Periodic loud ticking immediately after oil change M50

[repenttokyo]

So I had my oil changed today, and put in 5w40 synthetic as I have previously, same shop as well. This evening, and part of this afternoon, my engine has developed a really loud tick at low rpm - it almost sounds like a diesel. It seems to be coming from the top of the engine. While driving, there are periods where it goes away, but so far it has always come back. Any ideas as to what could have happened / what it is?

[gmannino]

Valves need to be adjusted.

[repenttokyo]

Valves need to be adjusted.


I didn't think the M50 motor needed periodic valve adjustments. Any reason why it would be all of a sudden, after an oil change?

[Blitzkrieg Bob]

Valves need to be adjusted.


I'd like to see you try.......


I had the same problem when I put 0w40 in my M50tu, it sounded like a old VW rabbit.

Went up to 15w50 and all is well.

[repenttokyo]

I had the same problem when I put 0w40 in my M50tu, it sounded like a old VW rabbit.

Went up to 15w50 and all is well.

that is frustrating to hear after dropping so much on a fresh pail of 5w40, but I have read others say the same thing. It was also very hot (well, for Canada) here today, which might have thinned things out even more.

Any chance that running like this is hurting my engine? Or is it just an annoying noise...I am running an EAT chip as well.

[rob101]

I'd like to see you try.......


I had the same problem when I put 0w40 in my M50tu, it sounded like a old VW rabbit.

Went up to 15w50 and all is well.
x2 except for the m50 non-vanos, going to drop out the 5W-40 and go back to 5W-50 mobil 1.
just doesn't seem to have the pressure to get the lifters to pump up with an oil pump thats done 270 000 kms

[Dave M]

Same

I've never tried a 40 weight, but have had good luck with the 5W-50 M1.

[Jon K]

Yep, any thinner than 10w50 or so and I have a little noise that is not only audible but sometimes shows up as false knock.

10w50 or 15w50 is all my engine sees now.

[repenttokyo]

I was on my way to pickup some 15w50 today when halfway through the trip the ticking miraculously subsided to normal high mileage engine sounds. I will see tomorrow if it is back or not.

Is this ticking hurting my engine?

[repenttokyo]

Yep, any thinner than 10w50 or so and I have a little noise that is not only audible but sometimes shows up as false knock.

10w50 or 15w50 is all my engine sees now.


What weirds me out is that I ran 5w40 for the previous 5000 km with no issues. Any ideas as to why it's suddenly a problem?

[rob101]

could be some sludge. maybe run an oil flush just before your next change. thats what I plan on doing.
Jon you mentioned using 10W-50, do you find that otherwise you get valve train noise on start up if you use lower than 10W for the winter grade.

Mine has sounded like a diesel on warm up when using 5W oils for quite a while.

[repenttokyo]

It could be sludge. I think the previous owner was running 5 or 10w30. The oil I took out of the motor was a bit blacker than I would have liked when 5w40 was put in the second time. Perhaps the 40 cleared out some of the sludge that was thickening things up.

[rob101]

It could be sludge. I think the previous owner was running 5 or 10w30. The oil I took out of the motor was a bit blacker than I would have liked when 5w40 was put in the second time. Perhaps the 40 cleared out some of the sludge that was thickening things up.
most likely, what could have happened is.

sludged oil system resistance has a high resistance to pumping and thus the higher viscosity is needed to maintain a higher pressure to get enough flow of oil into the lifters.

*puts in quality 40 weight less viscosity and less oil pressure (hence initial ticking because not enough pressure IF the system has the sludged resistance). BUT has new detergents which break up the sludge gradually. now less resistance means less pressure needed to get enough flow to pump up the lifters. so now 40 weigh is A-okay.

[ryan roopnarine]

running 5/10w30, thrusting up to 10w40 diesel when i run out of the aforementioned here in the oppressive florida sun and 90% humidity. high mileage m50. 30 weight shouldn't make it do anything, and ontario doesn't get that (relatively speaking) hot. sounds like something got flushed out of its hidey hole and needs to get cleaned out.

[repenttokyo]

ticking is coming back every once in a while. I am going to try a different weight of oil. I can't located 15w50 in Montreal. Would 5w50 be an acceptable substitute? Also, which would be better for a very cold climate (-40): 15w50 or 5w50 ?

