Engine makes a whistling sound :S

[pgrindstaff]

Today I was driving and everything seemed fine. I guess I was slowing down or stopped at a light when my engine started idling rough and making a whistling noise. At first I thought maybe the fan clutch was going and was making the noise since it stopped when I accelerated and started back when I let off the gas. Well, I got home, fired up Carsoft and got the cel code which says 70 Lambda probe or knock-sensor 1 (detination sensor). I was poking around a bit on the forums after I pulled the code and it appears that if this is actually the problem, I need four of these sensors. Another thing to note, the exhaust smells lean, and blew out white smoke when I pulled out of my garage.

While waiting for carsoft to do its thing and pull the codes I stuck my head under the hood and decided that the noise couldn't possibly be the fan clutch but must be something else, unfortunately, I don't know what that something else is. So, to help with diagnosis, I have taken a crappy cell phone video and uploaded it to youtube.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o0k9YvbBjM

Hopefully this helps somewhat, and TIA
-Patrick

[Evan]

very interesting... has the PCV plate ever been replaced?

the knock sensors sit on top of the block underneath the intake and between the cylinder banks...

[Blitzkrieg Bob]

IT'S TEA TIME

be a dear and take the kettle off the burner love.

[Evan]

also: the knock sensors are expensive and i've never heard of one going bad... they cost about $80 each

[pgrindstaff]

According to the records that I have, no, the PCV plate has not been replaced.

[Evan]

the only time i've heard of a whistling sound is when the PCV plate goes bad... the white smoke is an indicator of oil being burned, no?

my uneducated guess is intake gaskets and pcv... a simple, inexpensive job

[pgrindstaff]

Thanks Evan, I'll take a look at both and will go from there. Unfortunately, having this problem on Friday makes it quite difficult to get any parts and especially difficult when Monday I start classes.

Thanks again

[Evan]

let me give you some more free advice:

check out your cats... if they're stuffed, they'll cause your motor to run hotter and lead to failure in the long run...

check for leaks in your master cylinder and power steering res... fix them asap if they exist

the intake gaskets/pcv can wait a week.. but don't let it go if there's a problem... you can do them yourself in a day.. parts will be ~$150

[pgrindstaff]

My dad just got home and listened to the awful noise my car makes and thinks that it could possibly be a bearing. Could the water pump bearing cause that sound? What other bearings could be the source? I am not saying that it is definately a bearing but could it be a possibility? The test tomorrow will be loosening the belt on the water pump and see if the noise continues.

Thanks for the advice, I'll definately check everything out. Worse comes to worse, I'll be taking the dreaded trip to the dealer and let them rip me off to tell me what else is wrong.

BTW, the white smoke did not continue, it was very brief, but did not smell normal.

[Bin_jammin]

My dad just got home and listened to the awful noise my car makes and thinks that it could possibly be a bearing. Could the water pump bearing cause that sound? What other bearings could be the source? I am not saying that it is definately a bearing but could it be a possibility? The test tomorrow will be loosening the belt on the water pump and see if the noise continues.

Thanks for the advice, I'll definately check everything out. Worse comes to worse, I'll be taking the dreaded trip to the dealer and let them rip me off to tell me what else is wrong.

BTW, the white smoke did not continue, it was very brief, but did not smell normal.


To start, remove your belts and then start the car. If you don't have any more noise, add belts one at a time until you find the noise. If you still have the noise, you've isolated it to the engine. I've heard distributors go bad and make similar noises, I don't know if the m60 has one or not, but a similar type bearing failure would make that type of noise. Also, check your torque converter to flywheel bolts to see if they're tight. Put a rubber pad on a jack and put a bit of load on your exhaust. Try a lot of different things, but mainly see what the general area it's coming from is, report back with findings.

[pgrindstaff]

After further inspection today I determined that my cats are bad. Per instructions from another forum, i tapped on the cats with a hammer and heard the rattling of the honneycomb. I hadn't started the car yet so decided to start it up and drive it around the block. Idle was still rough but there was no sound. When I got on the road there was a ton of white smoke when I got on it which is not good. And as I pulled in the driveway the whistling started back. So there's just bad news all around, pretty much need a whole new exhaust and there is still something wrong with the engine. I guess at this point it is gonna be best for me to get the dealership involved and let them give me the bad news. I have a feeling fixing this car is going to cost much more than it is worth, which really sucks. I'll let you guys know what the verdict is hopefully tuesday, until then, thanks for the help.

