WTF: Is it E36's or just their drivers...

[Ferret]

(Any E36 drivers on this board, pls dont take it personally!)

So yeah, slightly shaken/disturbed this evening after getting home.

Seriously, do E36's in the states have as bad a reputation as in the UK? Here they tend to be riced out with a fart can exhaust and rear wing that wouldnt fit under your average multi-storey carpark with some young tit of a ricer driving them.

Sad really cos I think they're a genuinely nice looking car - halfway between the oldschool angry E30/34 and the more modern gens.

Anyway, I digress:

Coming home from a mates place near Swindon on the M4 this afternoon, motorway traffic slams to a halt. Cant see anything on our side of the motorway, come around the corner and jeeezus H christ. What's left of an E36 in the barrier on the other side of the carriageway, totally destroyed. Then we noticed the 3-400 yards of debris behind it before the next nearest bit of stopped traffic, where he's apparently clipped a truck by the look of it.

I have no idea what speed this cretin was doing but he must have been waaaay beyond even stupid limits. See this story wouldnt be so bad if the guy was injured or had killed himself in the crash because there's a kind of darwinism in action - he was out of the wreck apparently uninjured and running around. The guys kid is in a heap 100 yards away from the car with at least a dozen people around him/her and they're trying to get the wife out of the car :( Got past eventually and heard 15 minutes later on the radio that they'd closed the motorway in both directions due to a fatality.

Sometimes you try not to look, cant help it and then you wish you'd not been so damn stupid.

See I can deal with speed if it's just me in a car or (maybe a stupid statment) someone that knows what they're getting into and doesnt object, but ffs with your wife and kid in the car!? To leave that trail of debris behind the car he must have been at missile cruising speed, I hope he goes to prison for a very long time.

So yeah, bit shaken this evening - off to find a stiff drink...

[Barney Paull-Edwards]

E 36`s do that to people,trouble is they should not be able to get insurance much less breed.

[repenttokyo]

anyone who would drive at an insane speed with their family in the car obviously is not capable of making any responsible decisions.

[CharlesAFerg]

"cheap" BMW
because it is.

I also don't think it's built as well either.
Don't know what was up with that.

I have a friend like this, he's the guy who is like "I WANT A BMW"
A BMW!!!

God, doesn't even care, so he had daddy give him a loan, even though they're dirt poor and he doesn't want to go to college.

As you can tell, I lost respect for this guy - and I'm not just talking behind his back, I have said this all to him and I'll say it again. He needs to get his **** together instead of buying a car he can't afford, let alone making it look and drive like **** by abusing it every which way.


Same as the VW GTI kids, I saw one w/3 other people in the car going 90 on I-5 here in Oregon, just as I was getting onto 217 to get through Tigard to Beaverton... I cna't stand it. It's things like that which motivate me to get into the field of law enforcement...

[Barney Paull-Edwards]

Same in UK, Steer clear of E36`s and old GTI`S, kids. W were far more responsible, wer`nt we? Only excuse is less traffic and slower cars!

[pingu]

Sure we were more responsible, mostly. At school I remember reading something about the youth of the day being lazy and having no respect... but it was written by a Roman a couple of thousand years ago. I wish I could find it again.

[repenttokyo]

damn roman teens and their chariots!

[Denton]

Ehhh...different strokes.

A lot of you would hate the way I drive. I guess I just keep other drivers on their toes.

[Sam-Son]

Ehhh...different strokes.

A lot of you would hate the way I drive. I guess I just keep other drivers on their toes.
+1

[vuyodaddy]

I do 90mph in my e34 once in a while. But I promise I do it [fairly] safely and always signal!

That being said, what happened is unfortunate and accidents do happen, and its really too bad some people decide to do that with their family in the car.

[Denton]

I do 90mph in my e34 once in a while. But I promise I do it [fairly] safely and always signal!

That being said, what happened is unfortunate and accidents do happen, and its really too bad some people decide to do that with their family in the car.

I hit 105 today. :)

Under the right conditions, it's acceptable.

