Sway Bar Links... Subframe bushing debate

[Tiger]

Hey Guys,

I know you guys has been hunting up and down on what cause the loosey feeling in our E34... The most popular was the subframe bushings and the insert, but most people who done it seems to be unimpressed as the difference was not as dramatic as they thought.

I raised the question on whether any of you actually changed the sway bar links before doing any subframe work... seem like not too many of you did. I actually finished that project today... the front and the rear. On my car, they were originals and boy were they really bad. The old rears shows tremendous cracking and when you pull on it, you will see how much bigger that crack gets.

The front links were tricky to get out... You really do need two floor jacks to do the job with ease... one to jack up the car... the other one to jack up the lower control arm to release the tension and set it so the new one can slip in. You also need offset box wrench to get the upper nut out... socket won't work and neither is regular combination wrench.

[Tiger]

The rear is a bit tricker... although easier... Upper bolt is easy to take out and you just lift up the sway bar to release the tension to pull out the bolt. The other side is the hard part... it basically slips onto the sway bar but you really need leverage to get them out... pry bars really helps here. Putting the new one on this same hole is well.... it is like trying to push a 1/2" bar into a 3/16" hole... Use car wash soap (undiluted) and enlarge the hole to 3/8" with drill... the actual hole will be like 1/4" instead as rubber do not really drill out... Then it will slip in with extra effort.

The end result? The car went from sloppy, clumsy, unsettling and clunky feel to solid glued to road feel. It even took away the nasty bang sound I have whenever I hit a pothole on front right wheel.

[Tiger]

I still have the subframe insert that I bought from Bruno... I am wondering if I should install it.

[repenttokyo]

The front links were tricky to get out... You really do need two floor jacks to do the job with ease... one to jack up the car... the other one to jack up the lower control arm to release the tension and set it so the new one can slip in. You also need offset box wrench to get the upper nut out... socket won't work and neither is regular combination wrench.

I did this job last week. It was TOTAL HELL to get at the nut on the top of the end link. I eventually ended up using 2 wiggle extensions and a 90 degree elbow 17 mm socket. It was such a pain that I only did one side, going to do the other one this week, trying a new method. It also didn't solve my clunking problem on that side of the car :(

What is an offset box wrench?

I was deceived by the bmwe34.net description of how easy this job is. Nothing in their tech article is actually in any way helpful in terms of telling you how to replace this part. Certainly not a 15 minute job - and 2 jacks, or at least, a jack and a jack stand are definitely necessary.

[Tiger]

Here is the HarborFreight one... the link I putting here is SAE... you need metric version.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=32041

You need to do both side to get rid of the clunking noise. The other clunking noise is your steering system... my idler arm is defiinitely moving... also are my tie rods... I would change all this to eliminate all clunking.

Ya, I know what you mean... I spent like an hour figuring out how to get that bastard out... the other side only took me 15 minutes. The offset wrench makes all the difference.

Also, the ratcheting wrench speeds things up but final tightening requires the offset wrench.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=94315

Front is 17mm and rear is 13mm.

[repenttokyo]

Both sides, really? The clunking is only from the front left wheel.

[Tiger]

Think about it... it is linked to both side by the sway bar... if one side is bad, it will clunk.

Check your steering system when you jack up one side with wheel attached... grab at 9 and 3 o'clock and rock it back and forth... if you feel the clunking, then your steering is also bad.

Grabbing at 12 and 6 o'clock, if you got play there... you will also feel the clunking.

[BigKriss]

I find the front swaybar links to be very easy. I use a 17mm socket on the upper nut with a wrench also as for the delrin subframe inserts, what are you waiting for?

[repenttokyo]

I find the front swaybar links to be very easy. I use a 17mm socket on the upper nut with a wrench also as for the delrin subframe inserts, what are you waiting for?

I didn't have a single socket that would fit on the upper nut AND leave me enough room to attach a driver. And when you put a wrench on it, there is no space to turn - hence the need to either use the box wrench, or a small small driver, or wiggle extensions. It's really not an easy job. What size driver did you use?

[Tiger]

Yeah, I am not sure how BigKriss does it... I thought I got the widest selections of tools to try. I couldn't find my shortest extension... which is about 2" total... I think with 2" total extension, it might be possible but then again, I couldn't find two of them... geez! I had two and can't find them both.

[BigKriss]

hmmm still sounds easy for me, I mean I can get the rachet in there. For the top nut on the swaybar link, I will post some pictures tomorrow. :( Silly me, a while ago I didn't tighten it hard enough and the balljoint on the top nut went in three days.

Tiger - Who are these people you talk about when they tell you that they don't notice much difference with the derlin inserts installed?

[BigKriss]

I found removing the rear swaybar to be easy. maybe you should try some larger swaybars?


The rear is a bit tricker... although easier... Upper bolt is easy to take out and you just lift up the sway bar to release the tension to pull out the bolt. The other side is the hard part... it basically slips onto the sway bar but you really need leverage to get them out... pry bars really helps here. Putting the new one on this same hole is well.... it is like trying to push a 1/2" bar into a 3/16" hole... Use car wash soap (undiluted) and enlarge the hole to 3/8" with drill... the actual hole will be like 1/4" instead as rubber do not really drill out... Then it will slip in with extra effort.

The end result? The car went from sloppy, clumsy, unsettling and clunky feel to solid glued to road feel. It even took away the nasty bang sound I have whenever I hit a pothole on front right wheel.

[BigKriss]

The first one in a rachet type would be better though. You don't need this though. unnecessary


Here is the HarborFreight one... the link I putting here is SAE... you need metric version.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=32041

You need to do both side to get rid of the clunking noise. The other clunking noise is your steering system... my idler arm is defiinitely moving... also are my tie rods... I would change all this to eliminate all clunking.

Ya, I know what you mean... I spent like an hour figuring out how to get that bastard out... the other side only took me 15 minutes. The offset wrench makes all the difference.

Also, the ratcheting wrench speeds things up but final tightening requires the offset wrench.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=94315

Front is 17mm and rear is 13mm.

[Tiger]

The bruno suframe inserts people noticed something... however, I don't think they even changed the sway bar links.

The subframe bushings... that is like majority of people don't notice that much of a change... it is all in the archives and all debated. You can go look up their names.

[Tiger]

As far as the socket on the upper... I had the smallest head socket wrench and still could not seat the socket properly onto the nut... My swaybar llink nut has a tapered edge so it is very important to get it seated all the way or the socket wrench will slip off and round them out.

Which is probably why your links went crazy as you didn't tighten enough.

I find the offset wrench did it with zero problem. You can speed up the work by using the ratcheting combo wrench after you loosen it enough. Also, on the back side, yiou need another wrench or visegrip to hold the ball joint to prevent it from rotating.

[repenttokyo]

i just rounded mine out on the right side :( Tried using a small driver. Gonna pick up some offset wrenches tomorrow - there were none available in my area last night :(

[94_e34_525i]

I must have been lucky when I changed my front links, cuz it wasnt to difficult. All i had to do is get both front tires off the ground so there wasnt any load, then used a 17mm Hazet wrench, which remarkably was made for this job cuz it was thin enough to hold the balljoint/bolt in place while i loosend it with a socket. I definitly felt a difference tho highly recomend changing them.

[Tiger]

Did you change your rear links too? LOL Ahh,,, you reminded me of my other combination wrench set that I didn't use... the SK long combo wrench... thin at the box end... but didn't use it... I think that would have worked too.

[repenttokyo]

cut the bolts off the right front today, and checked out the rear links, they need to be done too.

[Russell]

mine reduced wander a bit. However, they were harsher over sharp edge bumps.