Strange vibration

[J.DeFeo]

I have a vibration problem! I had several, and now I'm down to just one.

It's not wheel/tire roundess or balance since I just had both of those checked on a GSP9700 and they're perfect.

It's not thrust arm bushings since there's no change in the vibration during braking.

It happens once I get up to highway speeds - it's a vibration that almost seems in sync with the engine speed, but it's not - I can push the clutch to the floor on the highway and the vibration remains. Which means it's either driveshaft or some other suspension component. It is related ONLY to road (or driveshaft) speed, not engine speed. It is not noticeable until above 60 MPH.

Here's the strange part though - it basically disappears after 10-15 minutes of driving. It can be felt through the armrest BARELY, but that could just be uneveness in the road. It is very noticeable when I first get going in the morning but by the time I've been driving for a bit it's more or less gone. I pray to god that it isn't the center bearing (I just redid the clutch and replaced it, I pre-loaded it according to the Bentley instructions, new guibo and transmission mounts as well.

I noticed two rubber mounts on the rear stabilizer are cracked and look pretty deteriorated. The bushings up front all look fine. Could those rear mounts be causing this? I'm pretty sure my engine mounts need to be replaced as well, but because the vibration has no correlation to engine speed I'm skeptical that they could be causing this.

Would it be worth dropping the exhaust and checking the center bearing just to make double sure it's on right? I'm 99.9% sure it is, I just did it maybe a month ago. The bolts were flush with the back end of the mounting holes; i.e. the bearing was pushed as far towards the front of the car as it would go (about 1/4", as specified in the bentley manual) then bolted down tight.

[Paul in NZ]

sounds like your tires...can get a flat spot overnight,once they are warmed up and been spinning for a bit they even out.

[J.DeFeo]

sounds like your tires...can get a flat spot overnight,once they are warmed up and been spinning for a bit they even out.

Does that happen even if they're brand new? They have like 200 miles on them. Is there a way to fix that?

[Morgenster]

Does that happen even if they're brand new? They have like 200 miles on them. Is there a way to fix that?

I remember a post that says especially when new and it gets better.
I had the exact same problem. Then I had the wheels changed and new tires.
I'm pretty sure the old wheels and tires were badly balanced because they were mounted in a hurry at the shop.
It was much better after the change-over but still noticeable and now a month and a half later (3000kms on new tires) it's virtually gone.

[J.DeFeo]

Ok, the tires now have about 5,000 miles on them and still the same problem.

I'd just like to make absolutely sure that this isn't a driveshaft issue. Let's say I put the two pieces of the driveshaft back together at the U-joint 180 degrees off (I did mark it but I guess it's possible); this would vibrate at low speeds too, right? By virtue of only vibrating at high speeds it pretty much rules out that screwup?

The vibration is temperature-dependant. It's worse on cold days and almost unnoticeable on warm days. It also completely diappears at around 78mph.

I noticed that the vibration gets slightly worse at 70ish mph if I let off the gas with the clutch still engaged. I read that this indicated a rear-end problem. Sway bar links, maybe?

[Morgenster]

Ok, the tires now have about 5,000 miles on them and still the same problem.

I'd just like to make absolutely sure that this isn't a driveshaft issue. Let's say I put the two pieces of the driveshaft back together at the U-joint 180 degrees off (I did mark it but I guess it's possible); this would vibrate at low speeds too, right? By virtue of only vibrating at high speeds it pretty much rules out that screwup?

The vibration is temperature-dependant. It's worse on cold days and almost unnoticeable on warm days. It also completely diappears at around 78mph.

I noticed that the vibration gets slightly worse at 70ish mph if I let off the gas with the clutch still engaged. I read that this indicated a rear-end problem. Sway bar links, maybe?

OK now that's scary and exactly the same as my problem. Now that winter is setting in the vibration's came back and disappear when the car is warmed up (especially after idling some time). I'm thinking more along the lines of guibo, center bearing or diff mount.
What I think both of us should try now is see if the vibration persists when we declutch at that speed.
If the problem persists when you declutch it's likely a tire/suspension problem. If not It's driveshaft-related.

On another note: does your car have a tendency to buck when cold?