Where I get in trouble is two-lane passing. Too heavy of a car for the 2.5 liter. Not much riskier than a dicey pass on a two-lane. :p

[repenttokyo]

the conditions are never right when you have a your wife and child in the car.

[Denton]

the conditions are never right when you have a your wife and child in the car.

Swerving in and out of traffic, no, they aren't.

Keeping it under a buck-ten on a smooth Interstate? That's a lot more reasonable.

I wasn't disputing the OP's post, that's a shame and shouldn't have happened. Rather, it's the old-fart owners here who are on par with the octogenarians in Buicks.;)

[repenttokyo]

i suppose. I'm 27 years old, so not an old fart. I've also impacted a wall at a speed greater than 105 mph, so maybe my perspective on what constitutes reasonable highway speeds is different than yours.

[Denton]

i suppose. I'm 27 years old, so not an old fart. I've also impacted a wall at a speed greater than 105 mph, so maybe my perspective on what constitutes reasonable highway speeds is different than yours.

True.

Never had an encounter with an immobile object.

*knocks on wood*

[Qube]

I used to cruise at 140-170kph in a 100kph freeway. This freeway always has light traffic though... but now it's dangerous in it's OWN right:

http://www.thestar.com/News/Ontario/article/261595

Note the quote...


"There are going to be some hot-rock racers upset and there will also be some upset BMW owners."

[Denton]

I used to cruise at 140-170kph in a 100kph freeway. This freeway always has light traffic though... but now it's dangerous in it's OWN right:

http://www.thestar.com/News/Ontario/article/261595

Note the quote...

Good Lord!

They tried to pass a somewhat similar law in Florida and it was ruled unconstitutional. This law was about street racing rather than speeding.

[CharlesAFerg]

That being said, what happened is unfortunate and accidents do happen, and its really too bad some people decide to do that with their family in the car.

Accident my ass.

[TC535i]

I have a 540i 6-spd, a 535i 5-spd, a supercharged E36 318is 5-spd (Sparco seats, coilovers, etc), and (until yesterday) an E36 325is 5-spd.

Regardless of E-designation... I drive them all the same way. :)

[Sam-Son]

Theres always a debate about speeding and if its okay under the right conditions. I look at it like this: Speeding is driving beyond your personal limits and the limits of your car. Don't exceed either of these and you're okay.

[Denton]

Theres always a debate about speeding and if its okay under the right conditions. I look at it like this: Speeding is driving beyond your personal limits and the limits of your car. Don't exceed either of these and you're okay.

That's exactly it.

Being an enthusiast board, it's a safe bet that our limits are much higher than the woman driving the Explorer in the left lane doing the speed limit.

Instead of hitting the brakes when something bad is about to happen, I gun it and get past. It's been drilled into my head since birth to be a precision driver as opposed to a cautious driver.

The cautious drivers are the ones caught in the accidents due to the drivers who have no clue of what they're doing. If they used the gas pedal once in a while they'd be a lot better off.

[repenttokyo]

the thing is, it's the person in the explorer in the left lane doing the speed limit that makes driving very fast on public roads so dangerous. it doesn't matter what you are driving when someone pulls out in front of you doing 55 mph while you are in the triple digits. Not every road is like the interstate in North Dakota - some of them actually have curves and traffic. There are plenty of tracks where you can drive really really fast without becoming a danger to everyone else around you. Regarding statistics, no, it's not cautious drivers who get caught in accidents more than those who are not cautious. I mean, not to offend, but that's a teenage rationalization.

also, the fact that we are an enthusiast board doesn't mean we all drive like maniacs. I am an enthusiast about my car, yes, but I specifically bought it because it was much much slower than my previous car, and I wanted to get out of the world of fast cars for a while.

[Denton]

the thing is, it's the person in the explorer in the left lane doing the speed limit that makes driving very fast on public roads so dangerous. it doesn't matter what you are driving when someone pulls out in front of you doing 55 mph while you are in the triple digits. Not every road is like the interstate in North Dakota - some of them actually have curves and traffic. There are plenty of tracks where you can drive really really fast without becoming a danger to everyone else around you. Regarding statistics, no, it's not cautious drivers who get caught in accidents more than those who are not cautious. I mean, not to offend, but that's a teenage rationalization.

also, the fact that we are an enthusiast board doesn't mean we all drive like maniacs. I am an enthusiast about my car, yes, but I specifically bought it because it was much much slower than my previous car, and I wanted to get out of the world of fast cars for a while.

