biogasoline - who is using that?

[shogun]

My wife just called me if she can fill up the tank with that.
Was started only yesterday here in Japan, they are far behind with that compared to other countries because of lack of agricultural areas and Toyota is using the Hybrid motor.

So I checked in the newspaper and it says
quote
that yesterday morning the first deliveries have been made. Biogasoline is made by mixing gasoline with ethyl tertiary butyl ether (ETBE), a synthesis of bioethanol and petroleum gas. The new fuel will be sold at 50 gasoline stations in Tokyo and adjacent prefectures from today, with a nationwide rollout to be completed by 2010. Bioethanol, which makes up to 3% of the blend, causes no rise in CO2 emissions.
unquote

Is there any harm with that stuff for our old cars? Especially gaskets material or so?

Thanks for the input.

[winfred]

never really herd of it, without seeing more info id guess it would probably be ok with the usual disclaimer about different solvents breaking loose deposits in the lines/tank and the alcohol attacking various rubber components in older fuel systems, besides the chance of their lab testing not showing stuff like valve deposits in older not as lean burning engines

[shogun]

Thanks winfred,

apparently here in Japan the mixture is still very low with 3% of the blend, I think in USA and/or Canada they use 15% now with the E85.(?)

In the German board I read that officially BMW does not recommend it for the older cars because of the reasons you mentioned.
There is one guy on the German 7-Forum who is driving a test E32 750 since September last year, some others 750E32 and 735 straight six.
Some report about bad starting problems, instable idle, more fuel consumption etc.
But that is E85!
Others have no problem, so not clear if that is the biogasoline or something else.

So 15% is ETBE.
Here in Japan we have only 3% now.

[bigtisas]

Don't understand why Japan so far behind on bio fuel while claiming herself pioneer in environmental protection. Brazil has turned 70% of automobile to use ethanol.

[shogun]

Don't understand why Japan so far behind on bio fuel while claiming herself pioneer in environmental protection. Brazil has turned 70% of automobile to use ethanol.

Only 15% of the area of Japan can be used for agriculture and housing, the rest are mountains. There is not enough land area like in Brazil to grow sugar cane, soy beans, corn etc.
Even the feed for cows is imported into Japan from USA, such as corn.

That is why they are pushing the hybrid solution like Toyota.
The product for mixing this 3% now into the normal fuel is imported mainly from the Philippines.

[colo525i]

Shogun, our fuels out in the western USA are 10% ethanol for the winter months. They are considering running 10% ethanol year round. I haven't had any problems with the 525 since it is fairly high compression. my 7.8-1 compression ratio motorcycle engine doesn't like the stuff though. And for clarification, E85 is actually 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline. Many american manufacturers and i believe some japanese cars are programmed to work with it. It decreases fuel mileage upwards of 15%, but the E85 is cheaper than regular gasoline due to subsidies. The price of corn has risen to the point where farmers in mexico would rather sell it to the US for ethanol, instead of making corn flour with it!

[shogun]

[QUOTE]but the E85 is cheaper than regular gasoline due to subsidies./QUOTE]

That is the point here, In Japan it is the same price as normal fuel.
Petroleum companies say, they should actually ask for more as the production is more costly. (not sure if that is true)

Same subsidies are made in Europe of E85 like in USA.
That is why the market is booming for plants for production of plants usable for Ethanol.
In Malaysia the government is now limiting the production of biodiesel plants from coconut oil (no further licences), as everyone jumps on the train and wants to make more money with biodiesel or fuel than with normal cooking oil.
Before the farmers in Europe got subsidies from the EU when they stopped growing excess supply on their land, now every small corner is utilized for this new boom.

Now they are making fuel from wood chips here in Japan in some test plants.

Fish oil is used as fuel for boilers instead of food, farmers use the gas from bio plants from cow manure.
Solar energy is used a lot here for heating up the water for houses as well as wind energy.

[Ferret]

Buy an E34 with an M51 engine, and just run it on straight sunflower oil... or a 50-50 diesel mix...

I've experimented with that and it 'just works' though not tried it in the tds yet...

Though, of course... I've never tried it on a uk taxable road before...

>.>

<.<

[Ross]

10% ethanol here in Chicago year round. Older cars fuel systems don't like the corrosive effects of it. E85 being touted as the savior(BS), mostly by agriculture lobbyists.
Nothing but truffle oil for our Bimmer though.

[mzarifkar]

even the 15% ethanol which is so common here in iowa is detrimental to your gasmileage. quitefrankly i think it sucks, its like Gasoline Light.. for fat cars.

sleek stefanie only gets ethanol a few times in winter because it will mix with
moisture in the tank and prevent freeze ups.

[brick8]

10% ethanol is ok. Anything above that shouldn't be used without mods. E85 is corrosive, only meant to be used in flexfuel cars. Try not to use the 10% stuff in any motor where it will be sitting for a while (for example a snowmobile or mower) because it decomposes quickly.

[Kibokojoe]

Shogun
Ethanol is bad news. It robs you of power, mileage and in the end it will bring a shorter life to your engine. IMHO It only good for cleaning parts.

Ken


My wife just called me if she can fill up the tank with that.
Was started only yesterday here in Japan, they are far behind with that compared to other countries because of lack of agricultural areas and Toyota is using the Hybrid motor.

So I checked in the newspaper and it says
quote
that yesterday morning the first deliveries have been made. Biogasoline is made by mixing gasoline with ethyl tertiary butyl ether (ETBE), a synthesis of bioethanol and petroleum gas. The new fuel will be sold at 50 gasoline stations in Tokyo and adjacent prefectures from today, with a nationwide rollout to be completed by 2010. Bioethanol, which makes up to 3% of the blend, causes no rise in CO2 emissions.
unquote

Is there any harm with that stuff for our old cars? Especially gaskets material or so?

Thanks for the input.

[Blitzkrieg Bob]

fresh from the northern territories of Newfoundland.

Batter up!

[attack eagle]

I guess if you confronted the neo environmental nazis about it, eventually they would have to confess that all petroleum products are BIO. It's all decomposed plant material after all. :)

ETBE???

I guess it uses ethanol as the base instead of methanol...
I try like hell NOT to run those crappy mixed gasolines, but have no choice in winter as everything is mixed with something here by law. The ethanols this last year were better than the MBTEs were in prior years but I did notice more power and better fuel economy running on real gas as soon as it became available.
I wouldn't run it if I had the choice NOT to.

[RallyD]

here in NYC and surrounding suburbs, it used to be 10% in winter months only. Now I think that it is now year round.

OK now why would it be a good idea to use arable soil to produce fuel. "Growing" gas is touted as a renewable resource but you can only grow on a parcel of land for so long before it loses its nutrients.
But hey, it's no worse than raising cattle to make my double bacon cheese burgers and 20oz porterhouse steaks,lol

[winfred]

thats whats cool about the cummins, i can get some 100% tuna free dolphin fat render it down and burn it as fuel, then drive by a peace protest and roll some coal at them and be saving the environment by not supporting big oil :D


I use whale and baby harp seal oil fresh from the northern territories of Newfoundland.

Batter up!