OT: Audi A4

[markus]

Hey guys, does anyone in here know much about them? Better yet personal experiiences would help. My buddy might be selling his 99 A4 1.8t quattro with a shade over 100k on it. Its silver with a black interior, 5-speed. Not the best cosmetically, has a few dents and some ******* at his work hit his rear bumper so hes getting that replaced. I think he would give it to me for $5500 which I think is a good deal. Just had a recent timing belt and water pump done and new control arms up front and a new cv joint. So its good for a while with all the major ****. Im just concerned at how reliable this thing will be. He bought it with 82k on it and has never had a real problem. He wants to sell for a toyota FJ.

[txp135]

ummm no, please no. From what I heard a lot of those A4s and poorer cousin Passat couldn't be given away. Go to msn.com and check on reliability report to be sure. I was looking at those too before. I heard they are very nice, until you have to spend money.

[Zeuk in Oz]

Im just concerned at how reliable this thing will be.
Run away from it as fast as you can. ;)

[Ferret]

What the heck's this about reliability problems on an A4?

I learned to drive in my dads '98 A4, which ran to a shade under 290k miles before he sold it for US$8k, having never spent any money on it other than servicing/tyres and replaced the exhaust once in that period...

Being quite honest, I thought it drove better than both of my E34s, though it did have the sports suspension pack on it.

[Ross]

Nope, you'll be sorry. Unreliable chunk of crap that is impossible to sell when you finally learn your lesson.

[bimmerd00d]

awaiting Jon K, he knows a bit about them i believe.

[txp135]

From what I heard, Audi almost went under because of those late 90s A4s. Their reputation among Audi owners were greatly damaged, but somehow not too many outside the circle knew about it.



Follow this link and read the reviews long term owners, some of the people who own these for only 1 yr seem happy....

http://autos.msn.com/research/userreviews/reviewlist.aspx?modelid=109


What the heck's this about reliability problems on an A4?

I learned to drive in my dads '98 A4, which ran to a shade under 290k miles before he sold it for US$8k, having never spent any money on it other than servicing/tyres and replaced the exhaust once in that period...

Being quite honest, I thought it drove better than both of my E34s, though it did have the sports suspension pack on it.

[repenttokyo]

What the heck's this about reliability problems on an A4?

I learned to drive in my dads '98 A4, which ran to a shade under 290k miles before he sold it for US$8k, having never spent any money on it other than servicing/tyres and replaced the exhaust once in that period...

Being quite honest, I thought it drove better than both of my E34s, though it did have the sports suspension pack on it.


you got very lucky, i like audi's but am deathly scared of them second hand, especially from that era.

[Ferret]

From what I heard, Audi almost went under because of those late 90s A4s. Their reputation among Audi owners were greatly damaged, but somehow not too many outside the circle knew about it.



Follow this link and read the reviews long term owners, some of the people who own these for only 1 yr seem happy....

http://autos.msn.com/research/userreviews/reviewlist.aspx?modelid=109


I'm shocked you guys think of Audi's like this, I've not heard one person ever be scared of buying an Audi over here, they're well respected and never 'nearly went under' here, being one of the strongest car manufacturers, many people much prefer audi's over the bimmers cos they're seen as not having that 'bad driver' edge.

The users on that MSN link have given the car 86% which I'd say is pretty damned good... especially when if you put the E39 next to it, it only gets 89%...

People fight over A2's and A3's in this country :o

[repenttokyo]

We don't have A2's and A3's from that era here. All we have are A4's, 6's, and 8's with scary eletrical problems and problematic front suspensions that require regular replacement.

And this is in Canada, where awd is very welcome in the snow.

[Jon K]

awaiting Jon K, he knows a bit about them i believe.


Heh. Here are my thoughts --

These cars are great when they're great - they're horrible when "ok". They don't hold their value worth a ****. This is because of poor consistency from car to car in terms of reliability, I'd imagine.

The K03 turbo on the 20v 1.8t craps out at around 100 - 120k typically. It's a pain in the ASS to replace it yourself. Dealers charge an AMAZING coin to replace it with a new K03. The timing belts have to be replaced every 40k miles or so, which requires significant breakdown of the motor on these things. The B5's, which a '99 is, is known for a BUNCH of electronic gremlins. Axles break even on stock cars, if it's quattro that's great but the transfer cases need maintenance.

