LPG Conversion

[540 touring]

Hello

I was considering an LPG conversion to my 540 touring. Has anyone done one and what do they think ?

cheers

[Ferret]

Hello

I was considering an LPG conversion to my 540 touring. Has anyone done one and what do they think ?

cheers

I take it you're in the UK if you're looking at an LPG conversion?

I had a 535i guesstimated by a bimmer specialist down here, and he reckoned it'd cost about £2400 to get it fitted to a straight 6 with direct injection.

V8's I'd be thinking you could probably push the barge out to about £3k for the direct injection conversion...

The direct injection conversions you hardly notice the difference at all - but you pay less than half the value of unleaded at around 38-45p/litre - which means you'd pay the same as if your 540 was doing 40mpg in fuel costs.

Just my $0.02 but I'd weigh up the cost very carefully against the amount of fuel you're using and work out the savings and how long it'd take you to break even on the conversion...

EDIT: Also forgot to mention if you're in the UK, make sure your installer is 'certified' and can offer you an install certificate - otherwise beware of insurance rapeage if you have a bit of a prang... not sure what the US etc insurance companies are like though...

[cooljules]

I take it you're in the UK if you're looking at an LPG conversion?

I had a 535i guesstimated by a bimmer specialist down here, and he reckoned it'd cost about £2400 to get it fitted to a straight 6 with direct injection.

V8's I'd be thinking you could probably push the barge out to about £3k for the direct injection conversion...

The direct injection conversions you hardly notice the difference at all - but you pay less than half the value of unleaded at around 38-45p/litre - which means you'd pay the same as if your 540 was doing 40mpg in fuel costs.

Just my $0.02 but I'd weigh up the cost very carefully against the amount of fuel you're using and work out the savings and how long it'd take you to break even on the conversion...

EDIT: Also forgot to mention if you're in the UK, make sure your installer is 'certified' and can offer you an install certificate - otherwise beware of insurance rapeage if you have a bit of a prang... not sure what the US etc insurance companies are like though...


I drive to Poland often from UK, i was told over there its about 300quid and same standard, so thinking of going that route for one of my E34's

[540 touring]

I drive to Poland often from UK, i was told over there its about 300quid and same standard, so thinking of going that route for one of my E34's
thanks . Let me know how you get on.

cheers

phil

[540 touring]

I take it you're in the UK if you're looking at an LPG conversion?

I had a 535i guesstimated by a bimmer specialist down here, and he reckoned it'd cost about £2400 to get it fitted to a straight 6 with direct injection.

V8's I'd be thinking you could probably push the barge out to about £3k for the direct injection conversion...

The direct injection conversions you hardly notice the difference at all - but you pay less than half the value of unleaded at around 38-45p/litre - which means you'd pay the same as if your 540 was doing 40mpg in fuel costs.

Just my $0.02 but I'd weigh up the cost very carefully against the amount of fuel you're using and work out the savings and how long it'd take you to break even on the conversion...

EDIT: Also forgot to mention if you're in the UK, make sure your installer is 'certified' and can offer you an install certificate - otherwise beware of insurance rapeage if you have a bit of a prang... not sure what the US etc insurance companies are like though...

thanks for the advice. I hope to keep my e34 going as long as possible, so when I get saved up I think I'll go for it. Does the mileage have any bearing ?

thanks very much

[Morgenster]

Even if you shell out 3k for the conversion it 'll increase resale value considerably or you can keep the setup for another car after the e34. Although in the latter case You'd only be able to use it on a V8 car.

[cooljules]

thanks . Let me know how you get on.

cheers

phil
As soon as i can more concrete info will post, might be a few days...its seems the Poles coming here just about all get conversions done, i was told a adapter was needed for the nozzle...not sure if its true or why...i guess it must to be a EU standard.

[rob101]

As soon as i can more concrete info will post, might be a few days...its seems the Poles coming here just about all get conversions done, i was told a adapter was needed for the nozzle...not sure if its true or why...i guess it must to be a EU standard.
we the australians would also be interested in knowing how it goes, we get a 2k rebate on aftermarket LPG systems. personally i'd like to go to single fuel (and ditch the petrol), which uses port injection LPG. I assume when you say "direct injection" this is what you mean.

[Ferret]

we the australians would also be interested in knowing how it goes, we get a 2k rebate on aftermarket LPG systems. personally i'd like to go to single fuel (and ditch the petrol), which uses port injection LPG. I assume when you say "direct injection" this is what you mean.

Yeah, the guy was saying you could have a complete swap over to LPG injectors and do away with the petrol if you really want... but didnt reccomend it as LPG isnt taking off as much as they'd like here.

[Morgenster]

Yeah, the guy was saying you could have a complete swap over to LPG injectors and do away with the petrol if you really want... but didnt reccomend it as LPG isnt taking off as much as they'd like here.

Worse even, the classic gaseous injecion systems still rely on an evaporator to run. That's why so practically every LPG car starts on petrol. The evaporator needs a hot coolant feed from the engine in order to keep working and will easily freeze shut if you start the car on LPG when cold.

