I am in Ball Joint Hell.....need help big time!

[leicesterboy15]

I got some time over the weekend so I decided to have another go at the control arms. I tried to remove the bolts at the crossmember for the upper arms and even armed with the correct tools this time I failed once again, the bolts just will not budge and I am now in danger of rounding them off so have decided to get them done at a garage, I don't have a clue how long they have been on for.

I got the steering plate and lower control arm bolts loose without too much of a problem but then I couldn't remove the ball joint. The ball joint tool I had kept slipping, I've tried wiggling, tactical assult and just brute force and it will not shift at all. I went out and got a ball joint fork and managed to get the whole thing wedged in there between the arm and the steering plate and the fork just got stuck, the arm would still not release from the steering plate! It was quite rusty in there and the steering rods look like they've been there a while so I can only assume that the lower arms have been there a while too.

Usually perserverance and gritted teeth get you through a job like this but not this time, I have run out of ideas and need help on how to get that ball joint out of the arm.

I can't believe the fork didn't work, looking down from the top of the steering plate it looked like the bolt hadn't shifted at all and when I got the fork out there was still no play in the connection. Am I doing something wrong? The car is not driveable at the moment (or at least I don't think so) because I have made a mess of the ball joint boot and the bolts are not torqued. I have the car booked in on thursday to do the upper arms (£60 labour so not bad!) but I need to get it there. I have 3 hours tomorrow between getting home and it going dark to get the car driveable and any tips would be much appreciated. I tried driving the car up and down the driveway as well but that didn't loosen it. Is it best to try with the car's weight on the bushes so there no play there or on axle stands (as I have been)? If i need heat would a hairdryer do the job or does it need to be hotter and for how long? I've also been told that you can just snap them off but how do I do this, I can't see anything obvious. Is there anyway of disassembling the ball joint?

Help.....:(

[BigKriss]

did you use the bill r method?

[632 Regal]

drop the cross bar to get to the bolts in back I had to because clearance issues. Kris's suggestion of Bill Rs is removing the whole knucke and beating it out on the floor.

[Dave M]

What I understand is you can't get the 'rear bolt' loosened and you've tried a puller of some sort as well as a pickle fork on the ball joint. The topic of thrust arm removal has been discussed here ad nauseam, so try a search.

Can't say much about the rear mount as I've never encountered issues there. The fact that your puller tool is slipping off indicates you could find a better pulller. There are many pullers out there with different arm angles and ability to hold a small area such as on the thrust arm. I've used two which were successfull. The pic below shows a small one that worked despite its size.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/dave_macisaac/Bimmer/Steering-Suspension/puller.jpg

If you find you need to drive the car, don't worry about the boot being torn. As long you fit a bolt back on the ball joint, just get it where it needs to go.

good luck with it.

Dave

[632 Regal]

Dave I'm pretty sure the rear bolt he is referring to is the back of the thrust arm. I had the same problem the 1st time I did mine, there just was NOT enough room for even the ground down wrench.


What I understand is you can't get the 'rear bolt' loosened and you've tried a puller of some sort as well as a pickle fork on the ball joint. The topic of thrust arm removal has been discussed here ad nauseam, so try a search.

Can't say much about the rear mount as I've never encountered issues there. The fact that your puller tool is slipping off indicates you could find a better pulller. There are many pullers out there with different arm angles and ability to hold a small area such as on the thrust arm. I've used two which were successfull. The pic below shows a small one that worked despite its size.


If you find you need to drive the car, don't worry about the boot being torn. As long you fit a bolt back on the ball joint, just get it where it needs to go.

good luck with it.

Dave

[NovceGuru]

When I did mine (shut up jeffb) I improved on Bill R's method slightly with an oxy/acetylene torch, I then braced the thing with some random chunks of metal, took a big ass punch (halfshaft or something? My grandfather bought gobs of army surplus junk after WWII and it's still there..) and positioned it on the ball joint, and it only took one solid whack with the 10lb sledge.

[632 Regal]

Watch* it man* lol.... I got mine off with the pickle fork gammed in there and used acetyline torch also.