The best part is that they are CHEAP. When I was looking for my '92 525, I was looking at a '98 A4 (in 2002) and they were like $10k. The bad thing, is that the parts aren't horribly expensive... but it's a volkwagen... that means the parts are ok in price but it requires the engine to be removed to do anything. I am joking, but sort of not. When a manifold stud broke on my friend '03 Jetta 1.8T, we put it in the garage and started to replace it. Turns out the stud broke on the turbo side and so it needed a new turbocharger or drill and retap the downpipe flange. No big deal...remove turbo, put up new turbo (used but new to us)... wrong. Exhaust manifold has to come off. No big deal.... 20 nuts right? Wrong. 20 nuts and oil lines and coolant lines and engine needs to be unmounted so it can tilt. Put the new turbo on and bolt **** back up right? Wrong. Coolant/oil lines (hard lines) are pinched when the turbo is unbolted by the weight of the turbo. So now we need to try and preserve the lines or do new ones. Managed to preserve the lines. The lines have to be installed on the turbo, then the turbo to the manifold, then the manifold to the head.... with coolant dripping in your mouth and you arms getting tingly... do the math.

My recommendation is if the car is MINT and you KNOW it's mint... maybe do it. But be prepared for some pretty gay and unpredictable maintenance.


Oh yeah - I forgot to add a couple things. The 1.8T motor, like any turbo motor, can be made to make great power with just a chip. However, people have blown engines - not from bad tuning or aggressive driving... but from mechanical failure of connecting rods.

Here is a car we're currently working on it's my friend Nick's A4 1.8T:

http://www.blowneuroz.com/ptgallery/NickA4/race10.jpg

http://www.blowneuroz.com/ptgallery/NickA4/5520073.jpg

http://www.blowneuroz.com/ptgallery/NickA4/5520075.jpg

You get the idea - this sort of damage DOES occur on very lightly modded / stock cars. It's just one of those things - people run junk fuel, knock the engine for months/years, then someone winds it up full throttle and ... take a peak above :)

[markus]

ill pass guys. i even talked to a guy whos sister has a 2001 A4 and the engine blew at 81k. I drove a 525i with a 5-speed today and I must say i thought it was pretty fun. this one was a pretty rough car. im looking for a nice well kept 525i 5-speed if anyone has one for grabs.

[txp135]

He's asking about A4 (not A2s and A3s), which is a more expensive version of the VW Passat. And as I said, they are nice car until you have to spend money. If you look at the comments from people who have owned the car for more than 3 yrs, see if it still adds up to 86%.

[Wes F]

Damn, had no idea Audi had those kinda issues...always loved the a4s, at least the looks/interiors...what about the s4?? I'd love to get one someday, should I not? I drove my cousin's '04 s4 once, it was absolutely-freaking-amazing! Thing was fast as all hell, damn fine interior, and had badass looks...are these things no bueno?

[Russell]

Heard the newer ones are much better cars. I sure hope so. My daughter bought a 2004 A4 1.8T Quattro with 23,000 miles as a certified car from an Audi dealer. It has all maintenace paid to 50,000 and warrenty til 75,000.

She is fully aware of the sludge issues with the turbo engine and the need for "dismanteling" of the car for a timing belt/water pump change and need for regular auto trans service. However, she only plans to keep it about 3 years and move on.

BTW, the interior is very-very nice and rides and drives very well. There were no recalls on this model which is surprising for any car these days.

To answer yor question, I would stay away from an older A4

[takumidrift30]

Just got mine for 3 weeks now, it's A4 2.8L 1996. I was really looking for a daily driver/beater car coz right now I'm using the 525i stick as my daily driver. I intend to keep the car as much as I can so don't want to put miles on the clock plus at the same time keeping it mint. So decided to buy another acr, initially was looking for an E30 but I came across this guy who's moving out of state (even if after reading and speaking with owners of Audi still went on with the car) it was below $2000. Not that it has problem but he's running behind his schedule. Gave me new parts that he was about to replace on the car, over the weekend put them on.
As with Jon K's write up hell it's like Indiana Jones parts by parts to have to remove/pull down before to get into the main part. Though so far so good with the car but what an experience working them, guess have to prepare myself in the future.

