the world? Maybe not, but there is definitely some more bad **** to come if we do not change our attitudes towards our planet.

[Jon K]

We have been relying on fossil fuels for too long now; it is obviously outdated technology... Isn't it time for something better, something renewable, something cleaner and something that could spark an even greater economic revolution?


I hate gasoline, **** this ****! Give me some nutragrain bars and a bottle of LoveFuel

[CharlesAFerg]

I haven't even seen this movie and I don't plan to because I have already done the research.

We have been relying on fossil fuels for too long now; it is obviously outdated technology...

Indeed... "Where I come from we don't need roads..."
http://www.markshields.com/images/prop_replicas/jay_allan_mr_fusion_1.jpg


I hate gasoline, **** this ****! Give me some nutragrain bars and a bottle of LoveFuel
organic nonetheless.

[BillionPa]

To deny what is happening to our planet is like saying: It wont matter to me, I will be dead when the **** hits the fan.........

actually, i will probably still be alive, i expect the point of no return is in about 2020, and the point where everyone starts freaking out hardcore about 2045

[SC David]

isnt there a super volcano under yosemity?
Yellowstone. When that goes off in however long, much of North America is done with.

The way I see it, Earth has its own natural energy balance that is being partially disrupted by the "progress" of humankind, and the lifestyles of those with influence. If everyone on earth lived like the average American, we would need more than 3 earths to support ourselves. The main contributing factors being our diets and the amount of land it takes to raise the cattle for our carnivorous, and our energy consumption. The energy consumption of America is high because of our land use patterns, with our sprawling landscape being the reason we are so reliant on fossil fuels. We NEED cars and trucks to be a successful nation since our infrastructure depends on it.


Good point Paul, but an even better point would be each of us trying to tell that to a couple of hundred thousand Chinese or Indians who want their turn at becominmg a developed nation and want the same environmental restictions (ie none) that the developed world had when they were at that stage of development.

Whatever we do is miniscule compared to these future superpowers.

You don't think that the problem might be that there are too many people on this planet do you ? (And no I'm not a fascist, left wing or otherwise, advocating death squads.)

Countries like China and India which are quickly industrializing and catching up to modern nations may try to model some parts of their lifestyle off of the US, Europe, and elsewhere, but will not be successful in replicating our societies since there are simply too many people in too small of space in their compacted cities to handle the amount of space that cars require. Roads, houses, everything would have to change. It's impossible to tell what is to come of these countries, but they do not have many environmental standards at this point and many big cities have been polluting like crazy for many years. Busy Indian cities are already at a point of capacity as far as automobiles are concerned. There are already too many of them on the road and the up and coming middle class would be foolish to think they could have 5+ cars per household, as we are allowed in rural America. As far as polluting and such goes, these future superpowers won't get much worse, since the cars roaming the streets are all dinosaurs and the new ones they will be able to buy will be much cleaner. Same thing goes with all other industrial technology that is being outsourced. Newer = cleaner, and newer is what they will soon be getting.

The population problem will likely sort itself out. Your Neo-Malthusian view about population control implies that there are already too many people on the planet, and that it is a problem that will only get worse. I think that as innovation in overpopulated areas of India and China continues, solutions will arise. The carrying capacity will be sorted out and poverty rates will, hopefully, decline.


As for humankind making matters worse, I believe that we are playing a minor role in offsetting the natural balance of the earth and making global warming come upon us a little sooner than would happen without us here. The earth has its cycles, and we will have to adapt to the climate changes that are naturally occurring, and it should be in our best interest to slow these changes to the best of our abilities. Hope I made sense :D

[CharlesAFerg]

I'll be in the world I was meant to be born into when we're colonizing other planets like in 'Aliens', or even 'Starship Troopers'.
:D
I'd fit right in.

[Zeuk in Oz]

The population problem will likely sort itself out. Your Neo-Malthusian view about population control implies that there are already too many people on the planet, and that it is a problem that will only get worse. I think that as innovation in overpopulated areas of India and China continues, solutions will arise. The carrying capacity will be sorted out and poverty rates will, hopefully, decline.