-patrick

[Evan]

that white smoke is probably coolant being burned... the pcv plate is not functioning and it's letting oil into the intake... i'd bet $100 bucks on it

exhaust is cheap.. no biggie... don't go to the dealer yet

[pgrindstaff]

Ok, I'll hold out on the dealer. Bavauto has a Crankcase Ventilation Non-Return Valve (PCV) Repair Kit. Is that what I need or should I call BMA and get the pcv plate from them? The kit from bavauto includes:

11 61 1 729 728 Intake Manifold Gasket
11 61 7 501 562 Intake Manifold Rear Cover - with oil separator valve.

If that is what I need i'll get that ordered monday and put it on thursday or friday. Oh, are there some good instructions on how to change the pcv plate? I looked through my bentley and all it did was mention it.

Thanks for your help.

[Evan]

there is a comprehensive list of parts and great instructions around here somewhere... you're going to change the PCV plate and gasket.. the throttle body gasket... intake gaskets (4 pieces)

BMW is probably your best bet in terms of service and price and I think they'll be able to ship them to you quickly. Check and see.

I just noticed your mileage again... I'm wondering if you should have the dealer perform a leakdown/compression test before you do anything else. The test will give you a good idea of what type of condition your motor is in...

You don't want to go spending $100s in parts if it isn't necessary and/or prudent.

[whiskychaser]

My dad just got home and listened to the awful noise my car makes and thinks that it could possibly be a bearing.
Tell your dad I for one agree. Use a VERY long screwdriver with the sharp end away from your ear and use it like a stethoscrope. Should help you identify the problem area. Keep the screwdriver/you away from any bits that move. Noises are a pain to track down so wish you luck

[pgrindstaff]

Found this list in another post, looks like I need a bit more than the bavauto kit, http://www.bimmer.info/forum/showpost.php?p=246354&postcount=1

whiskeychaser: Thanks for the idea, I might give that a try this afternoon. I must say however that I really hope it is just the pcv plate and intake gaskets.

[Ross]

Your noise sounds like a accessory bearing to me as well. Take Bin's advice by removing the belt. Anything that makes this much noise will probably wobble like mad and be very noticeable just turning by hand, no need to reinstall belts.
As for the smoke, well, a potentially failed water pump and white smoke are usually omens of a failed head gasket.
Good luck.

[632 Regal]

dont forget the front plate gasket, i replaced my intake and pcv plate but didnt think about the front plate gasket which now leaks and whistles throwing the lamda code also.


Found this list in another post, looks like I need a bit more than the bavauto kit, http://www.bimmer.info/forum/showpost.php?p=246354&postcount=1

whiskeychaser: Thanks for the idea, I might give that a try this afternoon. I must say however that I really hope it is just the pcv plate and intake gaskets.

[Evan]

i've been thinking about this and i recommend you stop by the dealer and tell him you're a local student and you have this car and you ened a leakdown/compression test... see what kind of price he'll give you.. and try to negotiate it down a little bit... get to know him.. take him a pint of Absolut or something

then go talk to the parts guy and tell him you will be needing a bunch of parts and get to know him... another pint of whiskey..

get to know them better and you'll have a better chance of being able to pick their brains

[pgrindstaff]

Haha, good idea. I actually did go ahead and set up and appointment at the dealership for tomorrow morning because there are so many different possibilities. I am not sure I can offer them alcohol or anything tho, kinda hard to get any when you're 19. I'll definately see what I can do though by making friends with the parts and service guys.

Thank you all for your help, I'll definately let you know what the dealer says tomorrow.

[BMWDriver]

Have you noticed if the car only whistles when a hot chick goes by your car? ;)

[whiskychaser]

I am not sure I can offer them alcohol or anything tho, kinda hard to get any when you're 19.
Think I had my first pint when I was 12 and I was in my school uniform. My dad had told me beer was made from crushed beetles. Think he may have been right about that stuff:)

[pgrindstaff]

Have you noticed if the car only whistles when a hot chick goes by your car? ;)

Hah, that'd be a cool trick. Unfortunately, it only whistles when I let off the gas and sometimes at idle.

