REALISTIC gain with 8mm wires and hi-po coil

[Funkmasta]

I picked up 8mm wires and an MSD Blaster2 coil out of a parts car. Should I expect any realistic power gains on my M30b35? It is currently stock with a Dinan chip.

TIA!

Joe

[repenttokyo]

no.

[Tiger]

Actually you can... http://www.jacobselectronics.com/

I read the bood and applied their principle to traditional stock ignition system... it does work... engine is smoother, more responsive and better fuel economy.

The coil is the biggest upgrade... high power coil plus wider spark plug gap yields more power... BMW system is pretty good but can be improved upon.

I am not sure how good the MSD coil is... but it doesn't hurt to try it.

[repenttokyo]

not to be a prick, but is that a dyno proven horsepower gain from just wires and blaster coils?

[Sidney Rough-Diamond]

There's a chance of a very small power gain. Nothing you'll feel though IMHO

[Funkmasta]

I know it is a realistic gain on under engineered cars :)

[repenttokyo]

I know it is a realistic gain on under engineered cars :)

what does that mean?

[Funkmasta]

Any older Chevy V8 motor... ;)

Back in the days when I was big into Land Cruisers, people would always be hopping up the ignition systems on their V8 swaps.

[repenttokyo]

There's a difference between upgrading an ignition system on a carb'd V8 and adding 8mm wires and blaster coils to a stock efi motor...I wouldn't really consider wires and coils an upgraded ignition system, it's not like you're switching from points or anything drastic like that. Were your old wires cracked and dingy? Then yes, you will see a "difference" when you bring your car back to stock spec with these 8mm wires. But stock wires would have gotten you the same effect.

Putting used wires on your car might not be the best idea, what kind of condition are they in?

[Bin_jammin]

Seriously, what are you expecting? 40hp, 60lbft, and an extra 20mpg?

[Tiger]

There is a difference. Look at any high powered modded engines... efi, carbed or any mechanical fi... all ignition system are not stock. It is not eye candy. Crane ignition is more popular than Jacob... Accel and MSD is more of eye candy stuff but I haven't messed with those brands. I have played with Mallory system...

I think a 5 or 10 HP gain is possible on stock engine... extra 2 MPG gain... To get 10HP gain, you need external ignition computer to achieve that. What that does is create multiple ignition spark within same point or slightly alter the timing as stock where stock would only ignite one time. Widening spark plug gap would create higher spark energy as long as you got a coil to provide it at whatever RPM required.

Most stock ignition system that use one coil only are really weak and low RPM designed... That is why they went with muliple coils... to compensate for the lack of ability at high RPM.

[Sam-Son]

Seriously, what are you expecting? 40hp, 60lbft, and an extra 20mpg?
Ooh I like the sound of this what do I have to do add a wing and some stickers?

[repenttokyo]

There is a difference. Look at any high powered modded engines... efi, carbed or any mechanical fi... all ignition system are not stock. It is not eye candy. Crane ignition is more popular than Jacob... Accel and MSD is more of eye candy stuff but I haven't messed with those brands. I have played with Mallory system....

i disagree. There are many many high powered setups using stock GM coils and wires, for example.

Here is a picture of a 2500 hp engine using GM coils.

http://www.lincolnmotorsport.com/evil11.jpg

Some people say they get less blowout with a higher power coil...but the reality is, stock coils can punch just as hard.

In some applications, as you noted, aftermarket iginition equipment is necessary, or desireable. But daily driving - there's not much, if any difference...and sad to say, a lot of aftermarket parts, for any application, ARE eye candy, because it's fun to have an engine bay that looks nice. It comes down to where do you want to spend your money?

[pingu]

I'm with repenttokyo on this - but then I'm a cynic - I want to see dyno figures before I give any credence. It seems to me that if you want more power then you need to burn more fuel, and induce more oxygen, on each piston stroke.