I certainly hope you are right, but how do you see this being achieved ?
Surely the emerging, educated, middle classes in these countries will continue to aspire.
Who is going to stand in their way or at least argue against their growing affluence ?

[Fetch]

Indeed... "Where I come from we don't need roads..."
http://www.markshields.com/images/prop_replicas/jay_allan_mr_fusion_1.jpg


organic nonetheless.


lololol Isn't it 'Where we're going we don't need roads' ?
Whatever, hilarious reference!!!!

[danielhstout]

Indeed... "Where I come from we don't need roads..."
http://www.markshields.com/images/prop_replicas/jay_allan_mr_fusion_1.jpg


organic nonetheless.

Who said anything about getting rid of our roads... We just need to use our resources more wisely and strive to achieve something better than the status-quo.

[Dash01]

Al Gore's "Inconvenient Truth" movie is certainly worth seeing on DVD, as Michael Crichton's "State of Fear" novel is worth reading. These two productions are useful as sort of intellectual bookends in the environmental debate.

Keep in mind, however, that each has an ax to grind. Al Gore wants to be president, and this movie is part of the groundwork for his campaign. His references to his injured son and dead sister or maudlin attempts to garner the sympathy vote. His father, Sen. Albert Gore mineral-leased the family farm to Armand Hammer, an unsavory oil baron and Kremlin sympathizer who headed Occidental Petroleum. Both the Gores and Hammer knew there were no minerals in that farm, but rather used it as a conduit for money laundering and influence peddling. So, along with the Kennedy and Bush clans, the Gores have a checkered past that should be viewed with skepticism and circumspection.

Our environment fluctuates naturally according to various influences including (but not limited to) sunspots, solar flares, meteor showers, volcanoes, tectonic movement, space dust and gases, etc., that are completely beyond our control. Our own behavior in the form of smokestacks, cowflop, tailpipe emissions, desert and farm irrigation, overpopulation, clear cutting, etc. also has significant influence. So, we can and should be better stewards of our planet, even while recognizing that the natural environment does what it does according to its whims.

In additions to seeing Gore's "Inconvenient Truth" movie with open-minded circumspection, one should also read Michael Crichton's "State of Fear" novel, if only for its footnotes and cites. In particular, Crichton's cites of historical temperature readings taken over the past ~150 years are interesting: So-called "heat islands" such as New York City have been quite stable in temperature or actually declined over that period. How could this be, if there is in fact global warming? On the other hand, we have clear photographic and other evidence of receding glaciers and breakup of Greenland icecaps, which I have personally witnessed.

[attack eagle]

I hate to be rude on the internet... but your an idiot. Get informed before you broadcast your ignorant filth all over the web.
And what is your education in this matter? If you are going to bash someone for being uneducated in this matter, I'd like to know which section of NASA you are working in that makes you an expert.

I could say to you get educated before you spread your pavlovistic propaganda filth all over the infoweb as well.
But that wouldn't be very polite, respectful or even good form would it?
No offense Daniel, but it's a propagandistic film... not an educational one. If you want TV education watch TLC or Discovery.

I beleive in global warming too... It's been going on since the middle of the ice age...and after it is over, there will be ANOTHER ice age, and so on and so forth.
*I say we blame the dinosaurs... there was twice as much oxygen in the atmosphere before them... and now burning them give off too much co2... and there is more land, swamps are desrts, forests are ice... bad dino, bad.* -the preceding is a comedic reponse that shows simply how different earth is today without industrial intervention. I know it is plants we burn.


I will say this, Remember the Hubbub about the hole in the ozone layer? I lived under that for many years, and i never wore sunscreen. never did me any harm, nor anyone that I know either.

People who think the Earth will remain static with no major climatological changes have forgotten to read their history recently, or are delusional.
Thanks Al gore for inventing the internet so we could discuss this here, I know you are a reliable source of completely unpolitically motivated factual information.
That's my .2

[danielhstout]

And what is your education in this matter? If you are going to bash someone for being uneducated in this matter, I'd like to know which section of NASA you are working in that makes you an expert.

