Wtf?! Water Pump?

[nirvana19]

WOW, my car COMPLETELY died on me for the first time. I was driving at 6:30 AM yesterday, not too far from my house, with the windows down (had just started driving) and I see my ABS light come on and smell something burning. Uh, oh, start to pull over immediately but its a long stretch of road. 20 seconds later as i'm about to pull over "COOLANT TEMPERATURE", I say oh crap, put car in neutral and knock off engine IMMEDIATELY and pull to the side. Pop hood and naturally, a LOT of steam coming from the engine. Step out to see a puddle of green forming under the passenger side of the car (I know it should be blue, I was about to flush/change the coolant literally tomorrow). Look into engine bay, Drive belt seems shredded (not broken yet but stripepd to half its width and pulled off water pump pulley). Couldn't find where the coolant was leaking from, and I was stranded in the middle of the road. Water Pump replaced BY DEALER a year ago, I have all the receipts from previous owner. I know this sounds like a case of poor maintenance but the car has been consistently maintained for virtually its entire life and I have the records to show it. The only thing that looks wrong is the green coolant and the hoses haven't been replaced for two years (belts just replaced). The only thing that makes sense is Water Pump locks, belt slides off pulley but keeps spinning alternator, some sort of back pressure or heat or something blows a hose off somewhere?? Is this just bad luck or did I do something wrong? Car had to be towed to a shop by AAA to Autowerke in Rockville, MD because I had to go to st. marys city for the day :( :(

[aston_jag_tech]

WOW, my car COMPLETELY died on me for the first time. I was driving at 6:30 AM yesterday, not too far from my house, with the windows down (had just started driving) and I see my ABS light come on and smell something burning. Uh, oh, start to pull over immediately but its a long stretch of road. 20 seconds later as i'm about to pull over "COOLANT TEMPERATURE", I say oh crap, put car in neutral and knock off engine IMMEDIATELY and pull to the side. Pop hood and naturally, a LOT of steam coming from the engine. Step out to see a puddle of green forming under the passenger side of the car (I know it should be blue, I was about to flush/change the coolant literally tomorrow). Look into engine bay, Drive belt seems shredded (not broken yet but stripepd to half its width and pulled off water pump pulley). Couldn't find where the coolant was leaking from, and I was stranded in the middle of the road. Water Pump replaced BY DEALER a year ago, I have all the receipts from previous owner. I know this sounds like a case of poor maintenance but the car has been consistently maintained for virtually its entire life and I have the records to show it. The only thing that looks wrong is the green coolant and the hoses haven't been replaced for two years (belts just replaced). The only thing that makes sense is Water Pump locks, belt slides off pulley but keeps spinning alternator, some sort of back pressure or heat or something blows a hose off somewhere?? Is this just bad luck or did I do something wrong? Car had to be towed to a shop by AAA to Autowerke in Rockville, MD because I had to go to st. marys city for the day :( :(

Same thing happened. ABS, ALTERNATOR, HAND BRAKE, and some other lights came on when the water pump belt shredded. Can you manually move the water pump?

[Ross]

Water pump bearing(and seal) has failed.

[JMI]

... Look into engine bay, Drive belt seems shredded (not broken yet but stripepd to half its width and pulled off water pump pulley).

The only thing that looks wrong is the green coolant and the hoses haven't been replaced for two years (belts just replaced).
Who replaced the belts? Sounds as though they may have been set too tight, leading to bearing failure.

Jim

[Dave M]

Who replaced the belts? Sounds as though they may have been set too tight, leading to bearing failure.

Jim

Is it possible to over-tighten a belt on the M30? M50 has an hydraulic tensioner. Belt too small maybe? Either way, check every accesory, puly, idler the belt contacts. I'm with Ross though, from what you've said, most likely water pump and seal.

Dave

[Sam-Son]

I've seen High performance water pumps for sale. What do these do? will they be better at keeping my car from overheating?

[Dave M]

I've seen High performance water pumps for sale. What do these do? will they be better at keeping my car from overheating?

