after years of threats i finally m-coupe suspensioned the e30

[winfred]

http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/26/427251/m%20coupe%20suspension/fsidee30.JPG
http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/26/427251/m%20coupe%20suspension/rsidee30.JPG
http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/26/427251/m%20coupe%20suspension/mwheel.JPG
http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/26/427251/m%20coupe%20suspension/stock%20lift.JPG

[winfred]

http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/26/427251/m%20coupe%20suspension/f%20rotors%201.JPG
http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/26/427251/m%20coupe%20suspension/f%20rotors%203.JPG
http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/26/427251/m%20coupe%20suspension/f%20rotors%202.JPG
http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/26/427251/m%20coupe%20suspension/f%20caliper.JPG

[winfred]

http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/26/427251/m%20coupe%20suspension/rear%20caliper.JPG
http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/26/427251/m%20coupe%20suspension/r%20rotor%202.JPG
http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/26/427251/m%20coupe%20suspension/r%20rotor%201.JPG
http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/26/427251/m%20coupe%20suspension/rr%20suspension.JPG

[markus]

there sure is a lot more rotor now. the E30 brakes are wimpy looking.

[winfred]

http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/26/427251/m%20coupe%20suspension/lr%20suspension.JPG
http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/26/427251/m%20coupe%20suspension/rf%20suspension.JPG
http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/26/427251/m%20coupe%20suspension/lf%20suspension.JPG
http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/26/427251/m%20coupe%20suspension/rr%20brake%20line.JPG

[winfred]

http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/26/427251/m%20coupe%20suspension/mother****er%201.JPG
http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/26/427251/m%20coupe%20suspension/motherr****er%202.JPG
http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/26/427251/m%20coupe%20suspension/rf%20suspension1.JPG
http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/26/427251/m%20coupe%20suspension/lf%20suspension1.JPG

[winfred]

http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/26/427251/m%20coupe%20suspension/r%20tower.JPG
http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/26/427251/m%20coupe%20suspension/l%20tower.JPG
http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/26/427251/m%20coupe%20suspension/rr%20lift.JPG
http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/26/427251/m%20coupe%20suspension/rf%20lift.JPG

[GJPinAU]

Mate, that looks HOT! Well done!:D

Much of a difference in road feel?

[winfred]

750il master cylinder
e36 m3 front control arms with e30 m3 control arm bushings combined to double the caster and center the wheel in the well
bilsteins
4 front m-coupe/roadster rims
m-coupe axles hooked to e28 stub shafts going into the stock 3.73 posi
the abs system works (with a little work)
ride ain't too bad it's better then a e36 m3 but not too much better :D
all the way up to a full abs stop it's straight with no pull
took right at 10 hours by myself (had a helper to stab in the bolts while i held the rear arms)
in the future ill get some cross drilled rotors and ceramic pads
body roll has just about been squashed
can't wait for a dry road to really flog it :D

[Denton]

You and I are EXACT opposites.

I respect very much your mechanical ability, quite amazing. But I've got to laugh about how it looks...I'm sure it will take quite a few people by surprise.

My '85 Cinnabar E30 will someday get that suspension. Give me three years. ;)

[winfred]

ya wanna know an amusing fact, i have about $90 in the whole set up at the moment :D that's what i have in the used e36 m3 front arms everything else came from da yard

ya don't like the wheels? i was wondering if id like them but once they got on the car i like them a lot, and i usually don't like big flashy wheels but the 17"s kinda fit the body and the tires are the same overall height as the stockers


You and I are EXACT opposites.

I respect very much your mechanical ability, quite amazing. But I've got to laugh about how it looks...I'm sure it will take quite a few people by surprise.

My '85 Cinnabar E30 will someday get that suspension. Give me three years. ;)

[Denton]

ya wanna know an amusing fact, i have about $90 in the whole set up at the moment :D that's what i have in the used e36 m3 front arms everything else came from da yard

ya don't like the wheels? i was wondering if id like them but once they got on the car i like them a lot, and i usually don't like big flashy wheels but the 17"s kinda fit the body and the tires are the same overall height as the stockers

I LOVE the wheels. I actually wanted Roadstars for my E34 but didn't want to screw with spacers.

I'm also a little surprised at how high it rides, no offense. Probably better considering the peril that the oil pan is in.

That's not an M50 in there, is it?

Are you going to do any cosmetic mods, i.e. PAINTMATCH the car and removet the tint? Euro trim? :)

Those wheels aren't flashy at all.

Amazing how little you spent. It'll be a $2k expenditure for me, I can't even wrench, lol. I'm only going to do it because I like the wheel selection much better with 5x120 wheels. I may swap my M-Systems to the Zinno car, or put Style 5s on it. Who knows...

[632 Regal]

the difference in rotors is unbelievable! that things going to flip over when you hit em.