I could say to you get educated before you spread your pavlovistic propaganda filth all over the infoweb as well.
But that wouldn't be very polite, respectful or even good form would it?
No offense Daniel, but it's a propagandistic film... not an educational one. If you want TV education watch TLC or Discovery.

I beleive in global warming too... It's been going on since the middle of the ice age...and after it is over, there will be ANOTHER ice age, and so on and so forth.
*I say we blame the dinosaurs... there was twice as much oxygen in the atmosphere before them... and now burning them give off too much co2... and there is more land, swamps are desrts, forests are ice... bad dino, bad.* -the preceding is a comedic reponse that shows simply how different earth is today without industrial intervention. I know it is plants we burn.


I will say this, Remember the Hubbub about the hole in the ozone layer? I lived under that for many years, and i never wore sunscreen. never did me any harm, nor anyone that I know either.

People who think the Earth will remain static with no major climatological changes have forgotten to read their history recently, or are delusional.
Thanks Al gore for inventing the internet so we could discuss this here, I know you are a reliable source of completely unpolitically motivated factual information.
That's my .2

I think you should have paid more attention to my later posts before you attempted to discount what I am trying to say.

Well I would have to say that Discovery is about the only channel I watch but I don't believe that the information is unbiased; most everything is biased in some way. What did you think about Ted Koppel's special on the global warming "crisis"? Total propaganda too I assume.

Obviously Gore has political motivations... but that doesn't discount the fact that he is raising awareness to a serious issue.

As far as my education goes... I am still a college student (or a young dumb kid who thinks he knows it all of course). I have written three research papers on the subject for different classes. I have seen the facts and witnessed both sides of the argument. I care about this issue enough to not let other politcal figures guide me. All I am trying to get through to people is to get educated. Do the research yourself and look at both sides of the issue. After you do that you can really draw your own mature conclusions.

I apologize for my initial post... it was just an emotional reaction to what I perceived as a worthless unprecedented statement.

[CharlesAFerg]

SEXYTAYME EXPLOZION!
http://www.borat.tv/ms_blog/cannes.jpg

[Robin-535im]

Could it be Csaba Csere?
Maybe Rollo Tomasi?

[danielhstout]

I didn't say that or even impy it, I was quoting a movie called "Back to the Future" hence the picture of the 'Mr.Fusion' you arrogant and mindless moron. Watch your tone with me. I took no sides, and I was obviously making a joke.
**** you, you're lucky this is the internet, making blind attacks at me like that.

I'm done with this thread, as you are assuming my political beliefs under terribly false pretences. May I remind you that you ARE in fact, making the wrong judgements about what I believe, and have alienated someone most likely of similar beliefs.

Charles, I wasn't trying to insult you... Simply combatting one sarcastic remark with another.

With a joke like that I preceived that you were making light of my stance and intentionally mocking it at the same time. It seemed that you were inferring that I was an exteremist idiot and that nothing I say has any potential weight. If that was not your intention I am sorry for using a sarcastic tone.

I take this subject very seriously and I believe that others should too. Not saying that you don't, but thats just the message I saw. Clearly a misunderstanding. In my eyes anyway. Once again, sorry, I was not trying to alienate you.

Maybe I should just stay out of this thread since I am clearly out numbered in my views. But then again someone needs to represent the opposition. Keep it coming, I can take it.

[Dave M]

Hey Jeff, may want to move your own thread. We haven't figured out that 'joking' and sarcasm aren't well interpreted by all our members.............yet :D

[attack eagle]

Wow, I think you should have paid more attention to my later posts before you attempted to tear my *******.
I did, that's why you now have 3 ways of passing excrement. Orally, normal and new arsehole.



Well I would have to say that Discovery is about the only channel I watch but I don't believe that the information is unbiased; most everything is biased in some way. What did you think about Ted Koppel's special on the global warming "crisis"? Total propaganda ******** too I assume.
I don't watch ratings specials. Too much politics, too much preaching by teleprompter reading talking heads who don't truly understand what they are representing themselves as de facto experts on.
When I want facts, I read research. When I want entertainment, I watch a movie. Ted Koppel is good entertainment, but I don't like him one bit.