I don't disagree with you. What we need is driver's education (at least here in the U.S.) but it will never happen. It just won't.

I was also comparing cautious drivers to precision drivers. I would be willing to bet that the "cautious" (note use of quotes) causes more multi-vehicle accidents, while they are far less likely to slide off the road on their own than a precision driver. This is not data and therefore cannot be compared or collected. There are no statistics on this and it is just personal opinion.

I never said anything about driving like maniacs. I don't drive like a maniac. I don't really think that anyone thinks they drive like a maniac. Remember, EVERYBODY ON THIS GREEN EARTH thinks that they are a better-than-average driver. There are no exeptions to this mindset.

If I drove like a maniac and craved speed than I wouldn't be driving a 525iA.

And I do not speed in town/residential/populated zones. Not a good idea, very dangerous there.

[repenttokyo]

i would use the word "in-decisive" rather than cautious, I guess.

statistically, though, bmw drivers are involved in a lot of single driver accidents :p

[winfred]

not everybody can handle out of the ordinary maneuvers in their car to avoid the other *******, one of the most vivid stand outs in my mind was the time i had to light up the assend and walk the back of the car around the dildo that ran a stop sign and was about to t-bone me

[632 Regal]

i drive like an ass and the turn signal broke 3 years ago...altho I did use it one time to the Chi-town meet :D


not everybody can handle out of the ordinary maneuvers in their car to avoid the other *******, one of the most vivid stand outs in my mind was the time i had to light up the assend and walk the back of the car around the dildo that ran a stop sign and was about to t-bone me

[Denton]

not everybody can handle out of the ordinary maneuvers in their car to avoid the other *******, one of the most vivid stand outs in my mind was the time i had to light up the assend and walk the back of the car around the dildo that ran a stop sign and was about to t-bone me

I don't make anyone do anything really out of the ordinary.

Example: Four lane road, 45 MPH limit. Mercedes ML430 in the left lane doing 40ish. I'm doing 45 in the right lane coming up on her, about a car length back. She puts on her right turn signal (gotta give her credit :) ) and begins to move over. I can see that she's not even checking her side mirror, let alone looking back.

Do I slam on the brakes and forgive her stupidity? No. I slam my hand on the roundel on the steering wheel and keep going. No finger or anything like that.

I like to think I'm making others more aware but that's wishful thinking.

[Paul in NZ]

I don't make anyone do anything really out of the ordinary.

Example: Four lane road, 45 MPH limit. Mercedes ML430 in the left lane doing 40ish. I'm doing 45 in the right lane coming up on her, about a car length back. She puts on her right turn signal (gotta give her credit :) ) and begins to move over. I can see that she's not even checking her side mirror, let alone looking back.

Do I slam on the brakes and forgive her stupidity? No. I slam my hand on the roundel on the steering wheel and keep going. No finger or anything like that.

I like to think I'm making others more aware but that's wishful thinking.
A car length at 40 mph.?You put too much credit in other people.If she drifted out and you kept going and then she got a fright and SLAMMED on the brakes,you would hit her before you even got your foot onto the brake pedal.When thing go wrong things happen awfully fast.And thats at speeds of 100 km/hr/60 mph.You have got to allow for other people to do the wrong thing.

[Ferret]

A car length at 40 mph.?You put too much credit in other people.If she drifted out and you kept going and then she got a fright and SLAMMED on the brakes,you would hit her before you even got your foot onto the brake pedal.When thing go wrong things happen awfully fast.And thats at speeds of 100 km/hr/60 mph.You have got to allow for other people to do the wrong thing.

See, when I was learning to drive my Father told me something that has stuck with me to this day. It basically went something along the lines of:

'When on the road, assume everyone else is a complete f*cking p*llock, dont ever assume they're going to do something predictable because the instant you're forced to rely on that you're pretty much dead.'

