oil sludge pics

[shogun]

http://www.pvgarage.com/id12.html

[Antrieb]

I thought there were solvents to prevent sludge in modern day oil?

[aston_jag_tech]

That f****** Rocks!!! I love the ignorance of people. money in my pocket. (hehehe)

[LunatiC]

That reminds me, my oil needs changing...

[3rdE34]

yuk!! thats it no more synthetic oils for me

[TC535i]

Heh... just did my 540i this week. Need to drop the pan, but I don't think I'll be able to until after tax season. :(

Hope I don't have anything like that looking up at me when I get around to it...!

[Anton CH.]

I knew that 14k mile changes was just a marketing gimick, thanks for the evidence.

[winfred]

i've got some pics as good or better then the v8 oil pan pic on the home pc ill post tonight, i don't know if it's the piece of **** pcv system modern oil/gas or everybody is paying attention to the 15k oil service but these newer motors look like ****, lotsa sludge at under 100k on 5-8 year old engines and it's seriously breaking down the rubber gaskets on these motors, i've yet to see one that didn't have atleast a little pudding inside

[brick8]

I ignore the green/red idiot lights and change the oil every 3-4 months or 3,000-4,000 miles whichever comes first. Saabs are having the same problem with sludge now. I don't think it has anything to do with oil quality or motor design, just believe it is the idiocy of longer oil change intervals. Car manufacturers could care less as long as the motor lasts to the end of the factory warranty period.

[JerseySi]

Thats pretty gross indeed!

My 535 currently works on the 'total loss' principle - have to add a litre of oil every 3,000-ish miles, thanks to a less-than-great front crank seal :s
Hell, at least it means the oil doesn't get chance to sludge up like that!
:D

(it doesn't leak oil - it just marks it's terretory - just like a dog :D )

[ILoveMPower]

Well it looks like this validates my 3K oil changes

[Antrieb]

Here is my 530i oil pan during the rebuild. Not as bad but I have oil pump bolts!

http://zwilliams.smugmug.com/photos/100610579-M.jpg

[DanDombrowski]

Every time I start my 330Ci, it states how long I have left until my next change. I'm sticking to my normal plan (every 15k on synth + 1 in between, so basically every 7500), but the reminder can get pretty darn convincing.

Take someone who doesn't know and have them put regular oil in and listen to the 15k reminder, and you've got a recipe for disaster.

[Blitzkrieg Bob]

oil change every three bars

[BillionPa]

synthetic oil? i dont think so, looks like "fake" synthetic oil, like Syntec, the BMW stuff, or Pennzoil Platinum.

real synthetic oil on an engine with good compression would NOT leave that crap all over the place.

[brick8]

Is Quaker State synthetic real synthetic? I saw it for sale here recently for just over $4 a quart.

[winfred]

http://members.cox.net/wdixon27/sludge4.jpg
http://members.cox.net/wdixon27/sludge6.jpg
http://members.cox.net/wdixon27/sludge5.jpg

[winfred]

holding about 1/2" above the top of the pan
http://members.cox.net/wdixon27/sludge3.jpg
desert is served (yes it's stiff enough to hold up the spoon)
http://members.cox.net/wdixon27/sludge2.jpg

[shogun]

I guess they did not need a oil pan gasket :p

[RallyD]

that is downright disgusting.
makes me want to brave the 10*F and change the oil tomorrow.

[Gayle]

Thank you for posting this thread. Whit posted the first pictures I saw like this and then they disappeared or I just couldn't find them. There are occassions I want to post them in response to what someone says and it has been so frustrating to be unable to find them. If I were still the librarian in charge of bimmernuggets, this thread would definitely go there. Hint hint Jeff.

[NovceGuru]

http://members.cox.net/wdixon27/sludge4.jpg


Chocolate Pudding? Mom?

[rob101]

desert is served (yes it's stiff enough to hold up the spoon)
http://members.cox.net/wdixon27/sludge2.jpg
mmmmmmm I think i might buy some gelati and put it in my engine.

do you guys have any similar pictures of how the so called "lifetime fluid" affects the later bmw automatic transmissions?