[rob101]

Worse even, the classic gaseous injecion systems still rely on an evaporator to run. That's why so practically every LPG car starts on petrol. The evaporator needs a hot coolant feed from the engine in order to keep working and will easily freeze shut if you start the car on LPG when cold.
what i can't understand is why the evaporators don't have electric heaters for start up, so when you get into your car you could turn the ignition on for a minute or so to warm up the evaporator much like a diesel with glow plugs.
I was aware of that problem, but i figured someone would have been smart enough to think of that solution by now.

[Tiger]

How do you guys measure your fuel mileage when you are on propane? For those of you, how many MPG do you get on propane?

[Morgenster]

about 12-13l per 100km. An injection system would be closer to 9l.
With premium fuel at 1,40 euro/l and LPG at 0,40 euro/l :D

[Ferret]

what i can't understand is why the evaporators don't have electric heaters for start up, so when you get into your car you could turn the ignition on for a minute or so to warm up the evaporator much like a diesel with glow plugs.
I was aware of that problem, but i figured someone would have been smart enough to think of that solution by now.

I *think* the modern systems do now, the trouble is the amount of power that it takes to keep the evaporator warm - people dont realise how much heat energy is stored in hot water.

If you think about it, a 2KW electric kettle takes a good 1-3 minutes to bring up to boil - which is only an ~80 celcius change... that kind of energy from a car electrical system would require a good 160 amps.

[Tiger]

Mmm... that's quite a saving on fuel price. So how often do you guys refill the LPG when compared to petrol?

[Morgenster]

I *think* the modern systems do now, the trouble is the amount of power that it takes to keep the evaporator warm - people dont realise how much heat energy is stored in hot water.

If you think about it, a 2KW electric kettle takes a good 1-3 minutes to bring up to boil - which is only an ~80 celcius change... that kind of energy from a car electrical system would require a good 160 amps.

Exactly. Only liquid injection systems would make a good complete replacement for petrol. They exist but are so far only manufactured by Vialle and cost a great deal.

[Morgenster]

Mmm... that's quite a saving on fuel price. So how often do you guys refill the LPG when compared to petrol?

I average 3000km a month. That's one refill of petrol and about 10 refills of LPG a month. But my tank is small (spare wheel well). The bigger cylindertanks will take 100l of wich you can use up some 70-80l.
No biggie for me because there's a refill station at the Q8 near my work and they sell delicious club sandwiches.
I'm estimating 170-190 euros a month in fuel costs per 3000km. Keep in mind that premium petrol has just reached the whopping price of 1.42euro/l and hasn't gone below 1.25 in the last three years.

[E34-520iSE]

what i can't understand is why the evaporators don't have electric heaters for start up, so when you get into your car you could turn the ignition on for a minute or so to warm up the evaporator much like a diesel with glow plugs.
I was aware of that problem, but i figured someone would have been smart enough to think of that solution by now.
At work we have an LPG-fuelled fork lift truck that is powered by a VW polo engine. Seems like Lansing figured that problem out!

Cheers,

Shaun M

[Ferret]

At work we have an LPG-fuelled fork lift truck that is powered by a VW polo engine. Seems like Lansing figured that problem out!

Cheers,

Shaun M

Dont those things basically light a burner under the evaporator or something while the engine's warming up?

EDIT: On actually applying brain - iirc those things dont use enough gas to cause a freeze up...

[rob101]

At work we have an LPG-fuelled fork lift truck that is powered by a VW polo engine. Seems like Lansing figured that problem out!

Cheers,

Shaun M
Yeah i didn't think of that we have one also at work. Majority of Injection systems are vapour. I think Liquid injection is mostly still in development phase due to the pressure passed through the injectors being very high.

[Boom n Zoom]

Rob, is this the Company in Oz your talking about?


http://www.gas-injection.com/index.html

I still haven't read the whole site as yet, and I cannot confirm if this Company is using liquid injection technology or if the system still uses an evaporater.

The Company is due to release some systems this year. Will more than likely be Holdens and Falcons with maybe a smattering of Euros.

P.S. I have no affiliation, nor finacial interests within this Company.

[rob101]

Rob, is this the Company in Oz your talking about?


http://www.gas-injection.com/index.html

I still haven't read the whole site as yet, and I cannot confirm if this Company is using liquid injection technology or if the system still uses an evaporater.

The Company is due to release some systems this year. Will more than likely be Holdens and Falcons with maybe a smattering of Euros.

P.S. I have no affiliation, nor finacial interests within this Company.
their current systems are vapour injection which requires an evaporator. Future releases are liquid, but i think they'd been looking for some private investment to enable them to go into production with it or at least thats what i've read from "da innanet". Ford Australia is supposely doing research into liquid phase LPG injection also.

[LPGguy]

check this link http://www.bimmernut.com/forum/showthread.php?42561-Converting-BMW-E39-540i-Touring-to-LPG can be helpful for you