[winfred]

ill get a accurate ride height difference monday after everything settles but it's a little lower then it was which was just about what i was looking for, m20 now but if i find a deal on a m88/s38 it'll happen, i have a new shreck cam and a couple other goodies to build a hot m20, i am going to retint the glass soon the 7-8 odd years i've had it the tint it had on it when i got it has really gone down this year, i have a late e30 318 on the yard so black trim is soon to be installed, also a new non cracked dash, i was going to paint the white bits but the nice black paint it had when i got it is getting tired and i need to paint moms e30 too (sterling silver 90 325isa) so a paint job is in the future too, a cheeper route to go is e36 325 front brakes with a 318ti/z3 rear set up (ill try to work up a price if you want, i have a couple set up's like that) the thing that makes my set up hideously expensive is the rare brakes 325 stuff will still be a upgrade and is common



I LOVE the wheels. I actually wanted Roadstars for my E34 but didn't want to screw with spacers.

I'm also a little surprised at how high it rides, no offense. Probably better considering the peril that the oil pan is in.

That's not an M50 in there, is it?

Are you going to do any cosmetic mods, i.e. PAINTMATCH the car and removet the tint? Euro trim? :)

Those wheels aren't flashy at all.

Amazing how little you spent. It'll be a $2k expenditure for me, I can't even wrench, lol. I'm only going to do it because I like the wheel selection much better with 5x120 wheels. I may swap my M-Systems to the Zinno car, or put Style 5s on it. Who knows...

[winfred]

last night when it was dry out while seeing if i could drive it home (couldn't had a minor booster problem and it was 10 pm so i said **** it) i tagged them good once and the seatbelt almost hurt :D


the difference in rotors is unbelievable! that things going to flip over when you hit em.

[Robin-535im]

last night when it was dry out while seeing if i could drive it home (couldn't had a minor booster problem and it was 10 pm so i said **** it) i tagged them good once and the seatbelt almost hurt :D
Dang!

Does it all bolt in or did you have to fab anything? What was that snapped stud that you easy-out'd?

If it took YOU 10 hours... hate to think how long it would take me. Certainly a 1-of-a-kind E30 now. Nice work.

[genphreak]

Dang!

Does it all bolt in or did you have to fab anything? What was that snapped stud that you easy-out'd?

If it took YOU 10 hours... hate to think how long it would take me. Certainly a 1-of-a-kind E30 now. Nice work.Definately needs a write up winfred! In the highly articulate fashion that only you can manage I might add... :) looks really great. I've heard that e36 sheels can screw up the e30 offset- or is this ony if one goes too wide? Do the e36 arms affect offset at all as well as the camber? Are you using spacers or different mounts? If one goes to e36 rims is the arm all you have to add or are you including struts/hubs... ie anything else as well? :) Nick

[nizmainiac]

looks good, i like the fact that you've spent very little to get it done as well:)
i'd be interested to know what you're going to do to the m20

[winfred]

pretty much a bolt in with the right combo, a cheeper and more avalable and up would be 318ti/z3 rear's and regular e36 325 front brakes, the bolt was the inner lf control arm bolt, not a huge deal but after about 8 hours at it i was annoyed, but that and the rod popping out of place in the brake booster and nearly locking the brakes on the test drive was the only real problems


Dang!

Does it all bolt in or did you have to fab anything? What was that snapped stud that you easy-out'd?

If it took YOU 10 hours... hate to think how long it would take me. Certainly a 1-of-a-kind E30 now. Nice work.

[winfred]

these are 8.5" wide rims with no spacers and no rubbing (maybe a tad at full lock but i had that before with the 215/60/14s) , struts arms and hubs, the key is combining e30 m3 front bushings with e36 front arms, otherwise the front wheel sits too back and is not centered, you also need to redrill two of the upper strut mount holes

ps it's riding a little lower today after driving all day sunday things are getting settled, don't have mesurments yet but ill bring one pic to the top
http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/26/427251/m%20coupe%20suspension/fsidee30.JPG


Definately needs a write up winfred! In the highly articulate fashion that only you can manage I might add... :) looks really great. I've heard that e36 sheels can screw up the e30 offset- or is this ony if one goes too wide? Do the e36 arms affect offset at all as well as the camber? Are you using spacers or different mounts? If one goes to e36 rims is the arm all you have to add or are you including struts/hubs... ie anything else as well? :) Nick

[winfred]

ain't completely decided, stay tuned :D



i'd be interested to know what you're going to do to the m20

[OneBeLow]

these are 8.5" wide rims with no spacers and no rubbing (maybe a tad at full lock but i had that before with the 215/60/14s)

good job on the swap

Im a little confused on the size of the rims, OEM wheels are 17x7.5 and 17x9, were did you get the 8.5in?

