OT: but seeking advice for my future career plan (kinda long)

[markus]

well guys im here looking for some advice. Im currently 20, got laid off from my past 3 jobs and am looking for another one as we speak. Luckily I still live home with my parents (not too proud to say that but i guess im not the only one) so I dont have to worry about paying rent every month. My bills every month are just my student loans.

Anyway, I finally made the decision to get my ass back to school this fall.

Now let me back up here for a moment. I graduated high school in 2004, went to UTI in Exton, PA and got myself a degree in automotive technology. I worked as a jeep and chrysler technician for almost a year and quit this past october. I realized that working on cars is something I DONT enjoy doing everyday becuase to me its more of a hobby and american cars are so poorly designed any basic task is a nightmare. not to mention the only car i care about working on is my E34. Once I quit there I got a job as a laborer at an aluminum facotry. Everythig was going alright till one day the boss calls me in and says "ok we dont have enough work so we dont need you anymore". Went a month jobless and got a job at UPS for holiday help. Of course that ran out december 23rd so I went back jobless. Joined a temp agency which finds jobs for you. Well they found me a job in january and in the beginning of february the same **** happens. So im jobless again. Im trying to avoid going back to warehouse work because the people you work with are morons, and unless you are in the union you can be disposed of at any time. **** that. so right now im looking for something permamnent.

well, I was looking into my career choices these past few weeks and narrowed it down to either something computer related or physical therapy/chiropratic. I like the fact that these jobs offer real pay and theres actually a future with these jobs. Yes I know its almost in the total opposite direction but one thing I like is working hands on and helping people. Of course I need schooling for these jobs and I have narrowed it down to 2 choices. Community college since the tuition and credits are very cheap and after 2 years I can transfer to another school to finish. My other choice is joining the Navy.

Now I was toying with the idea of joining the military after high school but felt like it was something I was never ready for. My buddy is scheduled to leave for basic training this august. I went into the navy office yesterday with him because he wanted to ******** around with his recruiters and one started talking to me. He first started asking me if i worked, and if i wanted to go back to school, where I lived, how my grades were, if i have any medical disabilities, if i can pass a drug screening and how my criminal record was, i have no problems with any. I told him I plan on going back to school and I want to become a chiroprator. He explained to me that the navy can pay for all my schooling and will provide the experinece i need to become sucessful once i get out and it wouldnt cost me anything. So of course this made it popular. I took the pre-ASVAB test which you are required to take in order to qualify for joining the navy. I passed no problem and actually scored very high. I plan on calling monday and asking him wehn i can take the ASVAB test since im not obligated to join anyway if I take it or not. The navy also has job counselors that help you decide which job would be best for you.

Now what would you do? Would you look into community college or wait and see what happens with the ASVAB test? also if anyone in here has previous navy experience id like to hear what you have to say.

thanks for reading this. any help would be appreciated.

[RobPatt]

.... well let me tell you upfront that I'm a bit biased... I'm an active duty Air Force Officer with 17 years of service. 14 of those years was enlisted.

I'm proud of the enlisted force, all of them to include the Navy. But... if you're going to go into the military, plan on getting a commission and becoming an officer. Now it's a hell of a lot easier to be an officer from the start...then to be enlisted then cut over to the officer corps.

W/o your 4 year degree you can't get a commission. Sea duty isn't for me, nor is the mentality folks get when they're couped up on a boat for extended time with 100s, or 1000s of other sailors.

I'm a computer/communications guy. I work and manage people and IT stuff.

Technology is always advancing and if you go the computer route you should be prepared to always be learning the next new thing, mastering it... it sounds cool now, being on the bleeding edge... but for me after 10 or 12 years I got tired of always chasing the newest technology. Implementing that technology w/out good training, a good budget, and senior folks who think good IT support just magically happens.

On the other hand, there are advances in biology (talking about your medical route now...), etc, but probably at a slower pace due to regulation, long research times and studies...

Recommend you talk to both IT folks... Navy enslited.... and some docs to see and get their voices of experience. Thing about the military is until you've got some seniority you don't have much say in what you do or where you go.....

Good luck... hope this has helped even a little.
Cheers,
Rob sends.....

[bsell]

As a 16-year enlisted Air Force guy who's career field involves warehouse work (no offense taken!;) ), I would like to respond to your request and maybe give you a little different view than the one above.