[J.DeFeo]

OK now that's scary and exactly the same as my problem. Now that winter is setting in the vibration's came back and disappear when the car is warmed up (especially after idling some time). I'm thinking more along the lines of guibo, center bearing or diff mount.
What I think both of us should try now is see if the vibration persists when we declutch at that speed.
If the problem persists when you declutch it's likely a tire/suspension problem. If not It's driveshaft-related.

On another note: does your car have a tendency to buck when cold?

Letting off the clutch doesn't change anything, but even with the trans in neutral the driveshaft is still spinning, which wouldn't necessarily rule out a driveshaft related problem. Both my guibo and center bearing are basically brand new, less than 10k miles on them.

Yes, my car bucks when I let off the throttle completely when it is cold occationally. I've had it happen in 1st-3rd gear. When the engine is warmed up it doesn't happen.

I'll have to check my diff mounts. I replaced the transmission mounts at the same time as the guibo/center bearing and the old ones were pretty worn (smooshed about 2/3 the height of the new ones).

[ber55ber55]

Hey guys, I have slightly the same problem.

I dont have any sounds/vibrations at low speed.

At around 65-70 and above there is an extreme vibrate.

I recently redid the guibo, centering bearing, new fluid in tranny, and new tires. I was also thinking it is the diff. Either fluid is low, needs to be replaces, or the bushing are toast.

When i hit the gas it persists, when i roll at high speeds in gear, it persists, but when i put the car in neutral or step on clutch......gone....

Its not affecting my driving so im not toooooo worried YET. Let me know if you guys find something. Thanks

[Brandon J]

2 things come to mind. Flat spot tires and hard cold suspension. The tires are flat spotting more in the cold. The tires are cold so it is less compliant for an exisiting problem. The suspension is cold so the shocks do not work as well until warmed-up.

So, it kind of sounds like there is an existing problem that gets masked when the tires and shocks (and or suspension) get warm and more compliant. When you did the center bearing, was it aligned correctly. I have seen several center bearings that were put in with the preload, but not installed perfectly perpendicular to the driveshaft.

Sometimes the thrust arms don't give a vibration when braking. Sometimes the bushing sits better when braking and there is no vibration. So don't rule the thrust arms just yet. Since you do feel it in the arm rest, great description, then yes we do look at the rear. If not tires, sometimes wheels can give this, rear bearings, rear halfshafts, shock mounts, rear contol arm bushings, front bearings, etc.

Great description of the problem btw. Good Luck.

[Sam-Son]

have something similar to this and I think it may just be the tires they have about 15k miles on them and my avons are known for getting abit...rough when they get to this mileage...well I Hope it the tires

[J.DeFeo]

Would severely "warped" rotors cause these symptoms? My brakes badly need to be replaced.

[BMWCCA1]

It's obvious to me it's your tires. It happened all the time with my (shitty) Avon all-seasons every morning I took my kids to school. Worse if the last time I drove it the air and tires were warm and it got cold overnight. Usually took about ten miles to smooth out. Then they started wearing funny and were noisy and vibrated all the time. Oddly enough my car is now perfectly smooth, even in the morning, since I put my SNOW TIRES on!

[Sam-Son]

It's obvious to me it's your tires. It happened all the time with my (shitty) Avon all-seasons every morning I took my kids to school. Worse if the last time I drove it the air and tires were warm and it got cold overnight. Usually took about ten miles to smooth out. Then they started wearing funny and were noisy and vibrated all the time. Oddly enough my car is now perfectly smooth, even in the morning, since I put my SNOW TIRES on!
I was hoping you'd jump on this....I'm in the process of just beating the **** outta these tires because they are really useless in the snow not to mention the sidewall of the right rear has a couple of gashes in it I'm gonna tear 'em up then get some blizzaks

[philbyil]

Start with the cheap stuff first!!

Any steering/suspension bushings that have deteriorated can increase NVH into the car and the sway bar bushings are cheap and any easy do.If you haven't done so already, replace all of them (front rear and links) while you are at it.
Brandon's idea about the tires is a good one. The Hunter GSP9700 normally spots a bad one but if you do have two on the rear causing this issue, swap them to the front and then see what happens.

Oh...and I assume that you marked the propshaft where it was attached at each end before you removed it and then attached it back with the marks properly aligned?







I have a vibration problem! I had several, and now I'm down to just one.

It's not wheel/tire roundess or balance since I just had both of those checked on a GSP9700 and they're perfect.

It's not thrust arm bushings since there's no change in the vibration during braking.