Big question is............does your car overheat now? If no, unless you plan on putting your e34 through the ringer by towing or racing around town in stop and go traffic, a good 'stock', non-plastic impellered pump will do fine. Additional water flow under normal conditions will do no more than keep your thermostat closed longer.

My 2 nuts,

Dave

[Sam-Son]

Big question is............does your car overheat now? If no, unless you plan on putting your e34 through the ringer by towing or racing around town in stop and go traffic, a good 'stock', non-plastic impellered pump will do fine. Additional water flow under normal conditions will do no more than keep your thermostat closed longer.

My 2 nuts,

Dave
No I have zero reliability problems with my car despite the fact that I drive around like my hair is on fire. The needle is just the slightest bit to the right of the center but...

[Jon K]

Don't go with Stewart Warner pumps that claim 30% more flow etc. Its cheaper and more logical to replace a $60 pump 3 times than replace a single $200 pump. I don't buy the "more flow" stuff. Not worth it IMHO

[Bin_jammin]

Don't go with Stewart Warner pumps that claim 30% more flow etc. Its cheaper and more logical to replace a $60 pump 3 times than replace a single $200 pump. I don't buy the "more flow" stuff. Not worth it IMHO

Not when you factor in the cost of replacing a head gasket.

[Jon K]

Not when you factor in the cost of replacing a head gasket.

$110?

[Sam-Son]

Look the only reason I want to get a high performance water pump is to keep my car running extra cool and to ensure I'll never have to worry about over heating

[Jon K]

Look the only reason I want to get a high performance water pump is to keep my car running extra cool and to ensure I'll never have to worry about over heating

Yeah but:

1) proper cooling system won't over heat... it was designed to handle your motors output

2) I have friends with that water pump who have had it fail

Think about it - somehow I have a freaking nuclear reactor under my hood. Hottest water temp I see pushing it hardcore is 204F. All stock components for cooling.

[Bin_jammin]

Yeah but:

1) proper cooling system won't over heat... it was designed to handle your motors output

2) I have friends with that water pump who have had it fail

Think about it - somehow I have a freaking nuclear reactor under my hood. Hottest water temp I see pushing it hardcore is 204F. All stock components for cooling.


I'd go with the upgraded unit solely for the added safety and piece of mind. Fan clutch starts to go? Aux fan gone? Performance upgrades in your future? Yeah, I can see spending the dough.

Also, Jon, dude... you've got friends that have had an upgraded water pump fail... but what, you don't know anyone with the stock pump that failed? All parts wear out, some before their time, some go well after their time.

[Jon K]

I'd go with the upgraded unit solely for the added safety and piece of mind. Fan clutch starts to go? Aux fan gone? Performance upgrades in your future? Yeah, I can see spending the dough.

Also, Jon, dude... you've got friends that have had an upgraded water pump fail... but what, you don't know anyone with the stock pump that failed? All parts wear out, some before their time, some go well after their time.


Warner pumps shouldn't sieze in < 3 months

I had one water pump fail @ 150k miles it started to leak, it didn't even fail.

I am just advising to save your money for something else.

[Ross]

I agree with Jon but for a different reason. The stock pump is more than adequate.
M30 water pump is a peanuts job fortunately for the OP
M30 belts are adjustable.

[Sam-Son]

Yeah I suppose I don't really need one it was just for the piece of mind maybe I'll just get a new thermostat

[Ross]

I suspect the OP, who hasn't been back to read any of this, had a failure due to overtightened belts.

[Jon K]

I wouldn't know much about the tightening of belts since mine are hydraulic but I would just say that going to a SW Pump on a stockish motor is a cover-up for other issues. Unless the engine is extremely strung out, going to an over-flowing pump is just a bandaid for an issue that still exists. Not trying to be argumentative at all - I have seen people go this route and STILL have issues.

Get a lower C thermostat if you must. My engine bay is a furnace and I never ever have any issue with stock cooling parts.