You seem to be at a crossroads in your life. I am a firm believer that things happen for a reason. It seems like you are being very honest with yourself and I fully back your decision to keep working on cars as your hobby. It took me five years to figure that one out (former Porsche, Audi, Saab, Subaru mechanic) so kudos to you for being so bright. :D

I see that your buddy helped break the ice with a military recruiter. That is a good first step, but unless you have some family obligation to join a specific branch of service, why not shop them as perspective employers? Go to the branches you could voluntarily serve in and see what they can offer you regarding signing bonuses, 'job' preference (guaranteed in writing), and rank credit for your degree. I too have an AAS in Auto Tech degree which gave me E-3 (Airman First Class) from the get go, just like the six-year enlistees. It is my understanding that the Army offers Warrant Officer positions to fly helos and light planes (Lear Jet, Cessna, etc.) for folks with some school under their belts but do not have four year degrees. I believe the Marines may have a similar program. I do not know if that interests you but I bring it up to make the case that there is a 'job' in the military that meets almost everyone's personal and career interests. The key is finding the 'job' you want and getting a guarantee in writing before signing on the dotted line.

As the previous poster knows, there is a distinct difference in the daily life of an enlisted man and an officer. Unfortunately, it may be difficult to relate the difference in a meaningful way to you. The best way I can put it is; an enlisted man is very task oriented (hands-on), an officer leads a shop, branch, or region of enlisted down a path to reach a goal. Granted, the senior enlisted folks make the officer's vision happen by leading their teams down the chosen path but if you want to be the one leading the big show, you have to be an officer. If you would rather spend 10 or so years perfecting your craft, and then spend the next 10 or so years teaching/mentoring others in the same craft, then enlisted is the way to go.

That being said, there is much more to raising your right hand and joining the 'club'. You can be sure that many a folk has joined the military just for the money/schooling or a steady job, but most do it as a way to give back to their country. Corny as it may sound, I have met and been inspired by countless such devoted individuals. So think about the choices you are making, make your choice, and commit yourself to succeeding in your chosen profession whatever it may be.

Brian

[guinness]

I guess it's time for the Marines to spout off. You need to talk to all the Branches before you make your decision and don’t overlook the Coast Guard as they have some excellent opportunities. They all offer good things but the good is often outweighed by the bad. I guess what I'm saying is that you need to consider what you want to get out of your time in the Military. I just retired after 20 years as a Marine and I loved it, however during that time I was often deployed away from home. I have spent 6 years with the Navy both deployed on ships and as an instructor assigned to a Navy school. Having said that I would never join the Navy as an Enlisted Man!
Speaking strictly from my own (admittedly biased) observations junior enlisted in the Navy are treated very badly, they are expected to keep their mouths shut and do what they are told until they make Chief. The officers and Chiefs on the other hand are treated like gods. I remember how hard it always was to break our Officers back to reality after spending time on a ship.
I spent 3 years as a Marine Recruiter so I would like to also remind you that the Navy Recruiter that you are speaking with will tell you all the good to get you to enlist but not the bad unless you ask so do your research and ask the right questions.
At the end of the day just remember that you should never join the Military for the money, you do these jobs because you love them, I was told many years ago by an old Gunnery Sergeant that the day it becomes a job and not the way you want to live your life then get out because it’s not worth it.

[RallyD]

I'm not anti-military, but think it out thoroughly before you take the plunge. If possible talk to other young people enlisted within the past 5-10 years. I thought about it for myself, but didn't want to have to answer to someone else for the next decade or two. I make my own decisions.
At 20yrs old I finished my AAS in Automotive Engineering(2000) and I had a few choices. Go to work right away as an entry level technician, or go back to school. I decided that working on cars was a hobby that I enjoyed and anytime I took a hobby and made work out of it I lost interest. I decided to get an education degree and become a Technology Teacher. It wasn't all that difficult, the coursework was very interesting. Right now I teach 7-9th grade Woodworking, Computers, and Basic Electronics. Within the next 5 years I will be the head Automotive Instructor w/ a 2500 sq/ft shop at my disposal. Ready for the best part, I only work 182 days a year, and I'm out of work at 3pm so there is plenty of time for side jobs or my own tinkering. Plus, any extra education such as a Masters Degree (required after 5 years of teaching in NY) or other graduate level credits, yields a salary increase.
Teaching is not for everybody, and neither is the military. You need to think about what will be a career path that you can be satisfied with. Will you be happy to get up and go to work each day? Will you get a feeling of satisfaction at the end of the day? Ask yourself these questions before you decide.
Good Luck with whatever you choose to do.