As far as my education goes... I am still a college student (or a young dumb kid who thinks he knows it all of course). I have written three research papers on the subject for different classes. I have seen the facts and witnessed both sides of the argument. I care about this issue enough to not let other politcal figures guide me. All I am trying to get through to people is to get educated. Do the research yourself and look at both sides of the issue. After you do that you can really draw your own mature conclusions.

Well gee there sonny boy... this is what got your arse ripped. Your pathetic insistance, that because I don't believe the same thing as you or draw the same conclusions that I have not examined both sides of the issue, and Am just a person who is a political follower. As a matter of fact, you seem to include everyone who doesn't agree with you as an ignorant political follower. THAT IS IGNORANCE.
What do they teach in college today, besides remedial math, english, history, social studies, PC activism and PC "tolerance"? You really should ask for a refund if this is the best you can do after even one semester. I've draw my own mature conclusons, you disagree. Good. Get back to me after 100 years, 500 and 1000 and we will see who is right.
Researching and writing a paper is a good way of finding and organizing preexisting information. That is only step one, now you need to add information by experimentation and new discovery. Failing that you are not dealing in Hard science, only social science, or are merely an archivist.




I apologize for my initial post... it was just an emotional reaction to what I perceived as a worthless unprecedented statement.

Whatever.

Whatever indeed. An Apology implies behavioral correction. There has been none. So as people were once fond of saying before whiney crybabies decided tolerance meant not hurting feelings instead of accepting that tolerance MEANT hurt feelings... You can take your apology and shove it where the sun don't shine.

[632 Regal]

i see this and pm'd the involved to edit their threads, if it continues I will clean it myself. Good threads gone awry...


Hey Jeff, may want to move your own thread. We haven't figured out that 'joking' and sarcasm aren't well interpreted by all our members.............yet :D

[E34-520iSE]

Over here in England, there has been a big increase in wind tubines, which obviously is a good thing. However the downside to them is their cost and people's opposition to them, mainly rural communities who would otherwise get lumbered with a massive wind farm on an area of outstanding beauty. We need to strike some sort of balance now for this to work. Personally I would never oppose a wind turbine, and would happily have one of my own to put in the back garden, but as yet there is no government incentives to do so, even though I live on a hill and there's always a good wind blowing!

It's a crazy world!

Cheers,

Shaun M

[Elekta]

Over here in England, there has been a big increase in wind tubines, which obviously is a good thing. However the downside to them is their cost and people's opposition to them, mainly rural communities who would otherwise get lumbered with a massive wind farm on an area of outstanding beauty. We need to strike some sort of balance now for this to work. Personally I would never oppose a wind turbine, and would happily have one of my own to put in the back garden, but as yet there is no government incentives to do so, even though I live on a hill and there's always a good wind blowing!

It's a crazy world!

Cheers,

Shaun M

There is a good number of used wind/energy systems out there if you are really interested. You'd be surprised of the decent gear that gets tossed in favor of brand new gov't cheese funded systems. Also, if you bypass Amarillo heading to Austin from Denver, you will drive by couple thousand acres of wind farm, and they are truly majestic and peaceful pieces of collossal machinery to behold...a boon to the landscape. Frankly I'd like to see a few thousand wind towers off the coast of the vinyard, if the righteous senator would allow it. Texas not only refines the most petrol energy, they are fast becoming the largest producer of all energy sources including wind, water, and sun. We sure are a bunch of backwoods rednecks arent' we daniel?

My next $$$ investment is in PVBM...google that whydoncha?

[632 Regal]

GE has a huge contract with china to supply the newest type of high efficient generators. google that whydoncha :D


My next $$$ investment is in PVBM...google that whydoncha?

[Bill R.]

tax credits on your existing owed taxes which is why big oil and various light and gas companies are going to windpower even in locations that aren't optimal, credits that directly offset taxes owed on their other business dealings. The state levels are where the real incentives to small producers are. To bad solar isn't getting the same kind of incentives/credits/funding or hybrid vehicles, instead of losing their tax credits gaining more tax credits.