[Bin_jammin]

I wouldn't know much about the tightening of belts since mine are hydraulic but I would just say that going to a SW Pump on a stockish motor is a cover-up for other issues. Unless the engine is extremely strung out, going to an over-flowing pump is just a bandaid for an issue that still exists. Not trying to be argumentative at all - I have seen people go this route and STILL have issues.

Get a lower C thermostat if you must. My engine bay is a furnace and I never ever have any issue with stock cooling parts.

Hah, if I thought you were being argumentative, I'd be arguing with you!


Ugh... I was going to give advice on why a lower temp stat is equivalent to using a high flow pump to mask a problem, but I've been awake for two days installing a transmission in a vw passat and making three round trips to the auction, 50 miles or so each way. I'm beat, and I'm going to sleep.

[Jon K]

Hah, if I thought you were being argumentative, I'd be arguing with you!


Ugh... I was going to give advice on why a lower temp stat is equivalent to using a high flow pump to mask a problem, but I've been awake for two days installing a transmission in a vw passat and making three round trips to the auction, 50 miles or so each way. I'm beat, and I'm going to sleep.

We use different t stats because of the bumped up operating temperature of out motors. oil coolers too. thats along the lines of a normal instance to fix any issue. I am on a stock t-stat. The colder t-stat is an OEM part, though. Some will argue that water pump doesn't cool any better because it actually moves the water through the system faster... less time in the radiator means less heat dissipation. There's a lot of things about it that I don't really like.

[rob101]

less time in the radiator means less heat dissipation. There's
Well I am not sure whether you are agreeing with that, but i can tell you its not that simple. The faster the flow the more turbulent it is and the better it can transfer heat to the radiator per mass unit of coolant, and likewise in the engine that is a fact.

[nirvana19]

Who replaced the belts? Sounds as though they may have been set too tight, leading to bearing failure.

Jim

In the past I changed the belts, but the last time was done by a good bmw shop. I'm fairly sure when I did it the tension was just about right, and after the shop did it seemed to be the same. The water pump failure came completely out of the blue.

Just as an update, my car is still in the shop. Of course I've been given a list of about 5k worth of repairs that really should be done (most of it was the 3500 for the exhaust + cat, then smaller things like the brake pad sensors are missing, and more important fuel lines). Haven't really heard any good news yet.. gave the go ahead to get the engine running/diagnose where the coolant came out. I might not be driving my car for a while :(

[Dave M]

Just as an update, my car is still in the shop. Of course I've been given a list of about 5k worth of repairs that really should be done (most of it was the 3500 for the exhaust + cat, then smaller things like the brake pad sensors are missing, and more important fuel lines). Haven't really heard any good news yet..

Heres some good news. You can save $4000!!!!!!!!! Heres how...........

Buy both mufflers from BMABMA exhaust page (http://catalog.bmaparts.com/epcvsoapimc.epc?cookieID=26F1C4JDF26F1CB6QK&drillid=8&subcatid=801013@@Exhaust+System&source=BIMMERINFO&clientid=bmaparts). Front muff. = $215, rear muff. = $304.......hmmmm, muff, muff. Now get an aftermarket cat (<$100). If you're unable to piece it together yourself (fairly simple), then bring everything to a muffler shop. Then, forget about the brake pad sensors and just have a look at the pads from time to time.

Unfortunately, fuel lines can be a b!atch so if you're faint of heart, get someone else to do them.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

Dave

[Dave M]

oh what the heck, here are the brake pad sensors for ~$9 (http://catalog.bmaparts.com/epcvsoapimc.epc?cookieID=26F1C4JDF26F1CE4YS&drillid=8&subcatid=801045@@Pads%2C+Shoes+%26+Related&source=BIMMERINFO&clientid=bmaparts)

Dave

[nirvana19]

Heres some good news. You can save $4000!!!!!!!!! Heres how...........

Buy both mufflers from BMABMA exhaust page (http://catalog.bmaparts.com/epcvsoapimc.epc?cookieID=26F1C4JDF26F1CB6QK&drillid=8&subcatid=801013@@Exhaust+System&source=BIMMERINFO&clientid=bmaparts). Front muff. = $215, rear muff. = $304.......hmmmm, muff, muff. Now get an aftermarket cat (<$100). If you're unable to piece it together yourself (fairly simple), then bring everything to a muffler shop. Then, forget about the brake pad sensors and just have a look at the pads from time to time.