[bsell]

[QUOTE=RallyD] I decided to get an education degree and become a Technology Teacher. It wasn't all that difficult, the coursework was very interesting. Right now I teach 7-9th grade Woodworking, Computers, and Basic Electronics. Within the next 5 years I will be the head Automotive Instructor w/ a 2500 sq/ft shop at my disposal. Ready for the best part, I only work 182 days a year, and I'm out of work at 3pm so there is plenty of time for side jobs or my own tinkering. Plus, any extra education such as a Masters Degree (required after 5 years of teaching in NY) or other graduate level credits, yields a salary increase.
QUOTE]
See now you got me thinking about my 'retirement job'. Teaching 'shop' could be a great way to spend the last 20 or so years of my working life. Now where is a four year degree when you need one?;)

Brian

[ThoreauHD]

All great advice from the group here. I am not in the military, but most of my family have been at one time or another. I can tell you from spending time on bases that they are correct about the bottom rung enlisted servicemen. You don't want to go there if you can at all help it. Do what ever you have to do to reach officer or above(if you're a MD, etc.). That takes four years of school or an equivalent.

And yes, shop around. If coming in like that isn't an option, you can become a chiropractor- which takes 2 years of college and 2 years of chiro school. It's pretty easy to do compared to medical or dental. The computer bit is another one of those things you have to love and not half-ass it or you will be the equivalent of an enlisted service man in the corporate world. And while being underwater for 3 months and getting paid squat sucks, getting ridden by everyone in the free world with no benefits getting paid squat is worse- unless you love it.

If you love a thing you excel at it. No getting around it. You can be a complete dimwitted retard, but if you keep pounding that nut like only a monkey in love can- then you will achieve results aka get paid more.

So of those options, the military can either be a stepping stone or a full on hit as a career- but don't go in between with enlisted. The chiropractor avenue doesn't require you to like it if you have physical dexterity. But you have to have physical dexterity and control even if you get old- which may not be so good.

There is another avenue called Doctor of Osteopathy. A D.O., as it were. That is a chiropractor that actually knows what he's doing. It mimics an MD degree but doesn't require as high of grades. But the money is double or triple that of a chiropractor. If you really love working with folks posture, you should go for the brass ring. And a D.O. is that in the chiro world. It takes 2 years of college and 4 years of medical school, rather doctor of osteopathy school. And a 2 year residency after that. It's hard, but I've seen sheer will get people through it where they didn't have the faculties to divide in their head in the beginning.

So, those are some on topic options. Find the thing that you would do for free every hour of the day and love it, and that's what you should do. Apologies if my tone is a bit abrupt. I mean no whatever it is I said that offends.

Oh, and btw. 30 is the new 20. So living at home until you're 26 isn't a big deal. My family are all MD's and they were at home until they were damn near 30 in some instances. It's not a stigma- and in every other part of the world it's expected. But America hasn't gotten the multi-generation family thing down yet. Grandpa's rotting in a nursing home, and lil Stephie is livin with 4 guys in a 2 bedroom apartment. Mom has diabetes, man I hope she can get her insulin. I guess I'll know if she doesn't call in 3 days. That kinda thing. You'll be out of the house soon enough- no use rushing spending money on rent when you are trying to walk, figuratively speaking. Unless your parents are blue collar- then maybe they don't have a clue and will kick you out. Anyhow..

It's ok. Just focus on your future and your life and don't let go no matter what. Tschus.

[Herb]

Army's turn to chime in: Just understand what you are getting into, no-matter what branch or job title in said branch of service, you will get deployed at some point, at least till The WOT (war on terrorism) is over.
That being said, I'm an x-ray tech. Now that I am out of the Reg. Army I work two days a week, and do school the rest. GI bill is great supplimentary income and my Reserve unit pays 100% tuition on top of the GI bill. I support a family of three like this.

If you stay civilian, allied health is the way to go (xray, or tech, lab tech, ect.), the good thing about these jobs is that they pay well for only about 2-3 years of college, and if you decide to do something else you don't get paid minimum wage - your part time job would pay the same as your friends full+overtime job.