And the Senator isn't the one who's going to kill the windfarm off the vinyard, Its a republican rep. from Alaska who's going to kill it. With his proposal to ban windfarms within a 1.5 nautical mile range of shipping or ferry lanes. Its pretty much already a given in fact.





There is a good number of used wind/energy systems out there if you are really interested. You'd be surprised of the decent gear that gets tossed in favor of brand new gov't cheese funded systems. Also, if you bypass Amarillo heading to Austin from Denver, you will drive by couple thousand acres of wind farm, and they are truly majestic and peaceful pieces of collossal machinery to behold...a boon to the landscape. Frankly I'd like to see a few thousand wind towers off the coast of the vinyard, if the righteous senator would allow it. Texas not only refines the most petrol energy, they are fast becoming the largest producer of all energy sources including wind, water, and sun. We sure are a bunch of backwoods rednecks arent' we daniel?

My next $$$ investment is in PVBM...google that whydoncha?

[Bill R.]

bookends since State of Fear is a FICTIONAL novel written by someone who has no expertise in the field whatsoever, should stick to his Tv show ER.

Whereas Inconvenient Truth is a documentary based on the most current available science who's statements and claims are for the most part in complete agreement with 99% of the reputable climatology experts out there.





Al Gore's "Inconvenient Truth" movie is certainly worth seeing on DVD, as Michael Crichton's "State of Fear" novel is worth reading. These two productions are useful as sort of intellectual bookends in the environmental debate.

Keep in mind, however, that each has an ax to grind. Al Gore wants to be president, and this movie is part of the groundwork for his campaign. His references to his injured son and dead sister or maudlin attempts to garner the sympathy vote. His father, Sen. Albert Gore mineral-leased the family farm to Armand Hammer, an unsavory oil baron and Kremlin sympathizer who headed Occidental Petroleum. Both the Gores and Hammer knew there were no minerals in that farm, but rather used it as a conduit for money laundering and influence peddling. So, along with the Kennedy and Bush clans, the Gores have a checkered past that should be viewed with skepticism and circumspection.

Our environment fluctuates naturally according to various influences including (but not limited to) sunspots, solar flares, meteor showers, volcanoes, tectonic movement, space dust and gases, etc., that are completely beyond our control. Our own behavior in the form of smokestacks, cowflop, tailpipe emissions, desert and farm irrigation, overpopulation, clear cutting, etc. also has significant influence. So, we can and should be better stewards of our planet, even while recognizing that the natural environment does what it does according to its whims.

In additions to seeing Gore's "Inconvenient Truth" movie with open-minded circumspection, one should also read Michael Crichton's "State of Fear" novel, if only for its footnotes and cites. In particular, Crichton's cites of historical temperature readings taken over the past ~150 years are interesting: So-called "heat islands" such as New York City have been quite stable in temperature or actually declined over that period. How could this be, if there is in fact global warming? On the other hand, we have clear photographic and other evidence of receding glaciers and breakup of Greenland icecaps, which I have personally witnessed.

[Elekta]

AlGore's climatology forecasting and modeling are 99% speculative....that is to say as fictional as anything Michael Crichton or Dan Brown could speculate in their novels for that matter.

regarding pinning the Massachusett's wind farm failure on an Alaskan senator, I can only say how convenient ;)

[Dash01]

bookends since State of Fear is a FICTIONAL novel written by someone who has no expertise in the field whatsoever, should stick to his Tv show ER.

Whereas Inconvenient Truth is a documentary based on the most current available science who's statements and claims are for the most part in complete agreement with 99% of the reputable climatology experts out there.


Well, novels are (by definition) fictional, so no argument there. As novels go, Crichton's "State of Fear" wasn't that great. That said, my reference to it was actually to his plentiful footnotes and cites, rather than his writing, per se.

