Sachs throwout bearing is plastic?

[Jon K]

Weirdness - got my throwout bearing from Autohaus in a Sachs box etc., but the body is a hard composite type plastic while the surface is metal. Normal?

[BillionPa]

high strength composite plastic can be more durable than aluminum crush wise, as long as its covered in metal to be durable wear wise.

[Jon K]

http://blowneuroz.com/mygallery/Miscellaneous/throwout.jpg

Thats it - the metal is toward the surface... it inside and out at the end there, but the rest of the body toward the laptop is this composite. Its Sachs and OEM so I assume its normal.

[winfred]

they've been like that for years

[Booster]

The composite portion must ressonate less noise ?
..........V'

[Jon K]

they've been like that for years

Any probs or is it kosher? I'd hate to button it up and have the ol' "composite water pump" type issue.

[winfred]

they are less likely to gall up then the old metal ones on the sleeve it rides on, i usually lather up all of the mating surfaces with antiseize and let er rip


Any probs or is it kosher? I'd hate to button it up and have the ol' "composite water pump" type issue.

[Jon K]

they are less likely to gall up then the old metal ones on the sleeve it rides on, i usually lather up all of the mating surfaces with antiseize and let er rip

Thats another question I had - what all should I antisieze or lube when putting in my clutch? Someone said the trans input shaft but I am not very sure. What on the TO bearing do you lub, the metal face?

[winfred]

i lube the input shaft splines, pilot and the parts of the to bearing that touch the clutch fork and the center round part that slides on the tranny's snout, i don't worry about the part that hits the pressure plate

[Mr Project]

I usually put a tiny bit on the metal face, but I focus on the inside surface that slides back and forth on on the nose of the transmission. I also usually use high-temp wheel bearing grease...not sure if that's 'right' but it's worked well on the last 5 or 6 clutch jobs/engine swaps.

[Bill R.]

The composite plastic throwout bearings are not intended to use any grease on the guide shaft or sliding surface as seen here in the factory manual.They're more likely to have problems if you do use grease. The splines on the input shaft do require lubricant






Thats another question I had - what all should I antisieze or lube when putting in my clutch? Someone said the trans input shaft but I am not very sure. What on the TO bearing do you lub, the metal face?

[winfred]

i've seen too many of the later cars that came factory with plastic bearings that the snout that the bearing slides on is torn up from lack of lube, they don't seize like the old metal ones did but they can feel pretty shitty


The composite plastic throwout bearings are not intended to use any grease on the guide shaft or sliding surface as seen here in the factory manual.They're more likely to have problems if you do use grease. The splines on the input shaft do require lubricant

[Jon K]

Thanks for the infos guys - what sort of grease do you recommend. I have a generic "grease" gun with typical grey slimy ****. That'll do?

One more thing - talking to Scott H, he recommended I do the pilot bearing - is there any trick to getting that thing out of there?

[aston_jag_tech]

I use high temp wheel bearing grease for clutch jobs. To remove a pilot bearing, I use a pilot bearing removal tool. . Theres two lips/clamps that go in the bore, you turn the shaft ccw to open the lips/clamps and attached to the shaft is a slide hammer. POP!
Lube the pilot bearing well. I dont lube the splines because of grease throw off at high rpms. I clean them with a metal wire brush.

[Bill R.]

I'm sure that bmw had nothing better to do than to come up with these useless service bulletins regarding lubing throwout bearings and the special lube used on input shaft splines.








Thanks for the infos guys - what sort of grease do you recommend. I have a generic "grease" gun with typical grey slimy ****. That'll do?

One more thing - talking to Scott H, he recommended I do the pilot bearing - is there any trick to getting that thing out of there?

[winfred]

thud thud thud :D


One last attempt and then i give up.
.

[Mr Project]

Hmmm...it does make some sense that the grease would tend to attract and retain the clutch dust and so forth, and could cause build-up over the long term. I'm not sure why the plastic sleeves would be any different from the metal, though...unless they determined that the plastic sleeve was essentially self-lubricating.

Good info, thanks Bill. I don't think I'll drop the tranny out to clean up the grease, though. :)

[Bill R.]