[Zeuk in Oz]

As a father of 4 teenage sons, the oldest of whom turns 20 in May, I couldn't let this thread pass without adding my 2 cents worth.

I have no knowledge of the armed forces in any country, let alone yours, so I am not going to comment specifically. Suffice however to say that if you appear to be getting something for nothing ie an education, there is always a price to pay at the end. This might be risk, lower pay, years of servitude etc. Nothing wrong with any of that, as long as you are aware.

The most important advice I could give you is don't chase money ! Choose a career path that appeals to you. You have now had 2-3 years of opportunity to ruminate on what you want so hopefully you have some idea. In my experience those who choose to chase money rarely find it and are often miserable. On the other hand those who enjoy what they do and are good at it often end up quite well off, often almost by accident.

If not, or even if you are not sure, take some time off and travel. Presuming that you are in the US, may I respectfully suggest you spend some time in some countries elsewhere in the world and choose somewhere where English is not an official language. In other words you need to get out of your comfort zone and experience some different versions of life. This, I believe will help you come to terms with who you are and where you would like to go.

In November I did exactly this to my oldest whos is 19 and who had a 3.5 month break from Uni. I sent him to Europe where he backpacked through Sweden, Iceland, Denmark, Germany, France and the UK. He was on his own, speaks only English and had an absolute ball - he is due back in 3 days time.

He is not looking for direction, but certainly needed to be pushed out of his comfort zone. He will now appreciate our country (Australia) much more than before he went.

At the risk of being flamed by some of you, I would argue that the insular nature of growing up in the States makes this sort of experience even more worthwhile.

When you come back you will be in a much better position to make a correct choice on your career path.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

[Jon K]

well guys im here looking for some advice. Im currently 20, got laid off from my past 3 jobs and am looking for another one as we speak. Luckily I still live home with my parents (not too proud to say that but i guess im not the only one) so I dont have to worry about paying rent every month. My bills every month are just my student loans.

Anyway, I finally made the decision to get my ass back to school this fall.

Now let me back up here for a moment. I graduated high school in 2004, went to UTI in Exton, PA and got myself a degree in automotive technology. I worked as a jeep and chrysler technician for almost a year and quit this past october. I realized that working on cars is something I DONT enjoy doing everyday becuase to me its more of a hobby and american cars are so poorly designed any basic task is a nightmare. not to mention the only car i care about working on is my E34. Once I quit there I got a job as a laborer at an aluminum facotry. Everythig was going alright till one day the boss calls me in and says "ok we dont have enough work so we dont need you anymore". Went a month jobless and got a job at UPS for holiday help. Of course that ran out december 23rd so I went back jobless. Joined a temp agency which finds jobs for you. Well they found me a job in january and in the beginning of february the same **** happens. So im jobless again. Im trying to avoid going back to warehouse work because the people you work with are morons, and unless you are in the union you can be disposed of at any time. **** that. so right now im looking for something permamnent.

well, I was looking into my career choices these past few weeks and narrowed it down to either something computer related or physical therapy/chiropratic. I like the fact that these jobs offer real pay and theres actually a future with these jobs. Yes I know its almost in the total opposite direction but one thing I like is working hands on and helping people. Of course I need schooling for these jobs and I have narrowed it down to 2 choices. Community college since the tuition and credits are very cheap and after 2 years I can transfer to another school to finish. My other choice is joining the Navy.

Now I was toying with the idea of joining the military after high school but felt like it was something I was never ready for. My buddy is scheduled to leave for basic training this august. I went into the navy office yesterday with him because he wanted to ******** around with his recruiters and one started talking to me. He first started asking me if i worked, and if i wanted to go back to school, where I lived, how my grades were, if i have any medical disabilities, if i can pass a drug screening and how my criminal record was, i have no problems with any. I told him I plan on going back to school and I want to become a chiroprator. He explained to me that the navy can pay for all my schooling and will provide the experinece i need to become sucessful once i get out and it wouldnt cost me anything. So of course this made it popular. I took the pre-ASVAB test which you are required to take in order to qualify for joining the navy. I passed no problem and actually scored very high. I plan on calling monday and asking him wehn i can take the ASVAB test since im not obligated to join anyway if I take it or not. The navy also has job counselors that help you decide which job would be best for you.