In such footnotes and cites, he incorporates (among other things) historic temperature measurements from various places around the globe. I recall that US Military Academy at West Point being one of them, using the same thermometer for ~150 years. In other words, there are accurate data points from reliable sources on daily temps, and these could be verified independently of Michael Crichton, or whoever. Anyway, one of the popular global warming claims is that modern cities are generating "heat islands" or hotspots on the planet due to too much concrete, asphalt, reflectivity, heating & airconditioning, etc.. These urban hotspots reportedly are heating the planet. This notion sounded pretty reasonable to me, until Crichton et al pointed out that actual daily temperature measurements in various cities did not show the daily temperature to be going up significantly. Some of them actually dropped a bit. WTF? How could these be big hotspots if the daily temps are not going up?

And regarding "the most current available science who's statements and claims are for the most part in complete agreement with 99% of the reputable climatology experts out there" consider the following: "Reputable climatology experts" including the National Weather Service, local and regional weathermen on TV and radio, the University of Washington, and others were just 6 weeks ago telling us here in the Pacific Northwest that El Nino was back, and that the normally cold and wet months of November, December, January, and February were gonna be warmer and drier than normal. So, how much warmer and drier did November turn out to be, right after the "reputable experts" made their predictions? Well, as of mid-November, it was already the wettest November on record. By the end of the month, it was the wettest month ever recorded here, with a blizzard and frozen traffic into the bargain. Not the wettest November, the wettest of ANY of the 12 months since since records were ever kept. So, if the "reputable experts" could not predict the month-long November 2006 monsoon/blizzard just 3 days before it happened, exactly how much faith should I place in their judgement?

And, further consider the following: 2005 was a horrendous year for hurricanes, culminating with Katrina. At the time, the experts attributed this to global warming, which mean higher sea temperatures. 2006 was supposed to be even worse, given the thermal trend line. So, if there were ~15 hurricanes in 2005 and the sea temps. going up, exactly how many hurricanes did we have in even hotter 2006? 16? 18? 20? Nope. Not one big storm hit the US. So, what happened to the prognostications of the climate experts?

Ever hear of Paul Ehrlich? He was the big expert on climate when I was in college a few decades back. At the time, he was predicting either global cooling and a new Ice Age, or overheating of the planet such as to melt iron, due to overpopulation. No ****. This was all supposed to happen by ~1995 to ~2000. Well, the big expert turned out to be flat wrong.

I'm no expert and don't play one on TV. In an earlier life, however, I did fly r&d missions on EC135 aircraft, carrying scientific crews in the back end from NASA and Los Alamos Scientific Laboratory. We looked at solar eclipses and other phenomenon. We also worked on developing a post-apocolypse communication system using meteor showers to bounce radio waves, in case the Russkies nuked our telecommunications systems. Anyway, on these missions I had a chance to talk with various PhD types in the back-end crew. The LASL guys were gathering data on sunspots, which run in 11 year cycles, with consequences for world agriculture. In those days we were selling grain to the USSR, which could not feed itself. China was a basket case. So, global ag. was geo-strategically vital, hence the government funding for the LASL solar eclipse data. Bottom line: The PhD types from NASA and LASL (one from Harvard) were all scratching their heads on the effects of sunspots, meteor showers, etc.. and frankly did not know what to make of any of it. To this brew, add volcanic eruptions, etc..

My personal but unschooled layman's suspicion is that human interference via industry, tailpipe emissions, clear cutting, and general overpopulation is making a big dent on the environment. This, coupled with natural and completely unpredicable and uncontrollable natural phenomenon such as volcanic eruptions, sunspots, asteroids, meteor showers, forest fires, etc. may be making things worse for our climate. OTOH, it could be that our pollution is actually attenuating what nature may have been making even worse all by itself.

My personal but unschooled layman's suspicion also has it that we may in fact have serious climatological issues to deal with, and should not be passive on our search for the truth and for viable attempts at remedy. That said, I'm also skeptical of the so-called "experts," whose track record is not as hot as their weather predictions.

If I had my druthers, I'd reduce the world population by ~2/3, go to high tech but clean industry for the remaining ~1/3 of the population, and treat nature a lot more nicely. But, I'm not the emperor and don't have any suggestions on who should be.

