5hp30 trans... These bits of boken metal don't look good!

[blue540]

Calling all trany experts!

Lost reverse on my 540iA about two weeks ago:(

I have read a lot about this trans so imediately thought that a valve body rebuild would be the answer. I ordered the kit, filter and and pan gasket and set about removing my valve body.

I have just finished getting it out. This is what I found sitting all over the top of the valve body.

http://www.photobox.co.uk/album/album_photo.html?c_photo=1319928904

Each peice is about 5mm long and thay all look as if they would make up a disc shape if assembled, assuming I had all the bits.

I have to say, my limited knowledge of automatic transmisions tells me that this is bad!

What's the verdict fellow e34 devotees? Is my tranny toast?

Many thanks....

[Tiger]

Looks like the tranny broke the band. Meaning someone kept driving the tranny when trouble started.

[neil_004]

+1
Time to take it to the shop. Towing it would be better than driving it.

[blue540]

Ouch!

Problem started about 1/2 mile form home while picking son up from nursery, it would not reverse into the space in the car park. This was the first time it had ever done it. I then drove it the 1/2 mile home where it sat for two weeks until I was ready to do the repair....

I guess that must have been enough to do the damage... What exactly is a Band and what does it do?

Are we now talking re-manufactured trans as opposed to valve body rebuild?

[shogun]

That are not parts of the valve body. Have a look here
http://www.zf-group.com/pdf/5HP30.pdf
http://tsunami.members.winisp.net/bmwstuff/740iL%205HP30%20Valve%20Body%20Update/Forms/AllItems.aspx?View=%7b40D0BD0C%2d9DB9%2d4777%2dB01 7%2d54505353C068%7d
http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/351965
http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/356031

Here is the address in the U.K. where my friend bought the parts for the valve body

JP(Automatic Transmissions) Ltd
URL is http://www.jpat.co.uk/
E-mail is info@jpat.co.uk

Address is
4a &4b, Pear Tree Industrial Estate, Bath Road, Upper Langford,
North Somerset BS40 5DJ UK
Tel +44 (0) 1934 852772
Fax +44 (0) 1934 852211

[Ross]

Agree with Shogun this isn't pieces of the valve body. I don't think a band either but definately a "hard" part has disintegrated.
If you are in the UK you already know E34s are dirt cheap, so a used box would be my choice.
If you find a trans shop you trust have them do the autopsy, it may not be more than 1 broken part plus the usual wear parts.

[blue540]

Yeah, I have the rebuild kit and have inspected all the bits, none of them look like what this was!

Thanks for the replies people. I shall now go away and contemplate a 6 speed swap out!


££££££££££££

Damn, I was hoping I was going to be able to fix this!

[bsell]

Man, those chunks look like teeth off a clutch pack or parts of a one-way clutch. I doubt the one way clutch as the car still goes forward in drive, right?

I wonder if the previous owner or some teenager has been playing the old snatch it into gear (neutral drop) to get the tires smoking... Why they would pick reverse is beyond me but either way that poor tranny has seen some hard times. I would rather start with something less abused to rebuild than the one you have.

Sorry for the bad luck,

Brian

[Tiger]

There are several clutch packs in a transmission and depending on which way it is turning... is the gear selected. The bands hold the clutch packs so gear ratio is possible along with reverse.

The typical problem with 5HP30 is the checkball got too small from wear and tear... will jam into the orifice thereby engaging a certain band or clutch pack full time while the transmission is doing the other... So if the band is engaged while the majority of force is going the other way... bam! broken bits.

[Tiger]

Yep... rebuild whole tranny is the only choice from here on.

[bsell]

There are several clutch packs in a transmission and depending on which way it is turning... is the gear selected. The bands hold the clutch packs so gear ratio is possible along with reverse.

The typical problem with 5HP30 is the checkball got too small from wear and tear... will jam into the orifice thereby engaging a certain band or clutch pack full time while the transmission is doing the other... So if the band is engaged while the majority of force is going the other way... bam! broken bits.

Who thought up that crap? A fine design decision, if you want to rebuild trannys!

Brian

[Tiger]

A design flaw but they still use that tranny today... 5HP30 was brand new when installed on 540i in 1994 and other high powered cars. Today they still use 5HP30 unless they went to 6 or 7 speeds. I don't know when production ends.

[blue540]

Yep, car still goes forward with no noticable change in drive. When I select reverse on a level surface the car will start to move very slowly backwards. If you give it a touch of gas it just begins to rev with no added movement of the car. There is no power there at all, that is to say if you were on a slight gradient reverse would have no effect at all.


I'm wondering how long these 'teeth' or whatever they are have been lying on top of my valve body.

What do I have to loose if I carry out the valve body rebuild and chuck it back in the car with fresh fluid. ie, can I destroy my newly rebuilt valve body elimiating the possibility of putting it into another trans if this one proves to be toast?

These valve bodies are a crazy bits of kit. I had a practice strip down using the valve body of a dead 5hp18 from a freinds e38 just to prepare myself.

I might strip it and see if the check ball is out of place.

Thanks for the links Shogun, some great info in there!

Steve

[whiskychaser]

What do I have to loose if I carry out the valve body rebuild and chuck it back in the car with fresh fluid. ie, can I destroy my newly rebuilt valve body elimiating the possibility of putting it into another trans if this one proves to be toast?

These valve bodies are a crazy bits of kit. I had a practice strip down using the valve body of a dead 5hp18 from a freinds e38 just to prepare myself.

I might strip it and see if the check ball is out of place.

Thanks for the links Shogun, some great info in there!

Steve

I dont see you wrecking the new valve body but I do think putting it in is a waste of time. A recon box is about £1k+vat. I got a used 5HP18 from a good known source and still had to put in new speed sensors after I fitted it. Point - if you go to a breakers you may only pay a couple of hundred but you dont know what you are getting. I thought of doing a rebuild on my old box but somebody nicked it!!

[Ross]

Since you have the kit why not tear it apart and see what you've got? Stiil a chance of only the mystery part being broken, you may get away cheap.
Don't give up on it until you confirm a lot of destruction. I would guess those bits are drum that has broken up. Bands are steel, your bits look cast.

[blue540]

Since you have the kit why not tear it apart and see what you've got? Stiil a chance of only the mystery part being broken, you may get away cheap.
Don't give up on it until you confirm a lot of destruction. I would guess those bits are drum that has broken up. Bands are steel, your bits look cast.

Thanks Ross.

I'm going to give it a go. Alll I loose out on worst case is time and the cost of some fluid.

I can always revert to buying a used box (risky but significantly cheaper than recon) and fitting my already rebuilt valve body.

Thanks for the input everyone, I'll let you know how I get on!

[fujioko]

££££££££££££ = 1.977 x $$$$$$$$$$$$$. So sad.

[Omega]

If you're in the UK as I suspect get a box from one of the specialist breakers like Quarry Motors or FAB. It wil be cheaper than a rebuild.

They could probably source the 6 speed as well....

[blue540]

If you're in the UK as I suspect get a box from one of the specialist breakers like Quarry Motors or FAB. It wil be cheaper than a rebuild.

They could probably source the 6 speed as well....

Yeah, these are both good breakers, FAB can be a little expensive but usually have a very good stock. I was surprised to find that neither breaker has a 5hp30 trans.

No 6 speeds either!!:(

[Tiger]

Have you tried Germany? I think parts over there are abundant and cheap.