Now what would you do? Would you look into community college or wait and see what happens with the ASVAB test? also if anyone in here has previous navy experience id like to hear what you have to say.

thanks for reading this. any help would be appreciated.


Marcus -

I have yet to read replies here yet, but I am going to write one and then go back to see what people have said.

STOP LOOKING FOR A CAREER AT 20 YEARS OLD! Its one thing to decide on a major and point yourself in that direction, but it's another to assume specific roles in the workforce when you should be a sophomore/junior in college! I am 22, a graduating senior in 3 months (jesus thats scary) and have yet to send out applications and resumes. I am graduating with a BS in Management of Information Systems, so the jobs are there, but its still an "unknown". Bro you're asking a LOT of yourself. I admire your work ethic - I too have worked for dealerships and know how that sucks. But really man, maybe get back in school, feel it out again, and decide from there. You don't want to pick a job because "the pay is real good." High value jobs do not come with low levels of commitment - an education is an investment, you will return your investment (usually) but not immediately, and to become a chiropractor means heavy monetary investment, as you know! The army reserves or navy can help you if you choose to go that route. I know CerealKilla on here is in the reserves which is helping out with school I am sure, but I can tell you that boy is up at 4 - 5 AM running with his division in Lehigh Valley (I am in PA also, regards!) more than several times a week - this past weekend he was away (I think he was in NY) for training, and man it never seems to end! Granted once he's done he's got good things coming, but its a long time off and truly a lot of work - that may be for you, it may not be.

Do yourself a favor and just go watch TV or a movie or something and get your mind off it and give it time. You're thinking way too hard and I think it'd be best if you disassociate yourself. Sometimes my girlfriend gets real into the "ahhh i need a specific career" and I tell her the same thing. Good luck with it, and if you want to see some BMWs etc, we're holding a meet in March (Mar. 25) in Bucks County, PA... not far from you.

I think it's important that you isolate yourself from stuff in order to make decisions - I do it every time I change something on the car! You need to assume the role of someone who isn't thinking about it, go on your day, maybe two, maybe a month, and when something hits you that you really want to do, you'll know. A piece of mold looks great when shopping in a **** store - you don't want to pick any field because "they all suck, this sucks less." I've seen WAY too many people drop out of highschool and college because of that mentality. I have had friends pick up Chemistry and Biology majors because they "like the girls in the class." There are tons of guys on here that have experience with the kind of thing you're considering.

You should really talk to CerealKilla and Wyn - I think Wyn was navy or air force, and CK is Army. Hit them up - Kevin (CK) is probably about 20.

Jon

[markus]

well i talked to my girlfriend tonight about this. she suggested just going to community college and going in undecided. this will atleast get the core courses out of the way and help me get credits. makes sense to me. she said dont join the navy just for free schooling. thats true also. well tommorow ill call that temp agency a call and tell them hook me up with another glamorous production line job untill fall. ill just work and save a few dollars up and work on the 540. thanks for the input guys. i might be a little behind in terms of schooling but atleast i know what i like and what i dont like.

[markus]

where at in bucks county? im somewhat familiar with that area since i went to UTI in Exton. My old roomate is a tech at Otto's BMW in West Chester. When I get my income tax refund back im getting all the parts I want to replace on my M60 to make it run like a champ. Hes going to get me a quote and see how he can do. A plus is hes done plenty of M60 intake reseals and valley pan gaskets so im atleast doing this with someone who has done it many times before. Not to mention hes giving my car a free brake fluid change and a coolant flush with BMW coolant for nothing. well besides a case of beer.

[Kalevera]

I agree with everything Jon's saying.

I don't have much to add beyond a few disconnected ideas.

There's a book by a guy named Patrick Coombs (www.goodthink.com) called _Major in Success_. It's a cheesy title but it reflects a lot of what Jon's already said. I met PC a few years ago, and he has a lot of good ideas. Typical motivational speaker stuff. One key point of his is that when don't know what you want, it's best to try new things and see how they go. The other key point is that the best decisions are made when you step out of them. When my mind gets cluttered, I get out on a journey. Usually this manifests as a road trip. These kinds of experiences are GREAT for helping you see things clearly, and great for personal growth. I get on the road, I forget about things, I get back and I know EXACTLY what to do.


