Hartge side skits, interest? (AU)

[Michael999]

Ive just ordered some Hartge skirts http://www.hartge.de/html/e34uk.html
And i thought to myself, i can make a mould from these.
My dad is a boat builder and uses fibre glass and carbon fibre alot, done lots of moulds and for all sorts of things.
I talked to him, and he said these will be quite easy to make.

We worked out that the mould will cost me around $150 to make, then around another $50 per set of skirts. (add $50 for carbon fibre per skirt).
So my question is, does anyone want a set?

[BigKriss]

I would be interested, but how would it be attached to the body of the car and would you leave it unpainted or would you have it painted for extra? How much would it cost then, it is $150 + $50?

[Michael999]

Apparently the original Hartge skirts are simply glued on.
Once i get them i will work out the best way to replicate the skirts so that the inside is the same as out so that attaching is easy.

Hmm i cant paint them unfortunately, ill ring a few shops and check on prices, but i doubt it will be much given the small size and off the car.

The mould can be used over and over, so if there are several interested parties, then the price will be lower.
$50+($150/parts sold)+labour. (labour likely to be just a couple hours, at my award rate of $18.50)
Dad says each set will take a day to make, but thats 90% waiting around time for resin to dry.

Sorry i dont have a more concrete price, but it certainly wont be over $200.
(if there are 4ppl interested, then it will be be $50+40+labour)
Please let me know if your interested :)

[e345spd]

Count me in. CF if it turns out well.

[BigKriss]

thats fine. I'll find a way to mount them and paint them. I don't like the idea of them being glued on, but I want to purchase a set off you.

[steve0suprem0]

i'd be very interested if you can get a good way to attach them. i'd be REALLY interested if you got the bumpers too (rear at least).

btw- bigkriss, your sig... i almost peed i laughed so hard.

[Michael999]

Sounds good guys, ill post progress pics once the skirts arrive and i get started.

[Wes F]

i'd be very interested if you can get a good way to attach them. i'd be REALLY interested if you got the bumpers too (rear at least).

Same here.

[e345spd]

Bumpers would be great too. I want to make sure you wouldn't have any problems shipping to the USA though.

[genphreak]

Sounds good guys, ill post progress pics once the skirts arrive and i get started.Yay! Been looking for a set for a while. I was thinking a set of the latest Falcon could be modded, but these might be just fine... Thanks for making the effort to do this Michael, ways to keep these ol' machines relevant and up to date are few and far between. You can count me in too! :) Nick

[kxmills]

Ive just ordered some Hartge skirts http://www.hartge.de/html/e34uk.html
And i thought to myself, i can make a mould from these.
My dad is a boat builder and uses fibre glass and carbon fibre alot, done lots of moulds and for all sorts of things.
I talked to him, and he said these will be quite easy to make.

We worked out that the mould will cost me around $150 to make, then around another $50 per set of skirts. (add $50 for carbon fibre per skirt).
So my question is, does anyone want a set?

I'm interested as well

[steve0suprem0]

hey, i forgot to ask. you're talking doing this in cf, right? i wouldn't be interested at all if you do fiberglass. i know i'd get it broken the first time i drove with it.

[rob101]

hey, i forgot to ask. you're talking doing this in cf, right? i wouldn't be interested at all if you do fiberglass. i know i'd get it broken the first time i drove with it.
Unless it is has kevlar in the weave i think you'll find carbon fibre is more brittle than fibreglass.

[genphreak]

Unless it is has kevlar in the weave i think you'll find carbon fibre is more brittle than fibreglass.I'm happy with fibreglass, it's easy to fix ;)

But some reinforceing webs would be a god idea- they would take some force at the average 150-240kmh I do along Sydney streets- especially over the median strips and railway crossings where I usually get so much air the car needs wings like an 'ReX... I'm surprised someone like fukem5 hasn't chimed in and told us all how to make em out of titanium CF with some rare earth polymers from a deep rock sub-strate only found under the Amazon... LOL

[The Bigfella]

Anyone here given a thought to the intellectual property rights of Hartge?

[genphreak]

Anyone here given a thought to the intellectual property rights of Hartge?Whortge are they?

I think we are talking about reverse engineering them, not copying them outright. But it's not up to me, I'm not making them. Seriously though, I doubt Hartge need worry about cheap copies, they'd have gone out of business doing that.