[Bin_jammin]

I'm with repenttokyo on this - but then I'm a cynic - I want to see dyno figures before I give any credence. It seems to me that if you want more power then you need to burn more fuel, and induce more oxygen, on each piston stroke.

+2

***EDIT***

Just FYI, you may be speaking of upgrading systems which use a distributor. Replacing a distributor in general is a good idea, as it will always have mechanical parts that will wear/fail. It wasn't too long ago that cars had advance weights.

[Funkmasta]

i disagree. There are many many high powered setups using stock GM coils and wires, for example.

Here is a picture of a 2500 hp engine using GM coils.

http://www.lincolnmotorsport.com/evil11.jpg

Some people say they get less blowout with a higher power coil...but the reality is, stock coils can punch just as hard.

In some applications, as you noted, aftermarket iginition equipment is necessary, or desireable. But daily driving - there's not much, if any difference...and sad to say, a lot of aftermarket parts, for any application, ARE eye candy, because it's fun to have an engine bay that looks nice. It comes down to where do you want to spend your money?

Those are coil packs though, 1 coil per cylinder. Totally different than 1 coil for 6 cylinders.


Sam-Son

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bin_jammin
Seriously, what are you expecting? 40hp, 60lbft, and an extra 20mpg?
Ooh I like the sound of this what do I have to do add a wing and some stickers?

Wow. Not really feeling the love from this forum?

I have an M30b35 in my E30, so if there is any power gain, I would expect to be able to feel it. I was just curious. There is not much real life M30b35 knowledge on my home forum (R3Vlimited), which is why I asked here.

[Sam-Son]

Those are coil packs though, 1 coil per cylinder. Totally different than 1 coil for 6 cylinders.



Wow. Not really feeling the love from this forum?

I have an M30b35 in my E30, so if there is any power gain, I would expect to be able to feel it. I was just curious. There is not much real M30b35 knowledge on my home forum (R3Vlimited), which is why I asked here.
I don't know. I'd get something just to dress up the look of my car or the engine bay. Hell people said my B&B Triflo exhaust was a waste because it wouldn't add noticeable HP. well I got it for the look and the sound, and you know what I can feel a difference. so go for it if you want it

[Funkmasta]

I don't know. I'd get something just to dress up the look of my car or the engine bay. Hell people said my B&B Triflo exhaust was a waste because it wouldn't add noticeable HP. well I got it for the look and the sound, and you know what I can feel a difference. so go for it if you want it

The wires theoretically should run cooler, being a larger dia, no? Maybe they will last longer? Maybe they have less resistance? who knows?

My car is far from a show car, the shell is temporary. I am building the drivetrain first, as I can afford to.

Maybe the red wires will distract attention from my drivers fender which has been puked on by the cooling system multiple times as we have played with cooling it correctly. eh? :lol:

[attack eagle]

atleast it isn't points... because those high power coils have a lower impedance and burn them out quickly. I'm still not sold on them being so great for factory electronics either.
If you increase your plug gap you may see some improvement in smoothness and a little better fuel economy but it will not be anything major. Of course simply replacing an old 15+ year old coil with a new OEM one, and new plugs and wires will also improve things.

You simply haveto ask yourself if the time and expense and possible reliability issues are worth the gains (1-2 mpg cruise, 10 hp) you hope to get.

[Bin_jammin]

Ooh I like the sound of this what do I have to do add a wing and some stickers?


That's funnier than you know. I actually have a wing that's going on the back of my car, and I just put dtmpower stickers on the rear passenger windows.

The wing isn't anything ridiculous, and once it's on only a bmw person would know it's not stock. I'm basically putting it on because it doesn't look bad, and I need to build a custom parcel shelf, so I'll be moving the chmsl. The stickers were for fun, a friend of mine has tons of them and I did a brake job on his m3, so for shits and giggles we stuck 'em on. Gave me 5hp per sticker. ;)

[Ferret]

atleast it isn't points... because those high power coils have a lower impedance and burn them out quickly.