[Ross]

Hah, that'd be a cool trick. Unfortunately, it only whistles when I let off the gas and sometimes at idle.
That sounds like an intake leak.

[pgrindstaff]

Ok, I brought my car to the dealer this morning to let them have a look at it and am now back with the results. As expected there were multiple things wrong such as i need new belts, water pump gasket, and intake manifold seals. In the usual dealership fashion, they wanted to charge me an arm and a leg for labor for everything, so I asked about parts. Again, they were high on everything. Just an example, $260 for the waterpump and $80 for the belts.

Now, the noise that is being made is infact the pcv, he said it was a vaccuum leak in the manifold so I got it clarified it was the pcv. The mechanic I talked to said my car doesn't have a pcv per se but does have a combustion valve. I guess its basically the same thing.

The plan at this point is to do all this work myself. The water pump and belts are pretty easy, the things I am having trouble finding is the parts I need for the intake manifold and pcv. I think the link I pasted a few posts up had more parts than I am looking to replace. Also, does anyone know if there is a writeup for this? I guess in the bentley its probably the section about removing the manifold.

Thank you all for your help. Hopefully I can get these parts ordered tonight or tomorrow and get them here by friday so I have the weekend to work on everything. Oh, one more thing, how much more work is it to replace the valve cover gasket? It is seeping oil so if it isnt too difficult I could go ahead and do that as well.

The mechanic also said that the knock sensor is what threw the cel, which I already knew. He said it was most likely bad because of the code being inconclusive or something. He also said the only way to find out if it was good was to fix the intake problem

-Patrick

[pgrindstaff]

dont forget the front plate gasket, i replaced my intake and pcv plate but didnt think about the front plate gasket which now leaks and whistles throwing the lamda code also.

Do you have a part number for this? Cant find it on bavauto or bma.

Also, found a couple of links to instructions and the part list i found earlier is just what i need munus the front plate gasket

[Bin_jammin]

Are you located in the northeast US? If so I might well be able to lend a hand with repairs.

[pgrindstaff]

Are you located in the northeast US? If so I might well be able to lend a hand with repairs.

Actually I am in Georgia, so southeast. Thanks for the offer though, any help is better than none ;)

[Barney Paull-Edwards]

the only time i've heard of a whistling sound is when the PCV plate goes bad... the white smoke is an indicator of oil being burned, no?

my uneducated guess is intake gaskets and pcv... a simple, inexpensive job
White smoke-unburnt diesel,water vapour.
Black smoke-excess fuel.
Blue smoke-oil.
Any more???

[repenttokyo]

White smoke-unburnt diesel,water vapour.
Black smoke-excess fuel.
Blue smoke-oil.
Any more???


Red smoke = burning rubber as seen through a police cruiser's flashing lights.

[pgrindstaff]

Ok, here's my list so far. If you notice anything missing please let me know, I plan on ordering all of this tomorrow:

11611729728 VictorReinz --> PCV Plate Gasket
EGR Valve Gasket; Intake Manifold to Rear Cover Plate

11611747085 BMW (OE) --> PCV Plate Cap
EGR Valve Gasket; Plug/Cap for Rear Cover Port

11617501562 BMW (OE) --> so called "PCV Plate"
EGR Valve; Rear Cover with Non-Return Valve

11611729727 VictorReinz
Intake Manifold Gasket; Front Intake Manifold to Throttle Housing

11611433328 VictorReinz/Gloeckler
Intake Manifold Gasket; Intake Manifold to Cylinder Head

11151736140 VictorReinz
Intake Manifold Gasket; Rear Intake Manifold Cover O-Ring; 20x3.55mm

13411733217 BMW (OE)
PCV Valve Grommet; Grommet for Ventilation Valve and Idle Control Valve

11129069872 ElringKlinger/Meistersatz/VictorReinz
Valve Cover Gasket Set; Left - Cylinders 5-8

11129069871 ElringKlinger/Meistersatz/VictorReinz
Valve Cover Gasket Set; Right - Cylinders 1-4

11121437395 Gloeckler/VictorReinz
Valve Cover Grommet Gasket; Valve Cover Nut Seal (22)

11611736648 BMW (OE) Intake Manifold Bushing
Spacer Bushing for Intake Manifold (10)

Meyle Water pump w/gasket. My other options are Hepu and Graf which are more expensive, what do you recommend?