[ryan roopnarine]

you need to clean it out first before you put new expensive oil in there and get your heart broken. if you change the oil yourself, try doing some 1600km or less oil changes on the cheapest xw40 or 50 weight that you are comfortable putting in there. i'd say try the 15w40 diesel oil for short bursts. if that doesn't fix it, i'd try to find a reeeall trusted chemical and clean it out. ticking hurts your car a great deal. stopgap measures that will only drown out the ticking or "fix" the problem with pressure are not the things you want to try initially.

[mikeythekidd]

Did ya check the dipstick? Not everyone looks up the crankase capicity on every car. The guy could've stuck 5 Qts. in there and called it good. I would think a Qt. low would cause the racket.

[repenttokyo]

dipstick was good, checked it twice after the oil was initially added and once yesterday.

[repenttokyo]

Could my oil pump be on the way out?

[ryan roopnarine]

as someone that ends up changing the oil on their m50 every six weeks (used atleast 4 cases of 40+30 wt oil in the e34 last year), i'd say no, your oil pump is probably not going out. either the fancy pants synthetic dislodged stuff that is now blocking a passage, or you had a gradual build up that required relatively thin 30 or 40 weight oil to "get past" and get into the places that needed lubrication. the timing of the tick with your oil change is too suspicious to be co-incidental. clean with 30+40 changed very often, chemical if you desire/are willing to risk, then seek out a fatter oil.

[Russell]

0w30 and 0w40 do not seem to be real suitable for M50s with "advanced" miles. Mine started getting a random idle tick when warm with 0w30 castrol syntec with about 4,500 miles on the fill. I changed to a blend of 10w40 (2 quarts) and 5w50 (4 quarts) castrol syntec and no more warm idle noise.

0w40 mobil 1 was just noisy. I just did not like it. Going to stay with heavier oils, especially in the summer.

[repenttokyo]

update: today i put in 15w50. The tick was still there, pretty loud. It would periodically disappear however. I then drain about half a quart of oil and put in half a quart of sea foam - i will see if that cleans anything out. The oil I took out of the engine was quite black already....

This is really strange. Just before the oil change I installed an EAT chip. Could the advanced timing have messed up my vavles or lifters?

[Blitzkrieg Bob]

multi grades thicken as the car warms up.

I'd give it some time before freaking out.

[repenttokyo]

I've driven it about 10 km's so far. Do you think that would be enough? It's been city / stop and go style.

I really appreciate everyone's help. It's upsetting that this has occured now, as I have a cross country road trip planned for August. If this tick is just an annoying sound, that's one thing. If it's something that is eventually going to implode my motor, that's another. I need to figure out which one it is.

[Ross]

If the oil got black very quickly then it sounds like the detergents are doing what they are supposed to. Or, you could be running overly rich. Has you fuel economy taken a dump concurrent with the chip?
Is it clean inside the rocker cover when you remove the cap?
Advanced timing won't screw up your valves.

[repenttokyo]

my fuel mileage has actually improved by about 2-3 mpg overal since, so I don't think it's overly rich.

Inside the rocker cover seems to have some sludge, I keep getting black solidish oil on the tip and sides of my funnel when i pull it out / move it around while changing the oil.

[Jon K]

If the oil got black very quickly then it sounds like the detergents are doing what they are supposed to. Or, you could be running overly rich. Has you fuel economy taken a dump concurrent with the chip?
Is it clean inside the rocker cover when you remove the cap?
Advanced timing won't screw up your valves.

Ross oil won't turn black from running overly rich - if he's running retarded rich the car would reek of fuel and would have gasoline in the oil (blow past the rings). It sounds like the oil is working and he's paranoid. I do hope you are running at least 91/92 octane OP?

[repenttokyo]

Ross oil won't turn black from running overly rich - if he's running retarded rich the car would reek of fuel and would have gasoline in the oil (blow past the rings). It sounds like the oil is working and he's paranoid. I do hope you are running at least 91/92 octane OP?


well it's working in the sense that it's lubricating my car, but it's not working in the sense that i still have a loud ticking sound, which is the symptom I am trying to cure.

I am not paranoid. ;)

I am running 93 octane.

[Jon K]

I mean you could simply have bad lifters. You are indicating 360km , thats a lot of mileage. I wouldn't be surprised if **** starts getting loud at that age.

[repenttokyo]

I mean you could simply have bad lifters. You are indicating 360km , thats a lot of mileage. I wouldn't be surprised if **** starts getting loud at that age.


there's a difference between the normal sounds of a high mileage engine, and the sudden appearance of a very loud tick immediately following an oil change. Having had the car since December, I am quite familiar with the normal sounds of it's operation.

