I've been thinking

[rob101]

My 525i is about due for an overhaul and i am thinking hey, perhaps after i pull the head etc. i should put a megasquirt on it and run LPG injectors (run lpg instead of petrol/gasoline/benzene) and run a non-intercoolered super from VF engineering like jon did.

now I know you probably think I am nuts, but lpg is over 100 octane and does cool the manifold when it goes in could be an interesting project also since you are running LPG i have it on good authority that insurance wouldn't class the supercharger as a performance modification.

Would be looking for modest power gains, looking at previous threads Jon said he ran 7 or so PSI unintercooled I would be very interested to see what kind of power he got from that. i'd like to have 250ish hp at the crank so obviously i am not going nuts here.

[Blitzkrieg Bob]

wanna nother beer?

[rob101]

depends what kind of beer it is. still..... the more I think about the idea the more i like it :p I am waiting for more cons to appear. because i can only think of pros atm.

[Blitzkrieg Bob]

I'm considering a french fry oil burning car.

[rob101]

MM i love pilseners nice, well the other week i considered a diesel. thing is in this country diesel costs the same as 98 octane, so its not really that great and you'd have to get one out of UK and that would be a major PITA.
LPG is plentiful in the cities in australia all the taxis run on it.

[indierthanthou]

actually, i was going to do that when i sold my audi, get an old diesel ford f350 and put in a greasecar.com kit. i actually went to a few restaurants in town and got the ok to take their grease...then i got too lazy to do all the work so i bought an e34...hows that for ironic

[The Bigfella]

Mate - don't be a pioneer - its very expensive to find out all the things that just don't quite work right

[Morgenster]

My 525i is about due for an overhaul and i am thinking hey, perhaps after i pull the head etc. i should put a megasquirt on it and run LPG injectors (run lpg instead of petrol/gasoline/benzene) and run a non-intercoolered super from VF engineering like jon did.

now I know you probably think I am nuts, but lpg is over 100 octane and does cool the manifold when it goes in could be an interesting project also since you are running LPG i have it on good authority that insurance wouldn't class the supercharger as a performance modification.

Would be looking for modest power gains, looking at previous threads Jon said he ran 7 or so PSI unintercooled I would be very interested to see what kind of power he got from that. i'd like to have 250ish hp at the crank so obviously i am not going nuts here.

I think the cooling effect from LPG will only be there when working with liquid injection systems as pioneered by Vialle. Problem is that these systems have to be custom made to fit your car and I don't know how well they get along with megasquirt systems. If you can get the megasquirt system to operate the injectors I think the setup would be kickass good. It'll increase compression considerably too because of the forced induction and delayed gasexpansion of the LPG in the cylinder. The system has been found to increase compression without supercharging in NA cars simply because the LPG is injected liquid, improving torque over gasoline operation. Combine this with the right ignition setup and you have a strong and very ecological car.

[Hector]

then why not try running your car on water? Basically, you'd separate the hydrogen and oxygen by electrolysis, and pump the hydrogen in the combustion chamber. ...and boom! You are good to go... Burns cleaner but you would have to take certain safety measures...

I think BMW among others have a prototype running somewhere.

[indierthanthou]

if you pump the oxygen into the combustion chamber with the hydrogen after separating it, you wouldnt need to worry about air filtration, and it would be entirely self contained. the exhaust is steam, if you could somehow condense it and get it back into the water tank, you could effectively have near-perpetual energy. my god i am a genius. DONT EVEN THINK ABOUT IT GUYS, im patenting this one

[Jon K]

Rob

Don't pioneer ****, it sucks :)

Jk.

I am not sure how MS runs with LPG. I never investigated it. However, you could convert the vehicle to flex fuel - seems to be cheaper here, dunno about there. E85 is what I speak of.

[pundit]

... DONT EVEN THINK ABOUT IT GUYS, im patenting this one
Ahhh sorry... too late!! :D

[pundit]

I've been thinking...
Now haven't you been warned about what kind of trouble thinking can get you in?
I suggest you have a nice cup of tea, a Bex and good lie down and in the morning it will be all better! :p

[indierthanthou]

ill steal your face!

[mattyb]

anything you do to a car that is not factory standard spec is an addition or modification whether it increaswes pertformance or not it is all treated the same, so just be careful on that one when talking to the insurance folks. i dont know much about the other styuff but i do know that maybe Fukem 5 can help you as he has been about lately. I remember reading his thesis whilst at the Prague school of perfrormace arts and engineering and he really knows his stuff, so maybe he will show up like ****ing santa and the arshole easter bunny.

[fukem5]

yesh, absholutley right my fren. It was me , Fukem5, who did patent thish fing. I am finking of vis while licking my nanas toes, which is a tradition in my country on the 33 tuesday of every other year. we call this Give it to yor nana day.