[winfred]

they are 7.5, i was thinking about when i balanced the tires the calipers read 8.5 on the outside and it stuck in my head


good job on the swap

Im a little confused on the size of the rims, OEM wheels are 17x7.5 and 17x9, were did you get the 8.5in?

[TC535i]

Winfred, Kim pulled her head off the 325 to put a new gasket on (external oil leak). Besides needing stem seals and guides, the intake valves had wear on the stems (you could feel how worn down they were with your fingernail) so we replaced those. Exhaust weren't as bad (and cost twice as much), so we passed on those, decided to give em another 200k then we'll take another look. ;)

That M20 is quite a tank...!

[winfred]

some m50s had valve guide problems but i think they had figured it out for the vanos cars, ain't seen too many bad valves themselves, the exhaust valves on most cars cost twice or more what the intakes cost due to either stellite coating or sodium filling, both of which help cool the valve


Winfred, Kim pulled her head off the 325 to put a new gasket on (external oil leak). Besides needing stem seals and guides, the intake valves had wear on the stems (you could feel how worn down they were with your fingernail) so we replaced those. Exhaust weren't as bad (and cost twice as much), so we passed on those, decided to give em another 200k then we'll take another look. ;)

That M20 is quite a tank...!

[TC535i]

Sorry, M20... her E30 325.

I misspoke, I think it was the exhaust valves we replaced (the smaller ones). Intake and exhaust guides were just worn, but that's normal on 200k+ miles.

[winfred]

i've only seen one m20 with worn guides and it was one of the most thrashed abused cars i've seen, i did the head 3 times and the block twice, the last time he roasted it we said no more, here buy this volvo you can't kill this nearly as easyly, and for about 3 years till it got rearended and totaled he had little problem with the mighty 740 volvo

[Johntee540]

Get ready to do the 120mph - to 50mph Mambo in 100 feet! - Sweet job Winfred! - JT

[winfred]

some 100+ hard stomps are definetly in the plans, it was dry enough on the way home to play a little and it's smooth, i haven't even changed the pads yet and these kinda suck, they are a little cold natured but they will pass till i have the time to order/install some cross drilled rotors (pure sex appeal and they only cost me a few more bucks then regular a piece) and ceramic pads, not many people know this brake set up has 4 different rotors one for each position on the car, they are directionally vented all the way around, it's amusing to try to explain to cheep customers that left and right rotors are different so i need to know which one you destroyed if you don't want both


Get ready to do the 120mph - to 50mph Mambo in 100 feet! - Sweet job Winfred! - JT

[winfred]

it's still gray rainy and shitty so no real testing yet but i took another pic when i got to work this morning, it's definetly a little lower now that it's had time to settle, it came down to right about where i want it
http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/26/427251/m%20coupe%20suspension/r%20e30.JPG

[genphreak]

What a credit to ya Winfred. That is perfect (practical) height and would be very sticky on normal roads too. I hope to get my E34 to sit (looking) like that.

One day u must drive past the babes (and scare em in the truck) and the next day passing the same ones they probably check YOU out... LOL

My suspension is a mish mash (that works very well) at present: 540 Mtechs in the rear are too low (they need M5 offset bushings and maybe trailing arms), but the fronts are perfect (once I cut down the bump stops as per Jeff's inspirational (if vodka enduced) garage 'creativity').

I'm doing new brakes soon so the struts come back out then so that the rears will get my old 535 mtech springs back but on the 540 Billie sports. I don't know the diffference in the seat height (if any between the 535 and 540 spec shock) but that's the plan. Will see how they go. On the Bilstein rear shocks I've seen you get two spring heights to choose from (about 10mm apart) on the 535 shock but only one on the 540. Dunno if this could screw up my plan. At present the front of rail is lower to the ground than the rear by 5-10mm, but the eibach/H&R setups would net 15-25mm difference. I guess this is by design, the car handles really well now.

Thanks for the e30 suspension tips, I'm helping the neighbour with his new M20 powered e30 atm which we picked up really cheaply. We're putting on new shocks, a Miller MAF kit, slotted discs and rebuilt calipers on it at present. Have to add cruise and an OBC plus the usual hoses and so on. Nothing too special, he's hardly a rally driver (is over 60) but he wants to enjoy his first rockin' bimmer.

The only problem it really shows is spongey brakes and the temp gauge site on 1/4 instad of 1/2 way. New brake fluid didn't fix the brakes, I'm hoping its the new pads the PO put on worn discs. If it ends up bot being that it could only be the master cylinder I guess, the pedal does not drop though.