What's your goal in life right now? Is it to get an education? Make a lot of money? Something else? It's okay if you don't know what it is, but for most people at this stage, it's a question of how much beer, cash, and women you can own. It's not a bad thing as long as you can admit what you want. And it tends to change over time.

People often confuse education and income. I don't disagree that people who have education often make more money. But you don't NEED an education to make money, you just need to know how to sell your time. Read Thomas Stanley's _The Millionaire Mind_ for more on this.

With respect to joining the armed forces and going back to school... I'm now a few years out from graduating with a piece of paper from a good school. I have about eight friends who went ROTC and are now COs/2nd Lieutenants or whatever you call it. With the exception of one, all are in law school/med school/ or doing some kind of post graduate work (to avoid being dropped into the war). All of my other friends are working on, or have attained, advanced degrees. In visiting and talking with these people over the years since we graduated, the one statement I've heard more than most is, "I wish I did what you're doing," and "I wish I didn't just jump into this." Some are miserable and confused. It's a sad sight to see.

It's astounding to me to see how many people just don't get it. You have to listen to yourself and do what you love. Sometimes it takes a little bit of patience and angling to make an acceptable living out of it.

When I graduated and decided I didn't want a desk job and started wrenching BMWs, many people subtly or explicitly said, "I can't believe you just spent four years and all of that money to become a mechanic." These kinds of people will warp your reality if you let them.

If you want to get some ideas on how to get more satisfaction out of what you do for work, the best advice I can offer is that you read a famous book by Napoleon Hill, _Think & Grow Rich_, which tells you how to turn what you dream about into reality.

[bsell]

[QUOTE=ThoreauHD]Unless your parents are blue collar- then maybe they don't have a clue and will kick you out. Anyhow.. QUOTE]

Come on now, don't hold back.

To the OP:
How about paying rent to your folks while you live in their house? They put the money into a savings account for your use later to buy stuff for your new digs. This teaches you that you really can afford to live 'on your own' while giving you a grace period to hook yourself up monetarily. It worked like a charm for three of us boys and I figure to use it on my kids if they don't go to college (they better!).

Brian

[Gayle]

No one has said much about the chiro thing, so I will comment. I had a long career in the healthcare industry so I understand the deal. Plus every 3rd person in California is a chiropractor and I have been to lots of them and have seen the various models of practice. In fact, I sublet office space a chiropractor one year. I have seen the warts of that profession up close.

Don't go into being a chiropractor unless you are comfortable with a career in sales. You will be self employed and always having to hustle for clients. You have to constantly sell yourself. And there are so many chiropractors that the competition is fierce.

You will constantly face the ethical dilemma of whether to upsell your clients on more services than they need because you need the money. Most chirpractors try to convince their clients that they need regular adjustments and they try to turn their clients into an annuity stream.

Your clients will predominantly be wrinkly cranky old people who may have that old person smell--Yuck--Unless you specialize in something else that is hard on the body. One local chiro has a clientele that is most made up of surfers.

Insurance reimbursement is hell. The only thing worse is trying to get people to pay for it out of pocket.

That is the bad. Here is the good.

The good is that you can help people. Chiropractors have the best success rate for headaches and back aches. Much better than doctors.

And the chicks will love you cause you will have good hands.

In the same way that people say that you don't have to decide now, I say go ahead and decide because no matter what you decide, you will probably end up changing. The days when people have one job or one career all their adult life is gone. Most people have an average of 7 jobs in their adult life.

I am a major advocate of doing something you enjoy. After all, where do you spend the most time? But chasing money is not bad. Life is way easier if you have money. Money = choice = freedom. The best jobs are fun and pay well. The secret to that is having skills that every Tom, Dick, and Harry doesn't have. Rare skills = mo money. Rare skills + sales skill = big money. Good people skills make anything better.

[CharlesAFerg]

I'd buy the 540 if you weren't in PA ;-)

USMC Oorah.
I'm joining after college - Might go reserves next year after I transfer to a four-year college.

I'm also 20, and am currently working on my second year at the local community college to transfer to University of Oregon to finish off at least 2 more years. I'm waiting to get my own place until I transfer- Which will be in the fall.

I currently have a job I think is great and pays well too - Retail sales, I sell electronic stuff, all made in China!