M60 intake ideas

[Boone.Msi]

heres a summary of what ive been talking about, if its too chopped up you can refer to the original threadhttp://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=690267

The High Flow Cold Air Intake System develops horsepower and torque gains for faster acceleration and improved throttle response. The performance intake systems have been designed to provide improved intake airflow at the lowest possible temperatures, for greater engine efficiency and resulting power gains. When combined with Stage 2 Performance Engine Software, power is increased by as much as 20 horsepower and 20 LB/ft torque.

The High Flow Cold Air Intake Systems replace the factory air box with a large cylindrical K&N filter and 4 inch diameter mandrel-bent aluminum intake pipe. The filter is relocated to a separate compartment behind the front bumper and below the headlights in order to insulate it from engine compartment heat and maximize exposure to cooler outside air. Stage 2 Performance Engine Software is required which optimizes the fuel mixture and ignition timing for maximum power gains. If you already have Dinan Software in your car, it will be upgraded at no charge when you purchase the High Flow Cold Air Intake System

STOCK/DINAN
(image isnt working)
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o226/disgustipated13/Cold-Air-Intake.jpg

Im thinkin about goin down the local Muffler shop and having them bend a 3" aluminum pipe for me that is a somewhat replica of the dinan; then putting a K&N Cone filter from a mustang on the end of that...

Also, heres another idea, when you look at your front bumper, on the drivers side you have a intake duct for your alternator. On the passenger side you have another clip in piece, the same size as the intake duct that is solid. Maybe you could order another intake duct for the alternator and place it on the passenger side, make a small abs/pvc cylinder to go arond the intake filter, atach it the back of the duct and you basicly have a ram-air intake setup.

If your horribly worried about water getting in, get sometype of screen and glue it onto the back of the intake duct.

I would take a picture of what im talking about, but unfortunately my duct got destroyed by a squirrel.

What do you guys think about that idea?

[RallyD]

its not worth it unless you like to waste money.
i cant see much of a noticeable gain, other than noise.

[Boone.Msi]

probably no gain by itself, but with other mods i believe you would get some extra power.

[Johntee540]

Actually - I have read that the CAI on the m60 engine actually loses power in the midband. The airbox on the 540 is actually more efficient than the CAI advertised out there - yes even better than Dinan. Additionally - the Oil from the KN Filters will foul the MAF causing damage to it and create bad readings and inputs to the ECU.

This is my opinion. I would do an EAT chip and exhaust - there are negligible perf gains there. -JT

[Boone.Msi]

^ ive heard that a hundred times, but i just cant make myself believe it. Have you ever completely taken out the airbox? its hard to believe how air gets in the box in the first place.

I just dont see how changing from a box with a small inlet to a straight tube with a larger inlet and access to more air(let alone colder air) could cause less power. Dosent an aftermarket chips(ex. EAT, Dinan) programed to use more air? So if you have more air= more power?

I dunno... hard to believe for me

[BillionPa]

i have completely taken out the air box, and its design is extremely good. the only thing i can see to make it better is to put a ram air CAI into the bottom of the box, and maintain the stock filter setup.

the efficiency has to do with intake pulse damping or something

the K&N oil does play with the MAF, i have a K&N filter with recharge kit with only 10K miles on it.... anyone want?

[Robin-535im]

This may be different on the v8's so YMMV... Also not trying to talk you out of the experiment as you never really know until you try it.

On the 535 there is a venturi that collects cold air directly from behind the headlight area - "ram" air as some call it.

It empties into a large box with a large filter. My fluid dynamics is a bit rusty, but I believe this does two things: 1) The air accelerates in the venturi, resulting in more flow than you would get with a straight tube of the same diameter. 2) the big box acts as a capacitance in the air-domain, keeping the supply of air to the throttle relatively consistent even as the load, throttle, speed, etc., change. In contrast, a long tube of air is more of an inertia element, which is not as forgiving to changing demands.

Chances are good that the engineers at BMW tuned the intake to be the optimal air delivery system for the stock engine, or even an engine with a chip (I don't believe a chip increases the air demand, just pushes the timing up to extract power closer to the detonation limit). And by optimal, I mean that anything else will by definition deliver less power. There are pretty sophisticated models + testing they can do to tune it exactly to give the best power range over all expected operating points.

Unless the head has been opened up and/or the exhaust has been changed, I don't imagine there could be a better setup than the stock. I had a tube and a K&N on my 535, and while it sounded meaner, it didn't have the consistent power the stock filter did.

BUT - it's cheap enough to try new stuff out, and that's the fun of having a car that's as much hobby as transportation. Might consider getting a G-tech to measure rolling HP before and after... that way if it DOES increase power, you can tell all the naysayers to pound sand! :)

[Boom n Zoom]

I understand what you are saying Boone, it goes against all 'resonability' that the standard Airbox would flow and supply air at a better rate that a Pod Filter, even if it is more isolated from the Engine bay as the Dinan setup seems to be.