Lol, last time I had to deal with points was on an 80s skoda estelle engine... albeit not in the skoda any more.

We'd blown up the first coil by forgetting to wire the ballast resistor in properly - and fitted a v8 high power coil to it cos it was the only thing spare. Blew the points to **** in no time at all and the car wouldnt run...

[Jon K]

Yeah guys you're more than likely wasting money on big plug wires. Firstly, low resistance/no resistance spark plugs are bad for the ECU - they emit noise that can really freak the computer out. I was running low resistance MSD plug wires on my car when I had GM coil packs and the car would misfire and drive like crap. I switched to normal resistance and all is well. Spark plug wires should be very very far down on the list of stuff to do. Having good stock plug wires is more than enough.

[Ross]

If you aren't currently having misfire or showing signs of rich running the ignition parts probably wont do any good.
If you are putting a bunch more fuel in the motor you may see an improvement. If you have the coil why not try it.
I can tell you the same combo on an overcarbureted V-8 made a world of difference.
Jon K's point about the wires is worth noting. I never would have thought of that myself.

[winfred]

i wouldn't expect much of a improvement unless the stock parts are bad, the oem wires are solid core wires and the resistaince is taken care of with the ends, so they are pretty good and generally last over 200k miles, you can check them with a ohm meter against one another (unlike resistor wire which varys depending on length) and as long as they are pretty close to one another all is well

[Funkmasta]

The wires and coil were literally free to me, so, I don't have any money out on them... They are in like-new condition as well.

sigh.

[Tiger]

Try the coil... I never change out my wire anyway. You got nothing to lose... you can always swap it back to stock. I would increase the spark plug gap with the MSD coil.

[Funkmasta]

=I would increase the spark plug gap with the MSD coil.
How much? any idea?

[Tiger]

If the stock is like for example... 0.024" then increase it to 0.034" or halfway of what I mentioned... 0.029"... these are for single electrode only plugs.

[Sam-Son]

That's funnier than you know. I actually have a wing that's going on the back of my car, and I just put dtmpower stickers on the rear passenger windows.

The wing isn't anything ridiculous, and once it's on only a bmw person would know it's not stock. I'm basically putting it on because it doesn't look bad, and I need to build a custom parcel shelf, so I'll be moving the chmsl. The stickers were for fun, a friend of mine has tons of them and I did a brake job on his m3, so for shits and giggles we stuck 'em on. Gave me 5hp per sticker. ;)
Pics?

[Dave PA]

when i picked the car up he was like 'yeah it runs great w/them.' ok fine whatever. so i left them in for the first couple of months of ownership. SWEET MOTHER OF PEARL!!

When they went bad it's like the whole 02 shuts down. Popping and cracking all over the place coupled w/lots of bucking. was never happier in my life to do an upgrade on a car. THAT was a literal night and day feeling.

like the others i'd like to see what the dyno says, but i think i'd just stick w/stock. but if it's a free upgrade why not. Or at least keep them for a rainy day project but only AFTER the 'honey do' list is completed.

i hate that f'n list.

dave

[Jon K]

Open the plugs up as far as you can and let the pistons close them down. That's how I do it.

[Funkmasta]

Or at least keep them for a rainy day project but only AFTER the 'honey do' list is completed.

i hate that f'n list.

dave

lol

I'm taking a road trip tomorrow, maybe I will throw them on before I head home.

[Funkmasta]

Open the plugs up as far as you can and let the pistons close them down. That's how I do it.

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/images/smilies/gay.gif

[Tiger]

Very funny Jon.

[Ross]

Open the plugs up as far as you can and let the pistons close them down. That's how I do it.
Oh ****, I wet myself.

[Jon K]

Oh ****, I wet myself.


:p

[Bin_jammin]

Pics?


http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2657002

I haven't updated in a while, I've got a bunch of pics I need to sort through. I'm working the dealership tomorrow morning, I'll see about working on it then, it's usually pretty slow until after noon.