[winfred]

nothing much to really see, auto trannys don't really make sludge unless they get water in them and then it's kinda like a cross between pepto bismol and cottage cheese, about all you see is the bits of clutch in the pan


mmmmmmm I think i might buy some gelati and put it in my engine.

do you guys have any similar pictures of how the so called "lifetime fluid" affects the later bmw automatic transmissions?

[rob101]

nothing much to really see, auto trannys don't really make sludge unless they get water in them and then it's kinda like a cross between pepto bismol and cottage cheese, about all you see is the bits of clutch in the pan
bummer, i once had a massive argument with a dude about the nature of lifetime fluid. he was one of the "bmw knows better than you" kinds of people.

personally i would change it every 100 000 kms, I can't see any lubricant lasting longer than that without a change of filter or water seperator.
what are your thoughts/experiences on the subject?

[BillionPa]

the lifetime fluid doesnt really turn into sludge, but it does turn black and varnish the metal.... thats bad. change it at the 60K mile tuneup if you want the tranny to last.

oh, quaker state seems to have the specs of real synthetic, but with a listing of noack volatility "<13%" it looks more like fake synthetic. unless they specify the exact volatility, and its much lower, i wont conclude otherwise. thats for the 5W40 "euro" formulation btw. The "Q" advanced synthetic line also has extremely high volatility and extremely low HTHS, which means they are not group 4/5 synthetics. also their tech data sheets are all screwed up, dont look at them for any useful info.

any oil with specs like that is 3000 mile oil MAX, and will cause more wear in those 3000 miles than a real synthetic with ester oil will in 7500. the exception seems to be pennzoil platinum, which gets low wear at up to 10K mile intervals (not severe duty driving). havent had anyone take apart one of those and check for sludge though!

[shogun]

Some of my japanese friends use now Chevron Dexron III Mercon in their E32 750 trannies. Bottle costs less than $ 2. So a change costs less than $ 20 DIY.
One is using it even in his Alpina B12 since some years, no problem at all he says.
http://www.ryderfleetproducts.com/cgi-bin/ryderfp/products/product_detail.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0150385466.113 4798521@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccccaddgfeijmjhcfkmcgfmdfoldflm.0&oid=71809
The other stuff is pretty expensive here and a complete change on a tranny costs here at least 250 $. But of course, fluid approved by BMW.

Chevron says:

MERCON® (Ford Vehicles, 1980 – 1999)
Most Ford vehicles manufactured between 1980 and 1999 specify a MERCON® ATF. ATFs that meet DEXRON®-III requirements usually meet the MERCON® requirements as well.
-------------------------------
I am tempted to try that also next time. Just changed it with the approved fluid 2 months ago, but after 1 year I will change it to the cheap stuff from Chevron.
No big risk, I still have a spare tranny on stock.

[Milkboot]

It scares me :(



*going to bed with nightmares now*

[liquidtiger720]

I'm sure mine looks like that....once in awhile, I forget about oil changes(because I have my mind buried in books), and it gets stretched to 5k.

[RSK540iA]

I remember seeing the exact sludge on a 70's Volvo 164E my father had, but not in the sump, on his car the chocolate mousse flowed out the coolant system expansion bottle!

I think what you have here is a case of water mixing with the oil, be it through a cracked water jacket or leaking head gasket.

[RSK540iA]

I recall similar scenes after opening up old Jaguar XJ6 engines due for an overhaul in the 80's.

My second car, a '85 Peugeot 505 GTi gets its oil changed every 10,000 km or 6 months. I use normal 20W/50 multi-grade, not synthetic. I've now done over 240,000 km and when setting the tappets everything still looks as good as new. I did the head gasket at 180,000 and could still clearly see the honing marks.

I think I'll take my 540i's tappet cover off one of these days just for a look. Maybe I should follow the same 10,000km/6 months routine. At the last oil change I was advised not to use a fully synthetic as this was apparently too thin for such an old engine.