BMA part BMW029051 Continental Serpentine Belt A/C5PK980 BELT-MULTI RIB

BMA part 035724 Serpentine Belt Alternator7PK1580 BELT-MULTI RIB (for alternator, ps, fan correct?)

I also am thinking about replacing the knock sensor that is bad but do I really need to replace all four? I'd hate to do this and find out I need to replace the knock sensor(s) but 4 cost a few pretty pennies.

The only part I don't think I have in there is the gasket Jeff mentioned, if that part is in there cool, if not, part number? Should I buy replacement torx screws? I think the rubber cap is also in that list which someone mentioned here http://www.bimmer.info/forum/showthread.php?t=31926&page=2 post 15. If there is anything else please let me know, I am going to have these parts ordered and shipped 2day so I can tackle this job this weekend.

-Patrick

[pgrindstaff]

ALright, ordered all the parts in that list from BMW with the help of Peter. He said people generally only replace one knock sensor at a time so that what I'm gonna do.

The plan this weekend is to replace the belts, water pump, valve cover gasket, intake gasket, and the pcv. I have a pretty full weekend so far, hopefully with the instructions I found it will make the process a little less painfull. If there's anything I forgot I will just hope that the dealership has the parts.

Thanks for everyone's help, I can't tell you how much I appreciate it.

-Patrick

[AngryPopTart]

Oh my... I wonder if this is my problem. For as long as I can remember, my car will sometimes (usually when very cold) make an odd whistling noise. It can be while applying throttle or letting off, but the whistle jumps up and down with the shifts or I suppose the RPM. If it's doing it's thing and making the noise, I can be braking to a stop and everytime the tranny downshifts, the noise rises a little bit and works down with each shift. I think you can barely hear this noise while it is just idling, but it's difficult.

I had a spark plug (yes one of the generic Bosch plugs which ALWAYS do this, if only I had known beforehand) come apart in #6 and after that, #6 always fouled out really bad. It got crusted up really bad after two days of regular driving, so bad that it would bridge the electrode and not fire. I had to removie it, scrape the crud off of it with my swiss army knife and swap it with a different plug every couple days. One time I pulled a plug out of #6 during this ritual and found it had a crack up the porcelin so I thankfully got that little guy out of there before this happened again. But the engine developed some other problem; it got oil in the water. Eventually the hoses got soft and fat and one of the hoses on the heater core popped. Nothing abnormal had happened. I just got to work, opened the hood to look everything over as I usually do and noticed it had popped lightly and there was oatmeal all over it. Then I opened the radiator cap and oatmeal started belching out of it. (though the car didn't actually overheat)

Anyway, we replaced the engine from a good running 525i manual which had a completely messed up interior, and the car doesn't have that problem on #6 of course, but the idle is still cruddy, like before. When starting it up in the morning, it jumps up and down as the computer tries to compensate, I suppose. Even after the idle settles (which takes 5-10 seconds), if I try to rev it up, it will rev up like a car that's dropping a cylinder and then it will eventually catch up and the rev will be smooth. Now that it's getting back into the very cold season (which is when I heard this whilsting sound the most) that whistling sound is back more often than in the summer months, but goes away after the car warms up. I still have the dead spot off idle, too. It has become natural for me to give any car throttle very slowly because in this car it will lug down and then jump up to normal if I give it throttle at even what would be average in another car. GRRR!!!

So I hope my problem is just this dumb PCV plate. I don't remember if my Paps left my intake manifold setup from my original motor in there or not. If he did, I'll find out if he dismantled the PCV plate at all. Of course, one of the first things I noticed after driving it around with the new engine was that one of the metal slip-in fittings by the throttle was partially out and I pressed it in by levering on it with a big screwdriver... but now I wonder if those things are all sealing correctly. What do you guys do to make those press in fittings seal? (there's four of those little guys, aren't there?)