Unfortunately, fuel lines can be a b!atch so if you're faint of heart, get someone else to do them.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

Dave

I'm thinking the same thing (have the shop do the fuel lines). And oh yes I wouldn't ever consider dropping 3200 for an exhaust system. Me and a friend are going to do everything else, the exhaust won't be fun because theres a LOT of rust down there, so it might take a while to finish, but i'll get it done. Just wish I had more time these days

[Dave M]

I'm thinking the same thing (have the shop do the fuel lines). And oh yes I wouldn't ever consider dropping 3200 for an exhaust system. Me and a friend are going to do everything else, the exhaust won't be fun because theres a LOT of rust down there, so it might take a while to finish, but i'll get it done. Just wish I had more time these days

Good to hear :D

Rust shouldn't be too big an issue as you can just cut any offending bolts and exhaust clamps off on your way to removal, don't waste your time trying to crack rusted exhaust junk.

The only potential issue that springs to mind are the two brass hangers on either side of the rear exhaust which will likely be FUBAR'ed. Do yourself a favour and remove the rear bumper cover (two bolts under trim) to gain better access to these rust collectors. BMA sells em along with the rubber hangers etc. on the same page linked above.


EDIT: Time to think about the lat time the O2 sensor was changed???????

Dave

[Morgenster]

Why would you want the new waterpump to cool the engine more? I just had mine replaced along with fluids for 160 euros parts and labor. As far as I understand the workings of the cooling system it's supposed to keep the engine at optimal operating temp along with the T-stat. Cooling it too much makes for lower fuel economy doesn't it? I don't see where 'performance' comes in to play there.

[Sam-Son]

I wouldn't know much about the tightening of belts since mine are hydraulic but I would just say that going to a SW Pump on a stockish motor is a cover-up for other issues. Unless the engine is extremely strung out, going to an over-flowing pump is just a bandaid for an issue that still exists. Not trying to be argumentative at all - I have seen people go this route and STILL have issues.

Get a lower C thermostat if you must. My engine bay is a furnace and I never ever have any issue with stock cooling parts.
Jon-where would I get a lower C t-stat

[Jon K]

Jon-where would I get a lower C t-stat

Autohausaz usually offers a couple temps

[Sam-Son]

Autohausaz usually offers a couple temps
Thanks. so logically the lower the temp the cooler my car will be

[semiretired]

Don't go with Stewart Warner pumps that claim 30% more flow etc. Its cheaper and more logical to replace a $60 pump 3 times than replace a single $200 pump. I don't buy the "more flow" stuff. Not worth it IMHO
Looking at BMA parts they have
1/ APA $39.10
2/ HEPU $74.47
3/ GRAF $69.13

Which do you recommend and why?

Maybe I should just get one at the stealer?

[Dave M]

Thanks. so logically the lower the temp the cooler my car will be

Yes......................if you were asking a question ;)

Also, I don't recall if you're running hotter than normal (~12:00 on the guage)From a brief look back at your posts, it doesn't appear so. If you're not running hot, due to a high temp or bung thermo, I'm not sure why you'd want a cooler temp, but thats for you to decide.

Good luck with it,

Dave

[Sam-Son]

Yes......................if you were asking a question ;)

Also, I don't recall if you're running hotter than normal (~12:00 on the guage)From a brief look back at your posts, it doesn't appear so. If you're not running hot, due to a high temp or bung thermo, I'm not sure why you'd want a cooler temp, but thats for you to decide.

Good luck with it,

Dave
Thanks. Yeah it kinda was a question I guess I should have made it clear. My temp tends to run just alittle to the right of dead center and occasionally my temp guage will go almost right up to the red then come back to center, all very slowly as if the car was about to over heat and the T stat kicked in just in time.