If you have a look at the inlet for the standard airbox it is totally isolated from the engine bay due to the panel that you need to remove with the airbox (it fits between the inner guard and the radiator) it allows the snout of the intake to collect from behind the headlight assembly, very nice well though out system, seems like a direct and logical intake point as it is above most of the deepest water you would want to drive through and with the headlights in front, Leaves, plastic bags, birds, small children and low flying aircraft cannot be directly ingested.

Robin's two points are correct about the 'Fluid Dynamics' I am going through this as we speak with my '93 888 Ducati. It's Fuel Injected and has 444cc swept volume cylinders (x2) the standard airbox does not have the capacitance to optimise the torque and horsepower at the lower end of the rev range (Don't get me wrong here it has great bottom end stonk, I just feel it could be better) The first improvement is to cut the top out of the standard airbox on these, this really allows it to breath much better (sounds really nice when you open the taps too) but it looses all the capacitance as it is not a closed system, thereby it reduces the bottom end torque and subsiquent horsepower, the tradeoff is in the breathing at higher than 5000 rpm it makes up for the lack of bottom end.

So in the space available (not much) I am trying to utilize (read adapting) a later model airbox and intake runners to optimize cylinder filling at low rpm to boost torque and horspower, the problem is also of making sure that it still breaths properly in the high rpm band once it 'comes on the cam'.

Sorry don't mean to hijack the thread, just through it was relevant.


Cheers!

BnZ

[winfred]

a cheep thing to do is just remove the pipe that the airbox attaches to, the hole in the end is much smaller then the rest of the intake tract, the airbox will still suck fenderwell/bumper air, the difference between the snorkel size and the rest of the system is almost like a golf ball vs a tennis ball. you also are raising the intake a couple inches reducing the m60s tendency to suck water, i've changed more m60s due to sucking water and hammering the rods out the side of the block then anythng else

[Johntee540]

Couple of thoughts there.

The stock airbox for the 540 is actually better engineered that these CAI.

The Area of filtration on the Stock filter is much greater than any KN Cone Oiled Filter. It you have a greater area for Air to enter the system at the filter - then do you really need to have a larger hole for air to flow into the box?

The Oil from the Stock filter (Oh - wait I forgot there is none) wont foul the MAF and screw up the inputs the ECU needs to process correctly.

The KN Filters allow more particulate into your engine - that is how they achieve any results they claim. There are websites on the net dedicated to the damage these filters can do. So if you are allowing more particulate through a smaller filter on the end of a restricted tube - are you really increasing the airflow? or just compensating for removing the Stock box.

Last Thought - I would love to see your results of doing this. It sounds like you are into it - so hey if you are going to do it - lets document the results. If you have heard it 100 times and dont believe it here is what I propose.

Go do a dyno pull - tomorrow - bone stock and save the results. Then add your CAI or anyone else's - heck Have Steve Dinan sign one and send it over install it and then go back and do a dyno pull. Save the results. and then Please post them here so we can compare the two all know once and for all. I for one would love to be corrected - AND - I will publically state my ignorance on this subject moving forward. Thoughts? - JT

[Jon K]

a cheep thing to do is just remove the pipe that the airbox attaches to, the hole in the end is much smaller then the rest of the intake tract, the airbox will still suck fenderwell/bumper air, the difference between the snorkel size and the rest of the system is almost like a golf ball vs a tennis ball. you also are raising the intake a couple inches reducing the m60s tendency to suck water, i've changed more m60s due to sucking water and hammering the rods out the side of the block then anythng else


Rods thru the block is to let them breathe better winfred! We call it venting the block around these parts!

[winfred]

they almost always chunk #7 or 8 up through the valley pan dumping the coolant into the crankcase, had a couple vent the oil pan too


Rods thru the block is to let them breathe better winfred! We call it venting the block around these parts!

[Jon K]

Its nice when you have an "access hole" to the crank shaft :)

[TC535i]

I think I'm pulling the intake off my 540i. Sounds awesome, but I think I want to go back to the stock box, maybe with a modded inlet.

[RallyD]

**** i got about 20hp from removing mine during a routine service and repairing it.
the tube between airbox and throttle was all cracked in between the ribs and was allowing unmetered air to enter the engine. I just figured my car was old but now it drives fantastic.

[winfred]

heres the one from a e38
http://members.cox.net/kitlou/m60-intake-1.jpg
http://members.cox.net/kitlou/m60-intake-2.jpg
the earlyer cars are not much different, take that ****er off and let it suck from the fender well

[brosher]

beware of puddles!

[Boone.Msi]

Damn thats a huge difference, i may just mod the inlet and see what happens...


Although my idea through the bumper air duct would be a quite efficient mod for that remote turbo Antrieb is working on;)

[TC535i]

Wait, so what do I do to my 540i airbox when I put it back in??