I tend to agree with that and treat everyone else on the road as a brainless sheep, which has saved my car and probably my life more than once. You've only got a 50% chance of knowing what someone's going to do if you've got eye contact (ie at a junction,) but on a motorway/freeway they're facing away from you...

Yes, I'll admit I've driven agressively before and still do on occasion if really riled, but you'll find my foot is closer to the brake pedal than the gas pedal. I'll be slowing down as I enter what I'd think of as a dangerous distance - and my foot wont come off the brake until I'm out of it.

[Ferret]

Child Died:
http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/News/Article.aspx?articleID=5299

Apparently caused by a blowout.

Which means:
1) Extreme excess speed meant he couldnt bring the vehicle back in control, debris trail explained.
2) The legally required 5 point child seat wasnt fitted properly as she was ejected from the vehicle.

[632 Regal]

"A toddler died after being thrown from a car"

Apparantly improper car seat...

[winfred]

that pretty much covers it, see the above RIP 90 325ism




'When on the road, assume everyone else is a complete f*cking p*llock, dont ever assume they're going to do something predictable because the instant you're forced to rely on that you're pretty much dead.'

[whiskychaser]

Child Died:
http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/News/Article.aspx?articleID=5299

Apparently caused by a blowout.

Which means:
1) Extreme excess speed meant he couldnt bring the vehicle back in control, debris trail explained.
2) The legally required 5 point child seat wasnt fitted properly as she was ejected from the vehicle.
Yes he should have looked after his own better. But thats a hell of a price for anyone to pay.

[rob101]

Which means:
1) Extreme excess speed meant he couldnt bring the vehicle back in control, debris trail explained.

Does it? I didn't get an article when i clicked your link. but i would like you to explain how even at 60 mph or 70 mph that it isn't possible to loose control after having a blow out and have a fairly major accident on a freeway.

the seat thing was a bummer.

[Ferret]

Does it? I didn't get an article when i clicked your link. but i would like you to explain how even at 60 mph or 70 mph that it isn't possible to loose control after having a blow out and have a fairly major accident on a freeway.

the seat thing was a bummer.

It was more the near half mile of debris and personal belongings strewn across the motorway that indicated the extreme speed.

I mean seriously at 60, 70 mph you're not going to barell roll the car for very far, and that's if you do manage to even roll it at that kinda speed.

[rob101]

It was more the near half mile of debris and personal belongings strewn across the motorway that indicated the extreme speed.

I mean seriously at 60, 70 mph you're not going to barell roll the car for very far, and that's if you do manage to even roll it at that kinda speed.
unless your car suddenly veers into embankment subsequent to hmm...... a tyre blow out.
if you actually run sideways over a bank at that speed. you will roll quite a number of times.
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd-30/NCSA/Rpts/2002/809-438.pdf
NHTSA reports show that for single and multi-vehicle fatal rollover accidents involving passenger cars
48% were speeding and 52% not speeding.
if you look at the speed limits in which these accidents occur only 28% happen in areas with speed limits over 55 mph, 40% in areas with 55 mph and 33% in 50 and under mph
so i'd say the chances of getting killed in a roll over doing less than 70 mph and don't have a seat belt on
are pretty good actually.......
just my 2c

[Ferret]

I wonder why speed (along with a lot of other things) is such an internet hornets nest subject?

See this discussion was never about 'the child wouldnt have died if the guy was going 70' - the child was quite obviously turned into spam because the plank of a driver hadnt fitted the child into the harness properly. The child seat was scarred but intact, but still a good way away from the car and the dead kid. EDIT: It wouldnt have mattered what speed the car was doing - my point was going to be something along the lines of 'what were his chances of actually hitting the embankment at a much lower speed?'

Seriously if the child had been strapped into the seat and the seat secured into the car correctly the child would have had a good chance of survival - if it'd managed to somehow not get neck injuries in the roll or suffer brain damage.

[rob101]

I wonder why speed (along with a lot of other things) is such an internet hornets nest subject?