[Kobe Diesel]

I have 98 A4 with 2.8L 30V, 5spd and quattro (125k miles). My daily driver since the BMW is still in project status (blocks)
It is a beautiful car. Has plenty of power. The torque curve is best at 3k rpm in any gear when you need to get on it and go.
Very smooth gear shifting and excellent clutch pedal travel.
I have done basic engine maint, not too bad, unless you have to do timing belts - oh joy I cannot wait for that one, front of car has to come off and then you can access the front of the motor.
Has a slight rough idle which Im still perplexed as to what is causing it, but there is no roughness when revving the engine. Some cheap, to so-so, to good quality components.
Had to replace the rear wheel bearings. No suspension issues YET.
Brakes, no problem to work on, straight forward.
It's my daily, don't care about value as I probably will drive it to the very end.
Had I to do it over, I would have gone with the Avant for the extra space.
The latest Audi line is spectacular (I like more so than the new BMW line)
Otherwise, stay away if it's approaching 75k miles. Buy a young Audi, not old.

[whiskychaser]

I'm shocked you guys think of Audi's like this, I've not heard one person ever be scared of buying an Audi over here, they're well respected and never 'nearly went under' here, being one of the strongest car manufacturers, many people much prefer audi's over the bimmers cos they're seen as not having that 'bad driver' edge.

The users on that MSN link have given the car 86% which I'd say is pretty damned good... especially when if you put the E39 next to it, it only gets 89%...

People fight over A2's and A3's in this country :o

Couldnt agree more. Ok they dont have the looks but they are generally bomb-proof. Maybe they send any lemons further afield? Arent the cops buying skoda's now? :-)

[Jon K]

Damn, had no idea Audi had those kinda issues...always loved the a4s, at least the looks/interiors...what about the s4?? I'd love to get one someday, should I not? I drove my cousin's '04 s4 once, it was absolutely-freaking-amazing! Thing was fast as all hell, damn fine interior, and had badass looks...are these things no bueno?

Don't walk away from the turbo S4, RUN! Its a great motor when its great. The S4's suffer from the same failure as the A4's only two times more frequent/likely and you literally have to take the engine out of the car or remove the front clip to replace. RUN RUN RUN!

[Sam-Son]

Heh. Here are my thoughts --

These cars are great when they're great - they're horrible when "ok". They don't hold their value worth a ****. This is because of poor consistency from car to car in terms of reliability, I'd imagine.

The K03 turbo on the 20v 1.8t craps out at around 100 - 120k typically. It's a pain in the ASS to replace it yourself. Dealers charge an AMAZING coin to replace it with a new K03. The timing belts have to be replaced every 40k miles or so, which requires significant breakdown of the motor on these things. The B5's, which a '99 is, is known for a BUNCH of electronic gremlins. Axles break even on stock cars, if it's quattro that's great but the transfer cases need maintenance.

The best part is that they are CHEAP. When I was looking for my '92 525, I was looking at a '98 A4 (in 2002) and they were like $10k. The bad thing, is that the parts aren't horribly expensive... but it's a volkwagen... that means the parts are ok in price but it requires the engine to be removed to do anything. I am joking, but sort of not. When a manifold stud broke on my friend '03 Jetta 1.8T, we put it in the garage and started to replace it. Turns out the stud broke on the turbo side and so it needed a new turbocharger or drill and retap the downpipe flange. No big deal...remove turbo, put up new turbo (used but new to us)... wrong. Exhaust manifold has to come off. No big deal.... 20 nuts right? Wrong. 20 nuts and oil lines and coolant lines and engine needs to be unmounted so it can tilt. Put the new turbo on and bolt **** back up right? Wrong. Coolant/oil lines (hard lines) are pinched when the turbo is unbolted by the weight of the turbo. So now we need to try and preserve the lines or do new ones. Managed to preserve the lines. The lines have to be installed on the turbo, then the turbo to the manifold, then the manifold to the head.... with coolant dripping in your mouth and you arms getting tingly... do the math.

