View Full Version : Got the intake gaskets done, now another problem
pgrindstaff
08-26-2007, 07:36 PM
Ok, I got my intake gaskets, pcv, water pump, and belts done this weekend. Unforunately next weekend I have to pull off the intake again because there is an air leak and I simply dont have time to pull it tonight as I need my car tomorrow. What a difference, no more annoying noise, which was caused by a hole in the vacuum hose on the pcv that connects to the fuel rail...$465 to fix a $2.00 part, nice. Anyway, now I have another problem. ASC and ABS are now screwed up somehow. I have a feeling that it has either something to do with the vacuum leak at the intake or a problem with the throttle sensor. Carsoft says Throttle Valve Signal but I dont know what that means. I am not sure if it is the sensor just before the bend on the throttle body or the one lower towards the end at the intake. I don't have the slightest idea where to start troubleshooting this so any input is appreciated. I have pics of the whole job so if anyone is interested I'll throw em up sometime this week.
-Patrick
winfred
08-26-2007, 08:01 PM
you probably mixed up the wires at the throttle body, theres 3 3 wire plugs with in a couple inches and they will cross plug, the gray one goes to the icv, the one with a clip goes to the main throttle position switch, the other black one without a protruding clip goes to the traction control position switch
632 Regal
08-26-2007, 08:19 PM
lol been there done that... quite annoying that they all interchange
you probably mixed up the wires at the throttle body, theres 3 3 wire plugs with in a couple inches and they will cross plug, the gray one goes to the icv, the one with a clip goes to the main throttle position switch, the other black one without a protruding clip goes to the traction control position switch
pgrindstaff
08-27-2007, 08:40 AM
I know I have the gray clip in correctly, but both of the black connectors have clips. One of them seems to be a spring loaded clip that I have plugged in at the bottom close to the manifold. The clip on the other connector is one you have to pry out with a screw driver to get loose. If you could, please clarify which is the main throttle position switch and which is the traction control position switch. When I get a chance I'll go switch them and see if it fixes the problem.
winfred & jeff hit it on the head... you just have the wires crossed
there is a plug that you place on the PCV plate (on the driver's side of the plate)
did you put it there?
pgrindstaff
08-27-2007, 10:35 AM
Are you talking about the big rubber plug that would be on the new pcv and not the old and the smaller rubber plug that goes just above that, opposite of where the s-tube connects to the fuel rail? If so, yes, I got the big plug but am re-using the smaller one from the old pcv as I didn't know I needed it.
BTW, I just looked on realoem and both sensors are called Throttle Valve Switches.
<start unrelated information> :)
I was just thinking at lunch how it would be nice if when they engineered the intake they had slotted the head so the gaskets fit in there instead of trying to lower the intake manifold with the gaskets on it and hoping that they dont fall off. What gets me is that we had to lift the manifold back up because the front right gasket fell off but it still isnt sealing. Oh well, live and learn.
My dad and I didn't do such a bad job for just printing out some instructions and various diagrams and jumping right in. It is tedious work and takes some patience due to everything being in there so tight, especially those injector harnesses, there is not a lot of play in those which makes it a pain. One thing we should have done is just replace the ac compressor while everything was apart, it is the next thing to go. Probably shoulda ponied up and bought all 4 knock sensors too, the rubber is cracking around all of them where they bolt on. Another tight spot was the bottom water pump bolt. The damn thing is right behind the flywheel making it quite difficult to get a wrench on it to get it off, and even harder to get back in the hole.
All in all I am glad we did this job though. I am not particularly mechanically inclined when it comes to working on cars but am really interested in how it all works and how everything goes together. There is no way we could have done the job without all of your help, experience, and devotion of time to writeup the instrucions.
winfred & jeff hit it on the head... you just have the wires crossed
there is a plug that you place on the PCV plate (on the driver's side of the plate)
did you put it there?
winfred
08-27-2007, 11:45 AM
the plug with the pry out clip goes on the tps closest to the airfilter, thats the traction control butterfly
IT sounds like you did a good job.
On the intake gaskets -- use something sticky (silicone.. hylomar... something that won't harm the gasket) to hold them in place so that they don't fall out when you're lowering the manifold...
The bottom water pump bolt is behind the vibration damper... you can get to it with a small 10mm box end wrench.. it takes a little time and effort but it isn't so bad
The knock sensors are expensive.. either reinsulate them yourself or take them to an electronics shop and have them done there...
Are you positive one of the intake gaskets isn't twisted and causing the vacuum leak?
pgrindstaff
08-27-2007, 12:15 PM
...Are you positive one of the intake gaskets isn't twisted and causing the vacuum leak?
Twisted in the middle between the two ovals? I am almost positive they are not twisted as when it fell off I stuck my hand under the intake and placed it back on. I thought I put it back on properly but anything is possible.
One thing I couldn't find a definitive answer on was the torque value for the manifold. The number I found was 11±1 ft/lb. Can anyone confirm this?
the plug with the pry out clip goes on the tps closest to the airfilter, thats the traction control butterfly
Ok, you just confirmed that I have them plugged in correctly. I suppose the next thing to do is see if there is power to that connector, hopefully there is as I don't even want to think how hard that would be to replace. If there is power I guess the next thing to do would be to replace that sensor?
give me your email address and ill send you the Bentley manual in pdf format
pgrindstaff
08-27-2007, 12:35 PM
give me your email address and ill send you the Bentley manual in pdf format
Have it, thanks though. The reason I ask is I took a look at the TIS and it gave different numbers, dont remember if they were higher or lower. Thanks though. this weekend I'll be pulling the intake off again and try to fix the leak. After driving with the gasket potentially twisted or seated incorrectly for a week, do you think I should buy another?.
Thanks to everyone else for your help.
at this point, you're going to double-check everything and see if you can isolate the leak.. i would check the pcv plate first and make sure there isn't an open hole on it that needs a plug
check and double check everything before you pull the intake again... and if the gasket hasn't been damaged you can reuse it. ask winfred what he uses to keep the gasket seated while he lowers the intake into place...
Bentley says 11 ft-lbs of torque for intake manifold to head
pgrindstaff
08-27-2007, 01:10 PM
at this point, you're going to double-check everything and see if you can isolate the leak.. i would check the pcv plate first and make sure there isn't an open hole on it that needs a plug
check and double check everything before you pull the intake again... and if the gasket hasn't been damaged you can reuse it. ask winfred what he uses to keep the gasket seated while he lowers the intake into place...
Bentley says 11 ft-lbs of torque for intake manifold to head
We are 99% positive that the leak is at cylinders 1 and 2 in the intake. We took a spray bottle and sprayed around the area and can hear it sucking the water. Also, if we shove a shop rag in that area the sound is dampened. I'll check everything again and make sure all the hoses and caps are on tight. Oh, and winfred, what do you recommend using to keep those gaskets on the intake?
good job finding it.. your motor will hum once you straighten out the details
pgrindstaff
08-28-2007, 08:56 AM
Since I am 100% positive that the sensors are plugged in correctly the next step is testing the sensor itself and the wiring. For those you with the bentley e-book I am looking on page 176, repair group 130-8. The description of the tps here makes it sound like the sensor I would be testing in the one closer to the intake. I would also guess that the procedure is the same for testing both. Please let me know if this is correct. (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=4Ah&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=procedure+&spell=1)
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