*please note the "L" and "R" cast into the arms as to what side they refer to.


When I did mine *(*shut up jeffb*)* I improved on Bill R's method slightly with an oxy/acetylene torch, I then braced the thing with some random chunks of metal, took a big ass punch (halfshaft or something? My grandfather bought gobs of army surplus junk after WWII and it's still there..) and positioned it on the ball joint, and it only took one solid whack with the 10lb sledge.

* please see note above

[leicesterboy15]

Thanks for all the input, sorry about the confusion, the arm I am referring to is no 2 in the image:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=HK42&mospid=47398&btnr=31_0250&hg=31&fg=05

I have removed bolt no 15 but cannot get the ball joint separated from the steering plate. I think I will have to remove the steering plate as suggested and attack it off the car. I guess the general theme is lots of lube and brute force (the mind boggles!) Thanks for the input, at least I know I can drive it now if I need to.

I love the way the Bentley says 'Tap the ball joint lightly to separate it from the steering plate' like its a breeze!

[BigKriss]

bill r method ftw but forget that a shop will do your work. I mean might as well get them to do both upper and lower arms at the same time.

to remove the steering knuckle, i think you have to remove the uppercontrol arm bolt anyway hmmmmmmmmm

if you do the upper and lower control arms yourself, remove the nut from part number 7 while the steetin knucle is still attached to the strut.

[leicesterboy15]

what is FTW?

I did think that if I remove the plate then I am half way to removing the upper arm anyway! And what if that ball joint proves just as stubborn?! I think I will have one last bash at it tonight (I only have a couple of hours free) and if it doesn't work I will torque all the bolts up and let the garage do it. I am disappointed that yet again I haven't managed to do it but I have built up a mean array of tools as a result of this job and I have learned a hell of a lot. Maybe I should just conceed that I don't get enough time anymore to do all the car DIY that I want to do.

[Dave M]

Well, if time is not on your side, you may have to bring it in and have someone else crack them. BUT, if you try the puller again, try and prevent it from slipping off by bracing the arms tight together. I've used hose clamps and something as simple as a C-clamp to do the job. Once its braced, turn it slowly and make sure it stays engaged on the arm. If / when that sucker lets loose, puller/control arm/c-clamp hell breaks loose :D

Good luck again, too bad you can't just bring it by.

Dave

[BigKriss]

ftw = for the win


what is FTW?

I did think that if I remove the plate then I am half way to removing the upper arm anyway! And what if that ball joint proves just as stubborn?! I think I will have one last bash at it tonight (I only have a couple of hours free) and if it doesn't work I will torque all the bolts up and let the garage do it. I am disappointed that yet again I haven't managed to do it but I have built up a mean array of tools as a result of this job and I have learned a hell of a lot. Maybe I should just conceed that I don't get enough time anymore to do all the car DIY that I want to do.

[Ross]

If relacing the parts with new then the pickle fork is the perfect way. Leave the lower part of the strut in place. It will wedge between the backing plate with a little persuasion. Loosen the nut all the way and put it back a turn or two to keep things from flying when it releases.
Make sure the nut spins free before whacking the stud loose or you'll have another dilema trying to remove the nut with the stud now turning freely.
Hit the fork HARD with a BFH, done.

[e34.535i.sport]

You need a SCISSOR TYPE ball joint seperator - about £15 from halfords. I tried to do the control arms with a pickle fork and i'm a strong guy - wasn't happening. Scissor type seperator had the joint out in two minutes literally.

Trust me, once you use this thing you'll be amazed. Hope this helps.

[leicesterboy15]

I think I'll have to invest in one of these for next time as the two tools I bought didn't work, I thought the fork would have it but unfortunately not!

Thanks for all your help guys!

[e34.535i.sport]

You won't regret it if you do buy one, a really useful investment. I done my control arms with it recently with no problems (pickle fork got me nowhere), and have just done the tie rod assemblies today!!! Made short work of the ball joints. A braker bar to turn the bolt is also useful!