My recommendation is if the car is MINT and you KNOW it's mint... maybe do it. But be prepared for some pretty gay and unpredictable maintenance.


Oh yeah - I forgot to add a couple things. The 1.8T motor, like any turbo motor, can be made to make great power with just a chip. However, people have blown engines - not from bad tuning or aggressive driving... but from mechanical failure of connecting rods.

Here is a car we're currently working on it's my friend Nick's A4 1.8T:

You get the idea - this sort of damage DOES occur on very lightly modded / stock cars. It's just one of those things - people run junk fuel, knock the engine for months/years, then someone winds it up full throttle and ... take a peak above :)

So I take it you think they're unreliable

[Jon K]

So I take it you think they're unreliable

In fewer words ;)

[Russell]

Jon, Do you think the newer Audis have reliablity issues?. Especially the 2004 a4 Quattro 1.8T like my daughter bought :)

[repenttokyo]

B5 S4's are great, but they have problematic, complicated front suspensions that are quite different from the A4.

[Kobe Diesel]

Perhaps it's better to own a non-turbo motor vs a turbo motor.
The Audi V6 engines rev pretty nice (2.8 & 3.0) and have decent power, nothing extraordinary, but enjoyable. I think the V6 engines are more bulletproof than the turbo 4 motors (bulletproof in comparison only not overall).
Audi turbo enthusiasts state that they can modify by placing a chip, or installing a bigger turbo along with the ancillaries making a 4-cyl turbo motor out-perform the V6 NA types. This is true, but it cost money to purchase turbos ($$$), etc., and the labor whether you do it yourself or have a shop do it. I have found on those Audi forums that it is these same turbo enthusiasts who have multiple problems with their upgraded (or stock) turbo vehicles. Overall, upgrades have to be done right, no question about it - it is a tweakers delight - ask Jon K or just read his posts, it's a labor of love.
Some of us would like to just get in and have a happy go lucky drive for the day. Some of us would rather spend a Saturday morning under the hood resolving mechanical issues and then drive in the afternoon troubleshooting the next issue.
Regardless, if you are serious about an Audi purchase, my advice is to go with a V6 NA power option.

Audi makes a nice car, but not with the reliablility one typically would like to have. I once wrote to Audi and stated "I like your vehicle line, but I want enhanced reliability". Three months later, I received a response that was more or less "We manufacture cars that meet market demands". Of course, it was the typical German technocratic reply. I interpreted it as "if you cannot afford to repair it, don't buy an Audi".
Then again, I would not buy a Chevrolet either :D

[Ross]

Then again, I would not buy a Chevrolet either
Most American cars will run poorly longer than others will run.

[ILoveMPower]

If it was the 2.8 I would take it

1.8T, watch that timing chain!

[Jon K]

If it was the 2.8 I would take it

1.8T, watch that timing chain!

Belt :(

Snip snip

[filip00]

these cars are fairly reliable in europe, i don't know how they make them in the us.

[Tiger]

I drove a 97 A4 with Quattro 1.8T. I didn't like it at all... feels numb on the road but that is probably because of the tires. It was a friend's and I was taking care of that car while he was away. Audi always have some SRS issue... light comes on and then you have to reset it... which is easy with VAG-COM software (free older version) and cheap cable on ebay.

I'd take it to Audi specialist to look over the car is you are serious about it. I feel it is cramped interior... feels sort of ambigious in road feel... not rock solid like BMW in build quality...

[Justin-Redfive]

I've got a stage 3 98 A4 1.8TQM and its great. I've had it almost two years and the car's had the APR stage 3 setup for nearly 60k at this point. Its not the most reliable car I've owned, that was my 95 A62.8QM, but its pretty close up there. Most of my issues are from the PO who didn't install parts correctly. It does need some work, like a new timing belt and front axles (because the boots broke), but that's it. I have replaced the exhaust (PO installed it wrong and it got crushed), some coolant hoses, a couple sensors, 2 MAFs (thanks K&N), a coil pack, an O2 sensor, and I upgraded the brakes to 996 calipers with S4 rotors.
It gets 23-26mpg and its 290hp. I've even taken it to the track twice. The quattro system is amazing, but I can still get the rear tires to break lose and power slide on wet pavement. In the snow its sick. It oversteers! Because of the modifications, it does go thru quite a few spark plugs (new set every 10k). I do warn people about the S4s though...