:) Nick

[winfred]

the temp gauge on the later style e30 cooling system where the bottle swaps sides on the car i find more often then not will ride at the first line while moving and come up to half if it idles long enough, some of the early cars do that too, when i plug in with my scanner they are usually reading around 180* at the first line (when they want to read at the 1/4 mark, others will be 180 or so at the half mark) i played with temp senders and gauges a while back and they all did the same thing, sorta the evil oposite of the modern gauges where they are so dampened the bastard never moves. on brakes sometimes if the rotors are not even enough the pads need to seat to the rotors to get the pedal firmed up, maybe a short drive is all that needed if you just have a little spongeyness, as in it's not hitting the floor



The only problem it really shows is spongey brakes and the temp gauge site on 1/4 instad of 1/2 way. New brake fluid didn't fix the brakes, I'm hoping its the new pads the PO put on worn discs. If it ends up bot being that it could only be the master cylinder I guess, the pedal does not drop though.

:) Nick

[535ise]

Which springs are you using ?

Is the front M coupe struts the same as the E36 M3's ?

Old interweb myth says even with the E36 M3 Evo control arms and E30 M3 ecentric bushes the front wheel will sit too far back in the arch and have an adverse effect on the castor angle, but you've busted that myth by the looks of it ?

I'd love to go 5 lug some time, better brakes and wheel choice on an E30 would be nice :)

[winfred]

m coupe rear springs and i am not sure what i grabbed for the front, they had blue and pink color markings, e36 something may be m3 (it was late when i was at that stage and had just worked out what to use for the upper mounts, e36 325 and redrill the two inner holes about 1/4" offset in the strut tower) when it had finally settled i wound up exactly at the stock height which i like but without the 1/4" lean to the drivers side (208k mile springs had aperently taken a set) it came down a good 1/2" from when i put it together. the combo of the e36 m3 arms and the e30 m3 bushings center the wheel, most people seem to cheep out on one or the other, it drives great! it's even good in the rain you can hit huge puddles and it no longer wants to dive into the ditch like with the stock setup, 100+ mph it's not even the same car, it's as solid as my e34 was


Which springs are you using ?

Is the front M coupe struts the same as the E36 M3's ?

Old interweb myth says even with the E36 M3 Evo control arms and E30 M3 ecentric bushes the front wheel will sit too far back in the arch and have an adverse effect on the castor angle, but you've busted that myth by the looks of it ?

I'd love to go 5 lug some time, better brakes and wheel choice on an E30 would be nice :)

[535ise]

Cool, thanks for the info.

[winfred]

i need to dig around to make sure but i think i can put together another set up minus the shocks and wheels, but i do beleave you are on the wrong side of the pond for that to be useful info
http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/26/427251/m%20coupe%20suspension/rear%20quarter.JPG


Cool, thanks for the info.

[ILoveMPower]

Settled very nicely, get that front piece painted up... is there already an iS lip?

mtech 1 ftw

[winfred]

no that's the I lip, the IS usually gets ripped off as it hangs a couple inches lower, from 122k when i got it to 209k now it's only had the inferior prepubescent front spoiler, new they are like $150 and non existent used, seen a few over priced ones on da bay but that's it

maybe something like this if it didn't need to come half way around the world (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-ALPINA-FRONT-SPOILER-E30-325-316-318-M3-NEW_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33638QQihZ003QQitem Z130072235850QQrdZ1)


Settled very nicely, get that front piece painted up... is there already an iS lip?

mtech 1 ftw

[Jr ///M5]

I'll bet she's much more planted during take-offs and carrier landing stops. You got your eye out for some S38 or maybe just an E36 M3 motor for that lightweight? Nice job winfred, now with the 5 lugger you've just opened up your wheel options. Wonder what a set of those E30 M3 bulging fenders cost?;)

Great job buddy, now you can really terrorize the streets of Loweezianner.:D

JR

[winfred]

i want a s38/m88-3 and have wanted one since one slipped though my fingers about a year ago that still pisses me off, theres a m88-3 up for grabs that the guy wants a mint for around here but i am biding my time, the price has come down a fair amount but is still wayyyyy more then i am willing to pop, i have a nice new m20 shrick cam stashed in my tool box i may build a high compression tight m20 to play with till i find something juicy

[535ise]

i need to dig around to make sure but i think i can put together another set up minus the shocks and wheels, but i do beleave you are on the wrong side of the pond for that to be useful info


Yeah, unfortunately :(

Sorry, one last question, is the rolling radius of those wheels/tyres fairly close to E30 boots ?

[winfred]

stock is 195/65/14 i went with 215/45/17s to help correct the factory speedo error, e30s average about 5 mph high at highway speeds

195/65-14 5.0" 12.0" 24.0" 75.3" 841/mi 60MPH 10000mi N/A
215/45-17 3.8" 12.3" 24.6" 77.3" 819/mi 58MPH 9741mi 2.7%
215/40-17 3.4" 11.9" 23.8" 74.7" 848/mi 61MPH 10088mi -0.9%


Yeah, unfortunately :(

Sorry, one last question, is the rolling radius of those wheels/tyres fairly close to E30 boots ?