Norwegian E34 w/ twinturbo on a 850CSI engine [Archive]

Espen

12-12-2006, 07:48 AM

Pretty insane if you ask me...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/e30big/550%20twin%20turbo/motor/DSC00448.jpg

LINK: http://www.bilforumet.net/showthread.php?t=142822&page=1

A couple of low quality movies (you need quicktime to get the sound working)

http://www.crxsol.com/e30big/MOV00393.3GP

http://www.crxsol.com/e30big/MOV00403.3GP

BigKriss

12-12-2006, 08:55 AM

Looks cramped but it all fits in there.

///M-Power 3\\\

12-12-2006, 09:39 AM

That is the most frigggin' beastly BMW i have ever heard! I'm going to record it and play in my car...lol

632 Regal

12-12-2006, 09:49 AM

awesome :d :D :D

MPD47

12-12-2006, 10:35 AM

genphreak

12-12-2006, 01:59 PM

Clean looking setup, but I'm confused by the hard pipe running between the two charge pipes. I suspect they were trying to equalize pressure but the twin setups and engine management runs each bank seperately, so I dont see a point to it.

The use of zip ties on oil lines like that is kind of sad too :(Safety? If one pops, the other bank will not be thrown out of whack... also, it ensures consistent pressure, keeping everything the same. Makes for easier troubleshooting.

I don't get how all that stuff can live (ABS unit, heater valves, ebox) so near to the turbos. Up on the towers the turbos are not gettting any airflow. ONce they get hot they will melt anything near them. The pipe work is awesome but I can't see how all that heat can be delt with... it could end up a pretty big mess- then again it depends on the boost one uses- if its a low pressure it won't get too critical but one needs to design this stuff for a little abuse... has the AC been deleted too? I can't quite tell but can't imagine a compressor and an condenser in there AS WELL...

That is certainly the way to charge an e34 though... what a nightmare it'd be getting it all to fit, or even just changing the plugs. :(

Fetch

12-12-2006, 03:25 PM

Looks like a chore to change the air filters (least the left one)!!!!

Movies don't seem to download for me :(

///M-Power 3\\\

12-12-2006, 05:46 PM

Safety? If one pops, the other bank will not be thrown out of whack... also, it ensures consistent pressure, keeping everything the same. Makes for easier troubleshooting.

I don't get how all that stuff can live (ABS unit, heater valves, ebox) so near to the turbos. Up on the towers the turbos are not gettting any airflow. ONce they get hot they will melt anything near them. The pipe work is awesome but I can't see how all that heat can be delt with... it could end up a pretty big mess- then again it depends on the boost one uses- if its a low pressure it won't get too critical but one needs to design this stuff for a little abuse... has the AC been deleted too? I can't quite tell but can't imagine a compressor and an condenser in there AS WELL...

That is certainly the way to charge an e34 though... what a nightmare it'd be getting it all to fit, or even just changing the plugs. :(

I bet i know how he keeps them cool... By not driving with his hood on :D

Tiger

12-12-2006, 06:00 PM

Awesome! He really need cold air intake instead of sucking engine bay air.

Barry

12-12-2006, 10:53 PM

All of you criticizing this guy,why not post pics of YOUR v12 TT setup in your e34..Show us all how its to be done then...

This guy has the balls to ACTUALLY do this to his car and all you blokes have to say is how bad this and how bad that was done...

Bloody hypocrites..

MPD47

12-12-2006, 10:55 PM

No, I know nothing about turbo cars. Nevermind the 944 turbo's I've played with, the BMW turbo cars, the twin turbo 350z's, the EJ20 V3 STi etc, etc. I have every right to criticize and question.

Hell look at his wiring job, talk about hack.

angrypancake

12-12-2006, 11:16 PM

CharlesAFerg

12-12-2006, 11:52 PM

criticize? no. it's more looking it over and noticing shortcuts and **** that were taken. of course we've got crazy respect for the guy. but wtf, if you're gonna go balls out and do something like that, why not do it all the way? zip ties?

Yeah dude, seriously...

While we're on topic, does anybody have any video/audio of th3 M70 BMW V12 in action? I want to hear it, preferrably without any turbos or anything, and better audio quality than those pixellated videos.