The clutch dust and the metal particles from the flywheel are quite abrasive, when you take hard abrasive particles and you hold them in place on the throwout bearing sliding surface with grease they tend to imbed themselves into the plastic which then helps to score up the guide bushing on the transmission bell housing which is fairly soft anyway.



Hmmm...it does make some sense that the grease would tend to attract and retain the clutch dust and so forth, and could cause build-up over the long term. I'm not sure why the plastic sleeves would be any different from the metal, though...unless they determined that the plastic sleeve was essentially self-lubricating.

Good info, thanks Bill. I don't think I'll drop the tranny out to clean up the grease, though. :)

[BillionPa]

if you insist on lubricating the parts that arent supposed to be lubed, use moly or tungsten disulfide dry powder and buff it into the material. dont use any sort of "grease" that will hold abrasive particles.

[Jon K]

I wont lube the plastic if it doesnt call for it.

One more question I swear:

http://blowneuroz.com/mygallery/E34%20525i%20Turbo%20Build/clutch.jpg

It came - RealOEM shows "6 Fillister Bolts" in this link:
http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=HD53&mospid=47404&btnr=21_0008&hg=21&fg=05

However, there are more than 6 holes on my pressure plate for bolts. Additionally, do I need to get new bolts or can I just use the ones that will be in the car. And, what is #8, something to be replaced also?

[Bill R.]

You can reuse the old bolts and the clamping sleeves #8







I wont lube the plastic if it doesnt call for it.

One more question I swear:




However, there are more than 6 holes on my pressure plate for bolts. Additionally, do I need to get new bolts or can I just use the ones that will be in the car. And, what is #8, something to be replaced also?

[Jon K]

You can reuse the old bolts and the clamping sleeves #8

Excellent thanks bill - and is a clutch alignment tool available from the dealer?

[Mr Project]

Somebody was asking about the pilot bearing...I got stuck because I didn't have the 'right' tool that was described earlier in the thread, and there weren't any that were small enough to be found locally. I got in a time crunch because I was too stupid to order the right tool on time, and had to use an alternate method of removal. Risky, but it worked ok.

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/4062/img2507ce8.jpg
I cut through the inner race, removed the inner race and bearings, then VERY carefully cut through the outer race without scoring the crank. Badly.

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/2835/img2509smallye5.jpg

The new bearing also needs these three pieces that form the seal:
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/1761/img2511smalluk6.jpg

[gale]

Most replacement pilot bearings which are of this type:

http://img.eautopartscatalog.com/live/I1010132692NAC.JPG

are sealed and don't need the metal disk and felt pad, leave those parts out.

To remove the pilot bearing, simply repeatedly pack soft bread or PlayDoh into it thru the center hole with a close fitting size wood dowel and hammer and it will drive the bearing out from behind with hydrostatic pressure.

[Jon K]

Most replacement pilot bearings which are of this type:

http://img.eautopartscatalog.com/live/I1010132692NAC.JPG

are sealed and don't need the metal disk and felt pad, leave those parts out.

To remove the pilot bearing, simply repeatedly pack soft bread or PlayDoh into it thru the center hole with a close fitting size wood dowel and hammer and it will drive the bearing out from behind with hydrostatic pressure.


Thanks for the advice guys - can anyone tell me where to get the alignment tool, etc?

[Booster]

Hmmmm, all the clutches I've bought inthe past for other makes came with a blk delrin alignment tool.
Maybe because yours was custom, things were different ? Hopefully they are readily available.
Jon I failed to ask you if the ZF trans we were talking about is a direct fit, or if I'll need differing linkages etc ??
..........Vinny

[Mr Project]

gale - you're right, though in my case the bearing I got from BMA was not sealed. I used the part #s from the ETK to order.

Jon - since I had the engine and transmission on the floor already, I used it as my alignment tool. I tighten the PP bolts just enough that I can still move the clutch disk around, but not so loose that it flops around on its own. Then I take the tranny and fit it up to the engine, which centers the clutch disk. I then pull the tranny off as straight as possible, hopefully not disturbing the clutch disk position. Then tighten the bolts down.

It's worked several times for me when I didn't have an alignment tool handy, or couldn't get one that was right for my specific application (curse of working on oddball cars).