[fukem5]

Yesh, ello my fren. i am knowing evrything as invented this stuf and test drove it for bently and bmw at the nurnburg ring. thats ok my mutha is fine but i do not like the was yous talk over me my fren maybe you can make an appoint ment wif my personal secreatary to be in my presence when i cum back from ferrari testing so you can hear me talk to you about this fings youse want do you sic car mate. Shullammoot my fren

[pundit]

Hey son... stop squeezing your claybar! :p

[rob101]

what the hell is flex fuel? yeah as stated LPG is everywhere here. whereas water is scarce :p

edit: just realised what that e85 doesn't stand for the bmw model but the ethanol blend. yeah ethanol is ****. I don't really think too highly of it as a fuel.

[rob101]

Anyway its just an idea at this stage for those who don't know our government gives a $2000 rebate when you install an LPG system aftermarket. I think the problem is not so much being a pioneer just that the LPG injection systems (as opposed to the mixer ring which is more like a carburretor) are fairly new and there isn't alot of info about them in the public domain.

[mattyb]

funny that, my mate was here yesterday and he tried the ethanol 10% mix, said it was minus 20% the power and not smooth driving.

[Zeuk in Oz]

Rob, in my experience, thinking only leads to work, spending of money or revolution.

My humble opinion is that you should embrace diesel technology instead of LPG - perhaps not in your current 5 series, but with all the nice diesel bimmers now being sold, in the near future.

Even though diesel is the same price as 98 octane in this country, its driveability and efficiency make it my preferred fuel, without exception.

Given that BMW first introduced its diesels in the X5 in this country about 6 years ago (guess) unless you fancy an X5 you might consider an engine swap into a 5 series if the electronics, gearbox etc allow.

Alternatively consider importing a 530d E39 into the country from the UK and be envied by me for ever.

Diesels should only ever be mated to an auto gearbox though ! ;)

At the risk of being burned at the stake, the E 270 CDI in W210 shape was a good bit of gear and have been around for long enough to find a decently priced one. Nothing like a 5 series though.

[Alexlind123]

funny that, my mate was here yesterday and he tried the ethanol 10% mix, said it was minus 20% the power and not smooth driving.

Thats what we have in every gas station around my area during the winter. :(

[rob101]

Rob, in my experience, thinking only leads to work, spending of money or revolution.

My humble opinion is that you should embrace diesel technology instead of LPG - perhaps not in your current 5 series, but with all the nice diesel bimmers now being sold, in the near future.

Even though diesel is the same price as 98 octane in this country, its driveability and efficiency make it my preferred fuel, without exception.

Given that BMW first introduced its diesels in the X5 in this country about 6 years ago (guess) unless you fancy an X5 you might consider an engine swap into a 5 series if the electronics, gearbox etc allow.

Alternatively consider importing a 530d E39 into the country from the UK and be envied by me for ever.

Diesels should only ever be mated to an auto gearbox though ! ;)

At the risk of being burned at the stake, the E 270 CDI in W210 shape was a good bit of gear and have been around for long enough to find a decently priced one. Nothing like a 5 series though.
believe me i have nothing against the current common rail diesels, unfortunately they won't be in my price range for a while. I drove a new rodeo 3 or so litre turbo diesel. surprisingly quiet, especially after driving diesel hiluxes from the early 2000s. and plenty of torque redline was a bit low 4200 rpm?
I think it could be a good idea, I am still struggling with working out all the flaming hoops you would need to negotiate when installing the LPG system. and the knowledge that there will be a 2 month wait at most places doesn't encourage me.
but yeah the main thing i'd like to know was how did jon K find the supercharger before running the intercooler. is it worth trying and how much can i expect to spend to get the kit i think online it was 4500 USD. I was also wondering whether Jon was running stock compression ratio or not.

[mattyb]

do you use it? and if so what are your thoughts?

[ajt3nc]

How much more would you spend on an lpg conversion?
Divide that by the mileage increase factoring in the cost.

Then price a 540 conversion.

[rob101]

How much more would you spend on an lpg conversion?
Divide that by the mileage increase factoring in the cost.

Then price a 540 conversion.
we don't live in the land of plenty. 540i conversion would cost me an absolute ******** amount for a manual. 540i6 M-sports are the only ones in the country and they cost as much as an M5
now tell me that a 525i on LPG will have the greater running costs than an m5 or a 540i. I am kind of thinking of breaking my own rule about modifying here i've always been of the opinion that its not cost effective and one is better off getting a higher specced car.
I'd just do it because I wanna. at least i wouldn't be putting a supra engine in it!

[fin]

As I remember from guys trying to run LPG in the 1970/1980's - rings and valves wore out quickly as LPG has miniscule lubricating properties.

So I would look into whether our more modern engines will run without the lubricating properties of gasoline (I know it's not much, but LPG is what, zero?)

I would think a call to ring/valve manufacturers would answer those questions. Buses and forklifts run on LPG, check out those motors for clues too.

Honda is suppose to be bringing on line a car that will use NG from your home. You need to buy a "pump" to take the fuel from your house line (approx. 1/2 PSI) and compress it into your car's tank.

Give it a shot! The Gov't is ponying up money for you to spend on your car. How can you turn that down?

Cheers,

Fin