Thayne

12-12-2006, 11:59 PM

Hot!

///M-Power 3\\\

12-13-2006, 01:51 AM

criticize? no. it's more looking it over and noticing shortcuts and **** that were taken. of course we've got crazy respect for the guy. but wtf, if you're gonna go balls out and do something like that, why not do it all the way? zip ties?

Everyone cuts corners somewhere. I've seen many a car at the track with zip ties under the hood, duct tape holding the bumper together and the like. Also in my experience with competitive car audio i have found the loudest scores are almost always from shitty cars with bare wood enclosures, and glue and screws everywhere. Point being, he obviously doesn't have the car completed, this is evident in the fact that there are no intake pipes running to the turbos and no hood, and it is a preliminary run. I am sure that if it isn't done right now, in the near future he will have tied up the loose ends. I see more shitty ghetto-rigged cars around here that are crazy fast and are slapped together so half-assed you would be scared that they are even on the road. A friend of mine had a 300hp turbo civic with stock 14" steel wheels, stock suspension, brakes, etc. In fact the only other work he did was rip out all the interior and sound deadning, the carpet, and cut pieces away to save weight. I was in the car once and had to close my eyes as he lit the tires up at 80 mph in the rain with bald 14" stockers

CharlesAFerg

12-13-2006, 02:00 AM

Everyone cuts corners somewhere. I've seen many a car at the track with zip ties under the hood, duct tape holding the bumper together and the like. Also in my experience with competitive car audio i have found the loudest scores are almost always from shitty cars with bare wood enclosures, and glue and screws everywhere. Point being, he obviously doesn't have the car completed, this is evident in the fact that there are no intake pipes running to the turbos and no hood, and it is a preliminary run. I am sure that if it isn't done right now, in the near future he will have tied up the loose ends. I see more shitty ghetto-rigged cars around here that are crazy fast and are slapped together so half-assed you would be scared that they are even on the road. A friend of mine had a 300hp turbo civic with stock 14" steel wheels, stock suspension, brakes, etc. In fact the only other work he did was rip out all the interior and sound deadning, the carpet, and cut pieces away to save weight. I was in the car once and had to close my eyes as he lit the tires up at 80 mph in the rain with bald 14" stockers

Your friends are insane, how about you put your E34 to me on your will. ;-)

jjdickm

12-13-2006, 02:01 AM

i am going to need some time to myself and allot of lotion...

Espen

12-13-2006, 09:52 AM

The project is by no means finnished.
the Strip ties is just a temp solution.. Regarding the the steel, its to make the pressure equal on both sides.

saj3n

12-13-2006, 10:05 AM

So who wants to put one of those things in my car for me?

Jay 535i

12-13-2006, 10:17 AM

Estimated total project cost?

Booster

12-13-2006, 11:27 AM

I think its great ! Kudos to him for getting so far along. For those of us who wrench and fab on our own cars, the zipties etc. are simply signs of more to come. It takes ALOT of removal and replacement to get things that far. Some of you with critical eyes need to "hold tongue" sometimes. Your probablly the same outspoken chaps at car shows mouthing on about how your lawnmower has better paint etc.:p Nip it. Be cool.Admire others paths.
Most of us build a decent ,usable "mock-up" set up for awhile untill the full effort can be applied and finished.
Lookin good our German friend.
..........V'

Tiger

12-13-2006, 11:44 AM

Not criticism... mere observation that he know what people and tuners would say upon first look. I understand his delimma of having no room at all in the engine bay. He does have intercoolers which would solve this problem He understood that it is not ideal but acceptable minor loss of power at lower speed... which is negligible since he has nearly 300 HP of V12 power at bottom end and unspeakable HP at high RPM.

Now about hypocrite... that is an open ended double edge sword you just swallowed yourself... because everyone is an hypocrite to a degree. I didn't trash that guy's work, yet I didn't act like foremost expert on turbo setup. He could have run an intake pipes to behind the headlights for cooler air, but I think he is afraid of sucking water when raining... which would ruin the whole project... An airbox design would eliminate the water problem but takes space that he doesn't have...

Jon K

12-13-2006, 11:55 AM

Clean looking setup, but I'm confused by the hard pipe running between the two charge pipes. I suspect they were trying to equalize pressure but the twin setups and engine management runs each bank seperately, so I dont see a point to it.