[Traian]

All we have are A4's, 6's, and 8's with scary eletrical problems and problematic front suspensions that require regular replacement.


This reminds me of another car =)

[indierthanthou]

I owned a 97 12 valve 2.8 quattro, 5 speed. it was a great car until it was getting to about 100k, then the rear wheel bearings went, o2 sensors, front control arms (10 of them) and the timing belt had to be replaced (every 60k on the 2.8). this wasnt all at once, but from when it was 98k till i sold it at 115k. i miss it, i would buy it back in a second if i had the chance, but i wouldnt trade the e34 for it, at least not for my old one. its a great car, hard to break parts on them, but when parts go bad they are exPENSIVE!

$500 for four o2 sensors, and that was just for the parts from autohausaz

[brosher]

Yeh the 1.8T's is a fun motor that's easy to mod. However the thing is a PITA to work on. My fiance has a 1.8T passant and I don't want anything to do with it. Upside down oil filter that you can't even hardly get to. Gimme a friggin break! Timing belts are scary. The passat has 74k on the original one. Hoping it lasts another year till the wedding and then we're getting rid of it. Maybe sooner if I can convince her...

The V6 engines are supposedly pretty bulletproof though. No easy mods and less MPG on those though.

[fin]

I own both a 2001 Passat 1.8t and a 1994 530it.

The Passat has been in the shop only for oil changes in two years.

The current punch list for the 530it:

- driver's door inside handle/cable inop
- left rear light bulb and holder are somewhere in the sheet metal below where one might drop them if one's wife yells 'dinner' at the wrong time and too close as she can't see you inside the car.
- right rear window grinds when closing
- left rear window fails to respond to either switch
- driver side front speakers intemittently stop working and crackle loudly all too frequently
- handle on glove box snapped off

The best tool that I have acquired since buying the 530it is a digital multimeter.

Love driving both. Thinking of putting a 1.8t drivetrain in my Porsche 914 that is without one.

Cheers,

Fin

[takumidrift30]

Perhaps it's better to own a non-turbo motor vs a turbo motor.
The Audi V6 engines rev pretty nice (2.8 & 3.0) and have decent power, nothing extraordinary, but enjoyable. I think the V6 engines are more bulletproof than the turbo 4 motors (bulletproof in comparison only not overall).
Audi turbo enthusiasts state that they can modify by placing a chip, or installing a bigger turbo along with the ancillaries making a 4-cyl turbo motor out-perform the V6 NA types. This is true, but it cost money to purchase turbos ($$$), etc., and the labor whether you do it yourself or have a shop do it. I have found on those Audi forums that it is these same turbo enthusiasts who have multiple problems with their upgraded (or stock) turbo vehicles. Overall, upgrades have to be done right, no question about it - it is a tweakers delight - ask Jon K or just read his posts, it's a labor of love.
Some of us would like to just get in and have a happy go lucky drive for the day. Some of us would rather spend a Saturday morning under the hood resolving mechanical issues and then drive in the afternoon troubleshooting the next issue.
Regardless, if you are serious about an Audi purchase, my advice is to go with a V6 NA power option.

Audi makes a nice car, but not with the reliablility one typically would like to have. I once wrote to Audi and stated "I like your vehicle line, but I want enhanced reliability". Three months later, I received a response that was more or less "We manufacture cars that meet market demands". Of course, it was the typical German technocratic reply. I interpreted it as "if you cannot afford to repair it, don't buy an Audi".
Then again, I would not buy a Chevrolet either :D


One of the reason why I decided to go and buy the B5 A4, read forums, spoke with turbo owners and advice that I got just for daily driver get the 2.8 non-turbo(considering also for the price I got it). So far so good, did nothing but starter, basic tune up, change fluids. But hell working with them part after part after part you have to pull down to get to the main issue.

[NovceGuru]

1994 vs. 2001.

nice :)