[danielhstout]

I did, that's why you now have 3 ways of passing excrement. Orally, normal and new arsehole.


I don't watch ratings specials. Too much politics, too much preaching by teleprompter reading talking heads who don't truly understand what they are representing themselves as de facto experts on.
When I want facts, I read research. When I want entertainment, I watch a movie. Ted Koppel is good entertainment, but I don't like him one bit.


Well gee there sonny boy... this is what got your arse ripped. Your pathetic insistance, that because I don't believe the same thing as you or draw the same conclusions that I have not examined both sides of the issue, and Am just a person who is a political follower. As a matter of fact, you seem to include everyone who doesn't agree with you as an ignorant political follower. THAT IS IGNORANCE.
What do they teach in college today, besides remedial math, english, history, social studies, PC activism and PC "tolerance"? You really should ask for a refund if this is the best you can do after even one semester. I've draw my own mature conclusons, you disagree. Good. Get back to me after 100 years, 500 and 1000 and we will see who is right.
Researching and writing a paper is a good way of finding and organizing preexisting information. That is only step one, now you need to add information by experimentation and new discovery. Failing that you are not dealing in Hard science, only social science, or are merely an archivist.




Whatever indeed. An Apology implies behavioral correction. There has been none. So as people were once fond of saying before whiney crybabies decided tolerance meant not hurting feelings instead of accepting that tolerance MEANT hurt feelings... You can take your apology and shove it where the sun don't shine.

Well I certainly hope you all are right about this because I don't want to live in a world that is anymore messed up than it already is. But for now you know where I stand. Also, if you indeed did do your research you know where the large majority (98%) of climate scientologist stand. We think you are wrong, but we hope you are right. I guess we will see. I never directly attempted to insult your intelligence, I just questioned it. Lay off. Good day.

[Zeuk in Oz]

bookends since State of Fear is a FICTIONAL novel written by someone who has no expertise in the field whatsoever, should stick to his Tv show ER.

Whereas Inconvenient Truth is a documentary based on the most current available science who's statements and claims are for the most part in complete agreement with 99% of the reputable climatology experts out there.

As the misguided soul who introduced Michael Crighton's book into the debate, may I say that I was not referring to the novel's plot - the concept of the great unwashed being kept in a state of fear by governments is hardly new, no matter how accurate it might be.

My reasons for using it as an example was, as Dash01 has said, the climate data to which he refers in the text and gives footnotes to, appears to somewhat muddy the water as to what is absolute fact and what is, however well intentioned, hypothesis, on both sides.

What I was suggesting is that this debate is far from cut and dried, and anyone, from whichever side of the argument, that thinks they have all the answers to support their case is delusional.

My limited research on the subject has led me to more unanswered questions than any absolutes.

That said, whatever the motivation, decreasing use of fossil fuels can only be good for our planet. My concern is how we can achieve this in the developing world. It should, however, be readily achievable in the developed world, if governments just have some guts.

What I don't inderstand is this thought that if global warming is not occurring (and I am not saying that it isn't) then it should be business as usual.

Why can't we reduce CO2 emissions, reduce fossil fuel dependence, plant more trees......etc etc, anyway.

Surely "cleaner" energy should be embraced for itself, not just seen as a begrudging necessity to be adopted in the face of an environmental armageddon.

This is my biggest gripe with countries like Australia that have become massive importers of all sorts of manufactured products from the third world without a moment's thought to anything other than its ability to produce these items at a cheaper price. Certainly not cheap in environmental terms.

Perhaps we were already doomed the moment we invented the wheel !

[CharlesAFerg]

Maybe I should just stay out of this thread since I am clearly out numbered in my views. But then again someone needs to represent the opposition. Keep it coming, I can take it.

I don't know where you got the idea that I agree or diagree with you.
Just a thought.

[danielhstout]

I don't know where you got the idea that I agree or diagree with you.
Just a thought.

I may be inferring too much information. So what is it then? In my mind there is only one rational option... But we all already knew that.