It happens once I get up to highway speeds - it's a vibration that almost seems in sync with the engine speed, but it's not - I can push the clutch to the floor on the highway and the vibration remains. Which means it's either driveshaft or some other suspension component. It is related ONLY to road (or driveshaft) speed, not engine speed. It is not noticeable until above 60 MPH.

Here's the strange part though - it basically disappears after 10-15 minutes of driving. It can be felt through the armrest BARELY, but that could just be uneveness in the road. It is very noticeable when I first get going in the morning but by the time I've been driving for a bit it's more or less gone. I pray to god that it isn't the center bearing (I just redid the clutch and replaced it, I pre-loaded it according to the Bentley instructions, new guibo and transmission mounts as well.

I noticed two rubber mounts on the rear stabilizer are cracked and look pretty deteriorated. The bushings up front all look fine. Could those rear mounts be causing this? I'm pretty sure my engine mounts need to be replaced as well, but because the vibration has no correlation to engine speed I'm skeptical that they could be causing this.

Would it be worth dropping the exhaust and checking the center bearing just to make double sure it's on right? I'm 99.9% sure it is, I just did it maybe a month ago. The bolts were flush with the back end of the mounting holes; i.e. the bearing was pushed as far towards the front of the car as it would go (about 1/4", as specified in the bentley manual) then bolted down tight.

[J.DeFeo]

Start with the cheap stuff first!!

Any steering/suspension bushings that have deteriorated can increase NVH into the car and the sway bar bushings are cheap and any easy do.If you haven't done so already, replace all of them (front rear and links) while you are at it.
Brandon's idea about the tires is a good one. The Hunter GSP9700 normally spots a bad one but if you do have two on the rear causing this issue, swap them to the front and then see what happens.

Oh...and I assume that you marked the propshaft where it was attached at each end before you removed it and then attached it back with the marks properly aligned?

I did mark the drive shaft, so I don't think I screwed that up.

What is NVH? Thanks, this gives me some good ideas. Sway bar links and stabilizer bushings are cheap and easy to replace so i'll order up a set and do it when I do my brakes.

Do you think a stuck caliper could cause similar symptoms? I read a while back on this board about someone who had the same kind of vibration in addition to the car occasionally pulling to one side during braking (my car does this).

[philbyil]

NVH = Noise, Vibration and Harshness....it's auto "industryspeak".

BTW - Did you have your car aligned (front AND rear) when you replaced your front end bushings?

A stuck caliper could give you some vibration but I see you will be doing a brake job shortly so that will remove another likely suspect if you haven't found it. The tires still could be in the mix.......that's why I suggested moving them from front to rear. You will definitely feel a dodgy tire on the front a lot quicker :)



I did mark the drive shaft, so I don't think I screwed that up.

What is NVH? Thanks, this gives me some good ideas. Sway bar links and stabilizer bushings are cheap and easy to replace so i'll order up a set and do it when I do my brakes.

Do you think a stuck caliper could cause similar symptoms? I read a while back on this board about someone who had the same kind of vibration in addition to the car occasionally pulling to one side during braking (my car does this).

[John 535is (Sydney)]

it sounds like the centre bearing (yes - again). I had a similar problem. BTW, just change the fronts to the rear to confirm all the talk on tyres, otherwise I would drop the shaft and check the centre bearing. I know its been done recently, mine tore the rubber surround on the centre bearing. At least it is a cheap part and not too hard to do at home. John535is

[skotE34]

do bimmers have those rubber mounted driveshaft dampers on both ends like Benz's. When I used to work at Benz we had vibration probs like that, if it wasnt the tires then it was those dampers, especially if it was a high mileage vehicle. You can tell if the rubber isnt symmetrical in between the metal bushings in the damper.

[philbyil]

They have the front "damper" aka the Guibo and then a rubber mounted center bearing. He has replaced both......:(


do bimmers have those rubber mounted driveshaft dampers on both ends like Benz's. When I used to work at Benz we had vibration probs like that, if it wasnt the tires then it was those dampers, especially if it was a high mileage vehicle. You can tell if the rubber isnt symmetrical in between the metal bushings in the damper.