I am aware that I could have a bad lifter. It could be many things. The diagnostic process is ongoing, which is why I continue to post in this thread.

Incidentally, the head was rebuilt at 200 000 km.

[Blitzkrieg Bob]

Continue with the de-sludging.

Try this trick used on other cars with OH hydrolic lifters.

bring the RPM up from idle to 1800-2000 RPM slowly a few times to clear the trapped air out of the lifters.

[Bill R.]

I put Mobil 1 0w40 in all my customers euro cars and haven't had any problems at all with it. M50,m30,m52,m52tu,m60,m70 , and i'm fairly certain that our ambient temps here are much higher than where your at. I also have valve covers off fairly often and haven't seen any signs of camshaft lobe wear which is one of the first places that would indicate if the oil was insufficient, Here's a birdseye view of a merc that i was working on today that i've been putting mobil one in since 0w40 came out. Cam lobes show no wear and everythings clean, no sludge. Can't say the same about the small block chevy that i worked on last week that spun the number 1 and 2 rod bearings running 20w50 though





0w30 and 0w40 do not seem to be real suitable for M50s with "advanced" miles. Mine started getting a random idle tick when warm with 0w30 castrol syntec with about 4,500 miles on the fill. I changed to a blend of 10w40 (2 quarts) and 5w50 (4 quarts) castrol syntec and no more warm idle noise.

0w40 mobil 1 was just noisy. I just did not like it. Going to stay with heavier oils, especially in the summer.

[ThoreauHD]

If I were in your position at that mileage with crap on my dipstick and visible sludge under the oil cap, I would focus on cleaning the engine before the tick turns into something worse. http://www.auto-rx.com/index.html. After cleaning it for 3K miles, I would stay 5w-40 redline/amsoil or 0w-40 mobile 1. Then if it persists I'd have a shop check it out for wear/damage. You have alot of miles on this car. Which is not bad, but you have to clean it like it's her first baptism.

And if all else fails..

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y106/toasty0z/prayermotivation.jpg

[Russell]

Just my experience. I just may have problems with my engine. UOA results have always shown high lead with 0w40 and 0w30 oil. For the 70,000 miles I have owned the car, oil and filter have been changed every 4,000 to 5,000 miles with mostly synthetic. PO followed the oil change lights which meant around 7,000 miles with conventional oil. Lead may just be residiul junk that is left over from 140,000 miles of use. Who knows??

Car has treated with Auto-RX engine cleaner twice to remove any sludge that might be there. Anyway, car seem to run fine.

[filip00]

the hydraulic valve lifters are used and need replacing. there are 24 of them on every m50 engine.

valve adjustment is not an option, these engines have automatic valve adjustment, hence the hydraulic valve lifters.

[repenttokyo]

Ok, I have an update: I ran 15w50 Mobil 1 with a half can of Seafoam for 1200 km's. The ticking was still there, but periodic. So yesterday, I added a can of CRC engine flush, ran the car for 5 mins under no load, and then dropped the oil. I changed the filter, and filled it with 5w50 Castrol Syntec - and 80 km's later, the ticking is STILL gone! So fingers crossed, this might be the solution.

[Barney Paull-Edwards]

No experience with BMW lifters but Toyota and GM Euro engines with high rev ability will not cope with pure synthetic oil, pressure drops and lifters tic at low revs.Toyota 4A-GE 1600 would not rev below 3k due to lifter problems but would rev to 10750, on wet sump(!) Go with Mobil 1 as it is thick enough to fill lifters but good enough to cope with oil film separation at high revs.

[John B.]

Our 95 525iT has about 140,000 miles on it & I've run Mobil 1 0w/40 ever since we bought it with no ticking issues.

[Russell]

John, I am interested in the oil change history of your car.

Mine had convetional oil changes, per the service lights-every 6,000 miles by the previous owner until I purchased it at 72,000 miles. I noticed a cold start rattle with heavier oils say 15w40 oil. Tried Mobil 1 for several changes. No cold start rattle, yet engine seemed noiser and UOA showed high lead. No warm iddle issues.

Finally tried 0w30 Castrol Syntec (german castrol). Started getting a warm idle rattle. Now my Brew of 2 quarts of 10w40 and 4 quarts of 5w50 does not have the warm rattle.

Even so, I think I will go with a 5w40 or 5w 50 next tiem as I think MY engine for some reason does not do well with a 0 weight oil. Perhps even a heavy 30 weight oil. Perhaps the oil pump is not working well at low rpm. ??? Anyway, just my experience.