Do they actually still make them for the e34? :) Nick

[steve0suprem0]

well i didn't know about cf being more brittle than fiberglass. which is interesting. i've just started today the composites section of getting my a&p license, and i'll probably learn that sometime this week.

unfortunately, i'm an even bigger idiot in other reegards. i didn't even notice this was going on in australia. and i'm sure it wouldn't be cheap or cost effective to send this stuff to the states. so i'm sad to say, i'm out.

[bmwrp8]

post a pix of the original and the one that you made:)

[rob101]

well i didn't know about cf being more brittle than fiberglass. which is interesting. i've just started today the composites section of getting my a&p license, and i'll probably learn that sometime this week.

well it is if its only carbon fibre with no kevlar. I remember reading one of Carroll Smith's books where he said they went from pure CF in F 1 chassis to CF with kevlar in the weave because CF does not absorb energy very well in a crash. This is because CF it is brittle and has a lower work of fracture than say aramid fibre (kevlar) reinforced polymer or GFRP. This is also the reason why they make bullet proof vests from kevlar and not carbon fibre is because its tough.

[Michael999]

Carbon fibre has ENORMOUS tensile strength, its incredibly thin, a single layer once glued up, is going to be as thin as paper.
Ill be making these reasonably thick from fibreglass.
When i said an option of carbon fibre, i mean a single outside layer.
Its far too expensive to do the entire thing from it, and it would be very thin, and face it, out cars arent really concerned with a couple of extra kilos anyways :)

Btw ill get pics up tonight of the originals before we start waxing them up.
The actual mould wont begin for another week or so, wax needs to be applied once a day for about a week and then polished, this gets it into the pores, without this the resin sticks to my originals, and wet wax will cause a horrible surface finish. (hope i can get this wax off after to paint mine :P)


edit, as for Hartge's intelectual property rights, im making some replicas, a very small private run, no matter how hard i try i wont be getting them identical anyways, AND these have been out of production for many years.
I cannot imagine that they would care even if they were told.

[rob101]

Carbon fibre has ENORMOUS tensile strength, its incredibly thin, a single layer once glued up, is going to be as thin as paper.
Ill be making these reasonably thick from fibreglass.
When i said an option of carbon fibre, i mean a single outside layer.
Its far too expensive to do the entire thing from it, and it would be very thin, and face it, out cars arent really concerned with a couple of extra kilos anyways :)

thats true, but I think you'll find tensile strength has nothing to do with brittleness. which is what i was talking about ,especially since fibre composites are anisotropic. and even if they weren't the strongest steels in tensile strength are also the most brittle generally.

[Michael999]

UPDATE:

Okay ive finally got all the info i needed to start, and i need to apply 6 coats of wax leaving around 6 hours between coats, just did the first coat, these pictures were taken just after.
Should see the mould under construction within the week.

[BigKriss]

Yay, looking good Michael. So do these go over the top of the stock side skirts, or do you remove the stock one to begin with?

[Michael999]

They just go straight over the top of mine.
When you say stock sideskirts, i assume you are talking about the black lip that tucks under and has an orange peel-like finish.

[BigKriss]

Yeah, thats exactly what I'm talking about. Thanks.


They just go straight over the top of mine.
When you say stock sideskirts, i assume you are talking about the black lip that tucks under and has an orange peel-like finish.

[BigKriss]

How are these coming along?

[t.wak]

Hey, I'm in on these as well if the final result is as expected! Thanks for putting in the effort!

[genphreak]

Mate! Those look F... f...F... f f f ***@#$% FAAANTASTIC!! I know the moulds and skirts you make won't be as good as the original, but I am DEAD keen on these. If only you'd do me 2 sets for when the first pair break! You realise that from now on (ie until you die) bimmer nuts will be coming out of the woodwork from every angle, hassling you for those 'great skirts' you made... EXCELLENT work Micheal, excellent. What you can come up with on the other side appears very promising!

[genphreak]

UPDATE:

Okay ive finally got all the info i needed to start, and i need to apply 6 coats of wax leaving around 6 hours between coats, just did the first coat, these pictures were taken just after.
Should see the mould under construction within the week. Hi Michael... how did the first set go? It's seldom that simple... have you gotten them to work out at all? :) Nick