Can you EAT with Alcohol?

[Brazilianbimmer]

Does anyone know if the EAT chip will have any problems with Gasohol?

By some political misfortune, all gas sold here in Brazil contains 20% to 25% alcohol. (The actual percentage is dictated by the Govt. based on market indicators.)

I purchased the EAT chip from Mark D. over a year ago but I have not installed it yet. I have been chasing other issues in the car which are now resolved.

I am getting ready to install it and I don't see any reason why the alcohol will be an issue, but I wanted to check if anyone has any thoughts on this.

Thanks

D.

[Jon K]

Good question - because the EAT chip utilizes more advanced timing to make more power, it's a tough call. The fuel with 15% ethanol is considered to have a higher octane rating, so they say, than the base fuel. So in theory then, it'd be BETTER... but I've read the opposite. I am relatively active on the MSEFI.com forum and people have asked about running flex fuel, but that's a different subject slightly. I'd like to see Mark's input on this.

If you think of it this way:

Stock vehicles that require 89/90 octane (cars requiring "premium" fuel) either need it because of timing or motor/cylinder head construction to be ideal with the factory tune. I have had issues with my mothers Range Rover, when she would run fuel with 15% ethanol down south (Her and sister drive to NC from PA) - Check Engine Light came on for about 3 miles my mom said, and I haven't checked for codes because I am fairly certain it may have just pinged a little and set the knock sensor off - then the ECU adapts to that ping and all is well. However, if the "alcohol", which generally has higher octane rating than base fuel, causes pinging, then how is the octane higher... hrmmm. I will state that I am not well-versed in fuel technologies and perhaps I am completely backwards in thinking the fuel is higher octane - we run methanol on drag cars and that sure as hell is rated higher than pump fuel :)

[BillionPa]

ethanol is higher octane. you should not run into pinging, unless you use too low of an octane gas, but the engine output will be lower than it is supposed to be. low octane gas that has higher ethanol content is BAD gas and should be avoided like the plague.

it will upset the O2 sensor balance on newer cars with sensors after the cats and throw the CEL. at least temporarily untill the computer figures out whats going on.

the problems you will run into with ethanol is corrosion of the metal gas tank (if you have one) and lower life of all the fuel lines and the fuel pump. they are not designed to be subjected to corrosive compounds for extended periods of time.

unlike straight gasoline, ethanol blends are electrically conductive and absorb water, which creates all sorts of problems for cars that have submerged electronic devices in the tank. the exposed current causes ionization, which combined with the water causes corrosive oxidation. add a bit of Stabil to every tank (1 ounce every 5 gallons or so) to help prevent water absorbtion.

[Jon K]

ethanol is higher octane. you should not run into pinging, unless you use too low of an octane gas, but the engine output will be lower than it is supposed to be. low octane gas that has higher ethanol content is BAD gas and should be avoided like the plague.

it will upset the O2 sensor balance on newer cars with sensors after the cats and throw the CEL. at least temporarily untill the computer figures out whats going on.

the problems you will run into with ethanol is corrosion of the metal gas tank (if you have one) and lower life of all the fuel lines and the fuel pump. they are not designed to be subjected to corrosive compounds for extended periods of time.

unlike straight gasoline, ethanol blends are electrically conductive and absorb water, which creates all sorts of problems for cars that have submerged electronic devices in the tank. the exposed current causes ionization, which combined with the water causes corrosive oxidation. add a bit of Stabil to every tank (1 ounce every 5 gallons or so) to help prevent water absorbtion.


Ethanol won't corrode the gas tank, it'll eat the rubber lines... over YEARs of use...

[Russell]

Brazil has required high percentage of alcohol for many years. Would not, all cars imported to Brazil be required to to be compatible with alcohol? Therefore no damage to the fuel system. As for the EAT chip, it would seem to just make sure you meet the required octane requirement??

BTW, Brazil's fuel policy is often used by enviromentalists as a model for the US to consider.

[brick8]

Where I live, a 10% ethanol blend is mandatory in all gasoline sold for on the road use. It creates all kind of problems in small engines and in motors that are not used year round because it turns to crud so quickly.

[BillionPa]

well, in brazil you pretty much have to use ethanol, to compensate for cutting down all those carbon dioxide absorbing trees.

ethanol will only corrode the metal tank if it absorbs water.
and as for fuel lines, as you increase the ethanol content, it causes a much higher level of damage.

[Brazilianbimmer]

The car was imported before the policy was instituted. It seems to run fine but I get 16 to 19 mpg. (At US$ 4.00 a gallon)
We are in danger of turning this into a political discussion rather than a technical one, but I will add this:
The "Policy" was instituted in Brazil because the government had encouraged many investors to go into the ethanol business and when the "experiment" failed, they had to make it mandatory to put ethanol in Gas so these investors would not revolt. It is nothing more than a buy-off. Ethanol gives less mileage than gasoline and it requires large amounts of diesel and gasoline to produce. In the end it is a losing proposition.

[Brazilianbimmer]

If you believe what the media tells you... The environmental laws here are very strict. Unfortunately there are large amounts of corruption in the system. Believe it or not, most of the cutting is done by foreign companies who export the wood and get away with murder. I can tell you it is a real adjustment living here. You have to watch out for many things you don't even think about in the US.

As for the tank. The car has been running with 20% ethanol for years, it seems to do fine. I was just wondering if it would affect the EAT chip performance in any way.

[Russell]

Interersting. Does that mean that the rubber parts can be damaged by high % of ethanol and is metal corrosion possible as well? I have always heard that anything over 10% on US cars can cause all sorts of damage? Just wondering?

[Brazilianbimmer]

I can tell you the fuel pump was replaced at 70K miles and I just had to refurbish it because it failed at 115K miles. Maybe that's because of the ethanol? So far no obvious damage to the fuel tank or lines. (Knock on wood.)