[Gearhead]

J. DeFeo,

I have the same exact issue. A few months back I noticed a vibration correlating to driveline speed, not vehicle speed. It would come and go, but then the carrier bearing started to squeak obnoxiously. I replaced the carrier bearing and re-aligned all the driveshaft components back in original position. The squeak is gone but the vibration remains and mine is also related to temperature as it almost disappears when the car has run for a while. The Guibo looked fine when I was down there, but had decided to replace it until I read this string where a few of you have new Guibos, yet still have the same temperature-related driveshaft vibration.

Do you think it might actually be the U-joint itself (there by the carrirer support bearing)?

[cool740il]

J.DeFeo, did you ever get your vibration fixed?

cool740il

[Ross]

Has this been resolved?
I don't think driveshaft, no reason for temperature to effect that.
Suspension parts aren't likey to cause a vibration, a shake surely but not what is described. Definately not brakes.
Some really **** tires I say. Is there noise also associated with this?
I've been fooled by tires a bunch of times.
Borrow a different set from someone and see what happens.

[Rick L]

What kind of tires do you have? Soft performance tires will create flat spot if the car sits for a while. Depends on your car + if your car's bushings are worn will amplify the shake / vibration. Of course it goes away as the tire heats up and become round.



I have a vibration problem! I had several, and now I'm down to just one.

It's not wheel/tire roundess or balance since I just had both of those checked on a GSP9700 and they're perfect.

It's not thrust arm bushings since there's no change in the vibration during braking.

It happens once I get up to highway speeds - it's a vibration that almost seems in sync with the engine speed, but it's not - I can push the clutch to the floor on the highway and the vibration remains. Which means it's either driveshaft or some other suspension component. It is related ONLY to road (or driveshaft) speed, not engine speed. It is not noticeable until above 60 MPH.

Here's the strange part though - it basically disappears after 10-15 minutes of driving. It can be felt through the armrest BARELY, but that could just be uneveness in the road. It is very noticeable when I first get going in the morning but by the time I've been driving for a bit it's more or less gone. I pray to god that it isn't the center bearing (I just redid the clutch and replaced it, I pre-loaded it according to the Bentley instructions, new guibo and transmission mounts as well.

I noticed two rubber mounts on the rear stabilizer are cracked and look pretty deteriorated. The bushings up front all look fine. Could those rear mounts be causing this? I'm pretty sure my engine mounts need to be replaced as well, but because the vibration has no correlation to engine speed I'm skeptical that they could be causing this.

Would it be worth dropping the exhaust and checking the center bearing just to make double sure it's on right? I'm 99.9% sure it is, I just did it maybe a month ago. The bolts were flush with the back end of the mounting holes; i.e. the bearing was pushed as far towards the front of the car as it would go (about 1/4", as specified in the bentley manual) then bolted down tight.

[J.DeFeo]

Hey, just thought I'd fill everyone in on this mindboggling problem. It WAS the driveshaft. The 535i has a bizzare driveshaft configuration where it has maybe 20 splines at the separation point right at the center carrier bearing. I didn't even notice this when I did my clutch, and put it back together maybe 1-2 splines off. A driveshaft shop found the original settings and put it back together correctly with a new bearing. Its vibration free now. What a nightmare, though, that could have been completely avoided.

So take this as a lesson folks - mark the **** out of everything when doing any driveshaft work. Don't even ask yourself, "should I mark it here?" JUST DO IT.

[Barney Paull-Edwards]

Nobodies` pointing at driveshaft joints??? I had one that was dry and gave trouble, now after 60 odd laps of two GP circuits, the other one is complaining,vibration when cold and/or loaded/altering the shaft angle.
Established the first one was duff by getting a small syringe and injecting grease through the boot direct onto the tracks,will have to do the same again........Joints are not dead, just dry,catch them pre wear and you save a bomb..

[Ross]

If the joint is dry it's NG, a grease injection will only forego the inevitable.
BPE makes a good case for joints though. Look for rust around the bearing caps. If brown stains it's certainly bad. Put the car up, in nuetral turn the shaft and check for ANY slop or clunk in the joints or stiffness while turning through a particular portion of the rotation.

[Barney Paull-Edwards]

Fair comment but in my limited experience of C.V. joints they will survive a fair time of normal use if you catch them early,true they are worn but as long as the tracks are not scored, they survive. You could cut the clamp, peel back the boot, lube and re-seal with a ty-wrap but I`me in the ulu and trying to persuade a spanish monkey to lift my car would be impossible! I just reached under with a syringe to each joint and noise/vibration went.