[BillionPa]

10W60 fully synthetic is too thin!?!?

not that he was suggesting that grade, but come on!

[Barney Paull-Edwards]

Simple answer to reason for sludge.Temperature.The reason my 525TDS has done 270k untouched is that it gets warmed up gently and then cruises flat out! My M5 does pub runs or race tracks and sludges up.My only tip to reduce it is not one for all but it works for me.Before changes Idrain oil and add 50/50 oil/diesel, run up and drain.It could be argued that this dislodges **** and blocks oilways but it has`nt in my case.The M5 has done 170k so in my case it works.High Sulphur Supermarket causes a friends Elise to blow black smoke and run rough,and contaminates the oil.

[Ausmpower]

O.k Most of you know I work for a dealer In Western Australia.

A couple of points:

My own E34 ('90) has always been serviced as per service light intervals.

The previous owner to me was employed by the same dealership (service manager = free servicing).

My point is, the car has always been dealer serviced (we do it ourselves after hours) and I have ZERO sludge in the top end, minor varnishing (normal, just discoloration) on the underside of the rocker cover (did the tappets last friday night)..... I always use the Castrol Softec LL01.

My M30 is the original with 280,000 km on it.

Head gasket was done @ 100,000 km as a precaution.

Major contibutors for sludge formation are:

Condensation (short drives or cold weather combined with short drives)

Poor fuel quality.

Owner added fuel additives.

low quality oil / incorrect grade.


My dealer is the only dealer in my state, we operate with a constant booking lead in of 2 weeks for oil services, we have 60 technicians.........

Yet I cannot for the life of me remember an engine rebuild being done through sludge formation....I've seen 2 severely cooked (owners kept driving after cooling system hose or radiator failure) motors replaced in the last 12 months and one other with a sheared crank (manual- 5th to 1st at 110kph!).

But then again we don't have sub zero winters and gridlock is minimal....

Seeing the sludge pictures that have been posted.......All I can think of is cheap crap no name multigrade oil........ Missed services (like a few!), non functional PCV system (more likely) or overheating conditions (pics in original link-baked on black crap).

Re: The oil pan with semi-solid gunk: How could a service technician not spot the reduced oil pan capacity when refilling during a normal service?????

[Ausmpower]

bummer, i once had a massive argument with a dude about the nature of lifetime fluid. he was one of the "bmw knows better than you" kinds of people.

personally i would change it every 100 000 kms, I can't see any lubricant lasting longer than that without a change of filter or water seperator.
what are your thoughts/experiences on the subject?


Bmw recommends lifetime trans flush IS carried out every 100,000 km of 'normal' driving, but most owners don't want to fork out for the flushing costs.

[winfred]

no mixing here all shitty oil, coolant sludge is a different animal


I remember seeing the exact sludge on a 70's Volvo 164E my father had, but not in the sump, on his car the chocolate mousse flowed out the coolant system expansion bottle!

I think what you have here is a case of water mixing with the oil, be it through a cracked water jacket or leaking head gasket.

id go with that but every m52tu and m54 i've seen looks like someone **** down the oil cap, on the older motors you'd get clean ones and dirty ones showing you that oil was to blame, as you could find decent looking engines with the same miles, the bosses kid's 2000 323ci is the cleanest later engine i've seen at 100k miles (just did the valve cover gasket) and it still looks like ass, we've been mobil oneing it for about the last 20k every 5-6k miles. when the pcv dies on the later units the engine runs like **** due to the huge vacuum leak or it's sucking oil so theres not much ignoring that


Seeing the sludge pictures that have been posted.......All I can think of is cheap crap no name multigrade oil........ Missed services (like a few!), non functional PCV system (more likely) or overheating conditions (pics in original link-baked on black crap).

[rob101]

Bmw recommends lifetime trans flush IS carried out every 100,000 km of 'normal' driving, but most owners don't want to fork out for the flushing costs.
oh okay, I didn't know it was bmw's recommendation. On another board a had a huge shitfight about it with some jerk with an e46. From my perspective it would make sense to do that, but as you said there are alot of people who prefer to live in denial.