[Dave M]

Thanks. Yeah it kinda was a question I guess I should have made it clear. My temp tends to run just alittle to the right of dead center and occasionally my temp guage will go almost right up to the red then come back to center, all very slowly as if the car was about to over heat and the T stat kicked in just in time.

This is definitely not normal and needs to be remedied. Barring a failed head gasket/cracked cylinder head etc. (mixing coolant/oil, burning coolant symptoms?), you need to get your cooling system under control.

You may simply have a bum thermo that sticks in the closed position, OR you could have an air bubble in the system. At minimum, you should change the thermo and bleed the system properly. If you need assistance, there is much written here. Hopefully the excursions toward the red zone haven't damaged the head.

Dave

[Sam-Son]

This is definitely not normal and needs to be remedied. Barring a failed head gasket/cracked cylinder head etc. (mixing coolant/oil, burning coolant symptoms?), you need to get your cooling system under control.

You may simply have a bum thermo that sticks in the closed position, OR you could have an air bubble in the system. At minimum, you should change the thermo and bleed the system properly. If you need assistance, there is much written here. Hopefully the excursions toward the red zone haven't damaged the head.

Dave
I must stress once in a while as in very rarely. I chaulked it up to the fact that I was idling for 15 mins in 90 degree heat with the a/c on and I just had a bum instrument cluster. either weay I'm gonna get a new t stat and bleed the system

[txp135]

Jon K,

I know you said to not replace with Stewart water pump due to cost. However, it also provides a lifetime warranty. Now I know you said that you have friends that have these failed, which might be manufacturing defective units rather than design flaws?

The reason I'm asking is since I'm considering the Stewart one so I don't have to change it every 2 yrs. I'm glad I stumbled into this thread before I plunk the money down. If the Stewart pump can last 3 times as long as the oe one, it would make sense to me since I'm keeping the car for a long time. So was the failures you saw were the exceptions or the norm for Stewart pumps? I value your opinion and experience. Thanks.

[Barney Paull-Edwards]

Change a metal impellor pump every 2 years????????.Drill the housing, thread in a grease nipple, pressurise a little, end of problem,on second pump in 12 years,original owner did that in `98 and pump still fine.

[Jon K]

Jon K,

I know you said to not replace with Stewart water pump due to cost. However, it also provides a lifetime warranty. Now I know you said that you have friends that have these failed, which might be manufacturing defective units rather than design flaws?

The reason I'm asking is since I'm considering the Stewart one so I don't have to change it every 2 yrs. I'm glad I stumbled into this thread before I plunk the money down. If the Stewart pump can last 3 times as long as the oe one, it would make sense to me since I'm keeping the car for a long time. So was the failures you saw were the exceptions or the norm for Stewart pumps? I value your opinion and experience. Thanks.

You might consider this thread:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10710936&postcount=18

My feelings on it are, either they designed a super efficient impeller blade (not all that likely from the units I've seen), or they're over-driving the pump with a slightly smaller input wheel or something - again, not sure. But, the issue has been that cars I have put these on are either 100% fine, or are having fan clutch/blade issues. I have seen 2 or 3 cars literally rocket the fan blades off of the fan! This makes me think that thing might be over-driven, but again, I don't remember putting a new belt wheel on it!

It's some sort of mystery - I have had great luck with OE pumps and my car probably makes as much heat as any other car on here, and I have never had a temperature issue.

[AllGo'n'Show]

Sam-Son

From my personal experience, the m30 pump is easy as hell to do. Buy a new pump, new gasket, new t-stat, some new coolant and spend an hour or 2 u got free soon and do it all at the same time. No point in taking the water pump off the t-stat housing then just replacing the t-stat ot do the waterpump a few months later. Bleed it all properly in the end and the elimates like 4-5 things to your overheating problem that, trust me on this too, if you don't fix soon, it will turn into something.

[txp135]

Thank you for that link Jon. I guess oe pump it is then. You know every time I try to do a search to see if I should upgrade or OE. It always come back to OE, damn BMW! So far I replaced OE suspension/steering, front calipers and pads all around. Next up... cooling system.