The use of zip ties on oil lines like that is kind of sad too :(

That's my thoughts - they're equalizing the pressure but that doesn't seem necessary when its a V12 with seperate banks and 2 O2's they should be controlling fuel individually anyway.

Guys I want to clear some stuff up-

He will have absolutely no issue with sucking water up. I ran my turbo by the headlight with no filter, just a piece of aluminum screen over the intake. I did this for a couple months with no ill effect.

The heat issue - the turbos do get hot yes, but they aren't going to melt things if they're out of the way. The ABS unit is fine there. That pipe connecting the two charge pipes is rather pointless because its a twin turbo setup - it's two turbos each to a different bank of cylinders. He's obviously running some form of standalone engine management so it'd be easy to run two map sensors one to each manifold and handle each side seperate (thats how the V12 is from the factory, two MAFs). You can clearly see an oxygen sensor (definitely wideband) in each downpipe so its not a matter off question - they can handle fueling each band seperate.

It's a good setup over all - v12 turbo isn't something people do a lot. I am not sure that I'd do it because of cost of 2 turbos and everything - I'd rather an S38 single (big) turbo and make more power than the V12. But, to each their own.

MPD47

12-13-2006, 12:01 PM

Exactly Jon. Also, the Zip ties comment is stainless lines, attached to hard pipes with zip ties. Everything there is going to flex and the lines will cut those zip ties in under a day of WOT pulls.

Barry

12-13-2006, 12:54 PM

Jon K

12-13-2006, 01:19 PM

Mr Turbo Porche,Nissan,etc etc etc guy,The zip ties will last..Its the stainless oil lines that will eventually wear into the aliminium piping..These guys will see that soon and sort the finer details out.

I give these blokes serious kudo`s for this project..Well done!!
They might move the air filters or they might not! It does not matter,they attempted this and saw it through..That in my book is to be admired..

Barry I am not calling you out per se, but I know Mike (Mr Porsche) personally and the **** he has done and knows paramounts what you just said about oil lines wearing thru. I have oil lines on my plastic engine cover and there is no wear what so ever into the plastic, let alone if it were aluminum. Moreover, the use of zip ties is pretty frowned upon in fabricating. There is no reason to use zip ties there. They can feed the oil lines down thru the opening in the intake manifold like I have or simply run them appropriately and not tie stuff together. There's not one zip tie on my build, and I take pride in that :)

MPD47

12-13-2006, 01:30 PM

I have no problem with Zip Ties. I have a problem with them used in improper places. Zip ties are meant for wiring, or holding back a sleeved cable, NOT for stainless lines. Sorry Barry, I have to preface my comments with past experiences for people like you. Afterall everyone on the internet is an expert. What experience do you have with turbos, modified engines, etc, etc? I'd love to know what experience backs up your opinion, which is so clearly "the right one".

While the build "looks pretty" I'd be willing to bet this spends more time traveling to shows than actually using the engine. The amount of time put into the fabrication was no doubt significant, however the welds on the charge pipes look like gobs of snot. Not to mention this was done to be "unique" one can acheive an equal powerband with a much cheaper and easier to use engine (S5x, S3x).

Edit: Oh yeah, you think the zip ties wont be destroyed before the stainless rubs through the hard pipe? HAHAHAHAHA. Besides creating a setup where it WOULD rub through the hard pipes is a piss poor setup.

brosher

12-13-2006, 01:54 PM

This is awesome! I got mad love for the zip ties. I just used 4 on my car over the weekend.:p

Barry

12-13-2006, 02:08 PM

Jon,Agree totally with you on the zips..I just find it incredulous that people just have to criticize someones else's effort....

Its this damn internet mentality of "Oh,I would have done it much better.."
Throwing around the fact that you have OWNED turbo this and turbo that also does not impress me...

Some of us have done projects,some of us have not..We all wish we had or could,Im sure..
I look at your car for instance and say hell,thats a bloody nice car..good colour,very nice non fussy wheels ,brilliant stance..damn nice car..No way I'm going to criticize you .

I could also not agree on what you have done with your car,thats for me to keep to myself here...