See this discussion was never about 'the child wouldnt have died if the guy was going 70' - the child was quite obviously turned into spam because the plank of a driver hadnt fitted the child into the harness properly. The child seat was scarred but intact, but still a good way away from the car and the dead kid. EDIT: It wouldnt have mattered what speed the car was doing - my point was going to be something along the lines of 'what were his chances of actually hitting the embankment at a much lower speed?'

Seriously if the child had been strapped into the seat and the seat secured into the car correctly the child would have had a good chance of survival - if it'd managed to somehow not get neck injuries in the roll or suffer brain damage.
rear tyre blow out is an extreme event I am not trying to debate the morals of speeding but everytime someone has a major accident isn't because of speed.
a blow out on a rear tyre can definitely cause that kind of accident. and from accident crash data, yes the kid would have had a good chance of surviving contrary to popular belief a roll over does not cause as many fatalities as other accident types such as frontal impact so long as the passengers are wearing seat belts. to quote the findings of that report:

Whether or not anoccupant is ejected from a vehicle that rolls over can mean the difference between living and dying. Of those occupants who were killed in fatal rollovers, 62 percent were ejected from the
vehicle compared with 23 percent of those who survived.
and also

Figure 22 shows that of all vehicle occupants in fatal rollovers, only 4 percent of
those using restraints were completely ejected compared with 53 percent of those who
were not using their restraints.
It is unlikely that the media would fail to mention that a person was suspected of speeding (which in this country at least is code for either exceeding the speed limit OR driving to fast for the conditions in the crash investigator's opinion a fact that most people are conviently (for PR of speed camera's sake) unaware of) especially in light of the pro-speed camera stance of the government that has indoctrinated people into believing that a number on a sign can save their life.

[whiskychaser]

It is unlikely that the media would fail to mention that a person was suspected of speeding
They may know something we dont -like the 'blowout' was caused by him hitting the crash barrier/other vehicle and shredding a tyre. They may also know he is going to be charged so they are only reporting the bold facts so as not to prejudice that.

Our cops call them 'incidents' now - accident infers no party was responsible.
I think this was Ferret's original point

[Dave M]

Whether or not anoccupant is ejected from a vehicle that rolls over can mean the difference between living and dying. Of those occupants who were killed in fatal rollovers, 62 percent were ejected from the
vehicle compared with 23 percent of those who survived.
and also

Figure 22 shows that of all vehicle occupants in fatal rollovers, only 4 percent of
those using restraints were completely ejected compared with 53 percent of those who
were not using their restraints.


Reminded me of an OT post I made recently

Dragstrip rollover =lucky man (http://www.stupidvideos.com/video/stunts/Luckiest_man_alive_/)

[repenttokyo]

i've had a front tire blowout at 65 mph in a pickup truck, I was able to steer to the side of the road.

[Dave M]

i've had a front tire blowout at 65 mph in a pickup truck, I was able to steer to the side of the road.

Not trying my hand at 'one-up-manship' or anything ;), but i had a wheel fall of my vw at 100km/h. One donut later, we were safe and sound on the side of the Trans Canada. All four wheel bolt sheared off at -40 celcius. Stole a bolt from every other wheel and drove the remaining 700km with 3 bolts/wheel.

Phew.

[repenttokyo]

damn, that sucks - nothing like changing a tire in the dead of winter :(

[E34 530]

I do 90mph in my e34 once in a while. But I promise I do it [fairly] safely and always signal!

That being said, what happened is unfortunate and accidents do happen, and its really too bad some people decide to do that with their family in the car.

90 is my daily commute to work :p

[ThoreauHD]

I've been driving since I was 11 on a farm. And earlier if you consider tractors, odyssey's, and motorbikes to be roadworthy. I drive aggressively when appropriate and with the flow of traffic when not. I can't ever remember being in an accident before, but have had close calls. Most times I got out of a situation by gunning it rather than slamming the breaks and hoping going slow will make it better. It doesn't work that way. Physics doesn't care. The goal is to not be there. So either move your ass or kiss it goodbye. It's like autobahn driving really. I like the autobahn, except for the bumps.

The people that I see causing the most accidents are people without situational awareness. The same can be said for anything really. Clueless fksticks not observing whats around them and going dogshit slow are who end up t-boning another car or slinking through a stop sign at 35 mph because are they thinking about what kind of cereal to buy at kroger's.

Speed isn't what kills people. Stupid unaware people kill people. Anything over 35 mph is deadly. If you think going 55 in a 65 mpg zone will save you, you will be disappointed. I think if more people went to bmw driving schools through their local bmw cca, they would be better off. You have to know the limits of yourself and your vehicle, or else you will panic when presented by a 75 yr old lady calmly broadsiding you into a telephone poll.

They say that US highways aren't made like the autobahn, so speeds have to be lower. I say ********. Our drivers are stupid. The US highways most times exceed autobahn lengths for deceleration and acceleration. In any case, I respectfully disagree that speed is a factor over 35 mph. The space shuttle can go 130,000 mph through a minfield of debris and come out ok because the astonauts are trained not to run into that ****. Just my opinion. You wanna live, remove yourself from dangerous situations by any means necessary- even it it means going 90 in a 55.

[repenttokyo]

does everyone here live in really straight and flat parts of the country?

[Ferret]

does everyone here live in really straight and flat parts of the country?

Apparently so.

[whiskychaser]

does everyone here live in really straight and flat parts of the country?
Our roads were built by the Romans who didnt know how to make bends so we dont have that problem:

http://www.brims.co.uk/romans/building.html

[Ferret]

Our roads were built by the Romans who didnt know how to make bends so we dont have that problem:

http://www.brims.co.uk/romans/building.html

Hrr... try driving in a straight line through the lake district and see what happens :D

Just dont meet me on that rather sharp bend - I drive like a local round there and have been known to charge down the odd bus :p

[JoshsE34-M50]

That's it exactly- It all has to do with decision making, and making your intentions clear to other drivers about what you are going to do. In other words, so they KNOW you are going to slow down for them, or NOT slow for down, whether you are planning to change lanes, etc. I try to stay away from, or get far around and put distance between myself and anyone driving in an unpredictable way. Some people can't even figure out who "goes next" at a four-way intersection with stop signs- imagine what they
must be thinking at 65 mph.

[Macv]

I'm with a few of you. I'm not one to drive the limit.... or straight, but I know when to chill and drive safe. I'm the same way on my bike.

[Alexlind123]

I've been driving since I was 11 on a farm. And earlier if you consider tractors, odyssey's, and motorbikes to be roadworthy. I drive aggressively when appropriate and with the flow of traffic when not. I can't ever remember being in an accident before, but have had close calls. Most times I got out of a situation by gunning it rather than slamming the breaks and hoping going slow will make it better. It doesn't work that way. Physics doesn't care. The goal is to not be there. So either move your ass or kiss it goodbye. It's like autobahn driving really. I like the autobahn, except for the bumps.

The people that I see causing the most accidents are people without situational awareness. The same can be said for anything really. Clueless fksticks not observing whats around them and going dogshit slow are who end up t-boning another car or slinking through a stop sign at 35 mph because are they thinking about what kind of cereal to buy at kroger's.

Speed isn't what kills people. Stupid unaware people kill people. Anything over 35 mph is deadly. If you think going 55 in a 65 mpg zone will save you, you will be disappointed. I think if more people went to bmw driving schools through their local bmw cca, they would be better off. You have to know the limits of yourself and your vehicle, or else you will panic when presented by a 75 yr old lady calmly broadsiding you into a telephone poll.

They say that US highways aren't made like the autobahn, so speeds have to be lower. I say ********. Our drivers are stupid. The US highways most times exceed autobahn lengths for deceleration and acceleration. In any case, I respectfully disagree that speed is a factor over 35 mph. The space shuttle can go 130,000 mph through a minfield of debris and come out ok because the astonauts are trained not to run into that ****. Just my opinion. You wanna live, remove yourself from dangerous situations by any means necessary- even it it means going 90 in a 55.

I agree completely.

[repenttokyo]

Some people can't even figure out who "goes next" at a four-way intersection with stop signs- imagine what they
must be thinking at 65 mph.


man, that's so true.