I like your car very much btw.......:)

Aaah,Ive just read the reply above yours Jon...Now,This is not what I wanted to get into...My experience and involvement with cars,engines etc....
Very briefly,Im an Alfa Romeo man by heart..My current projects are building 3.8l Alfa 24v v6 engines for clients around the world..
Im busy with 4 single turbo Alfa 12v v6 engines at the moment,and have done a total of 17 of these 2.8l v6 turbo convertions..I built the Alfa Gta race cars for the S.A. production car series..enough..this to me is standing at the urinal trying to outdo the other bloke..

Mike,what your saying I agree with..Its the fact that we always ,wittingly or un-wittingly think we know better than the next guy...or the v12 TT builder

Sorry bout the sarcastic Mr Turbo thing...

Without being big headed,some of my latest projects..This is purely intended as some alternative eye candy,ok?

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/BarryHenning/DSC00004-1.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/BarryHenning/Twinsparkturbo.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/BarryHenning/Picture217.jpg

Barry

12-13-2006, 02:12 PM

The Z007 is simply my new sig...

MPD47

12-13-2006, 02:55 PM

Very pretty projects there. Those Alfa's are clean and "properly" done. No hard feelings what so ever. We all have our opinions and quirks when doing builds. I think the BMW V12 is a piece of trash (minus the S series). ;)

Alfa? Could it be that you have a tougher time with those than the occasional Austin Healey I wrench on? http://www.mturck.com/rofl.gif

Incantation

12-13-2006, 05:06 PM

ah that's fxcken wicked.. i can't wait to twin my e31 in the new year. kit should be ready by summer time. that thing just sounds.. vicious

Incantation

12-13-2006, 05:10 PM

is there a link to more about the car? i would like to see a dyno chart

Jon K

12-13-2006, 05:35 PM

Nice shots barry - care to share more?

Ross

12-13-2006, 05:49 PM

It would be very unfortunate if all that hard work went up in smoke due to that rat's nest of wires.

Kalevera

12-13-2006, 10:39 PM

If anybody wants to try this on their own E34, this will be available for sale in a few months:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v736/suzpectx/1.jpg

Stock, has around 90k miles, set up for an E34 (not that anything has to be changed on the engine side of things for it to fit). Price with the 6 speed is 14k, from what I heard.

One other thing I was going to add -- when I first looked at the pic in the first post, something looked wrong and I couldn't quite put my finger on it --

Notice how whoever built this car had to cut the intakes to get clearance? I wonder why every picture of the motor includes an intake cover.

Jon K

12-14-2006, 11:27 AM

Short runner intakes can provide more top end torque for a turbo application than stock long runners anyway thats why a lot of people do it to begin with but yeah it helps with the clearance.

MPD47

12-14-2006, 11:46 AM

No Jon.
Short runners = more low end
Bigger plenum/long = more top end.

Jon K

12-14-2006, 11:48 AM

No Jon.
Short runners = more low end
Bigger plenum/long = more top end.

Oopsies i mix it up everytime.

Barry

12-14-2006, 01:08 PM

Jon,Mike....Im chuckling at myself here....No **** stirring but.......

Short runners-better top end..
Long runners-better lower down..

On a turbo,Id go for the torque inducing long runners and let the turbo take care of the top end grunt..

On the Ford Focus ST we raced last year,the intake manifold was fitted with a switch over solenoid..This was switched from the long runners at lower rpm to the short runners for top end power at about 4600 rpm..Btw,I controlled this all with a Haltech e11 v2 ecu...

Jon,sure,Ill stick some more pics up for you guys...

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/BarryHenning/DSC00029.jpg

Maserati Ghibli engine I just finnished..Damn,these are impressive cars!!
Standing start,Bmw M5 v10 gets pulled 2 car lengths..at 200 km/h the beemer starts pulling ahead and by 250odd km/h its only 4 car lengths ahead..

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/BarryHenning/barry7.jpg

This little Alfa runs a turbo`ed 20l twin spark..400 wheel hp..Jerico box..Its a pile of fun..Took the Jerico out of the spare v8 racer..

The banner below was used for an advert when we beat the very dominant BMW 330i`s for the first time..a bit of tongue in cheek..

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/BarryHenning/alfa.jpg

Im low on Photobucket pics,will upload more..