How to make steering more responsive ????

[Iwo]

I'm making list of things that I'm going to change/upgrade on my new car.
First thing that I want to improve is steering.. I guess I got spoiled with E46 M3 steering because my 525i is so dull in the middle that I can't stand it ???
Is there anything that I can do to change steering ratio ???? or at least make it heavier ??? I know bushings are one option (are those from Ebay any good ???) but what else can I do ?????
and if bushings are the only solution which one should I get ?????

[Interceptor]

I'm making list of things that I'm going to change/upgrade on my new car.
First thing that I want to improve is steering.. I guess I got spoiled with E46 M3 steering because my 525i is so dull in the middle that I can't stand it ???
Is there anything that I can do to change steering ratio ???? or at least make it heavier ??? I know bushings are one option (are those from Ebay any good ???) but what else can I do ?????
and if bushings are the only solution which one should I get ?????

While E46 has rack & pinion steering, E34 has recirculating ball which by construction is less direct and there's really nothing drastic you can do about it. There are a few changes you can do to make things a bit better:
- tigthen that big nut under the wheel (when you remove the plastic cover under it), but do not overtighten it or else the telescoping adjustment won't work
- adjust the steering box: http://www.bmwe34.net/e34main/maintenance/steering/steering_box.htm
- upgrade to polyurethane bushings

[Sam-Son]

While E46 has rack & pinion steering, E34 has recirculating ball which by construction is less direct and there's really nothing drastic you can do about it. There are a few changes you can do to make things a bit better:
- tigthen that big nut under the wheel (when you remove the plastic cover under it), but do not overtighten it or else the telescoping adjustment won't work
- adjust the steering box: http://www.bmwe34.net/e34main/maintenance/steering/steering_box.htm
- upgrade to polyurethane bushings
The big nut under the steering column? any pics to be a little bit more descriptive?

[Interceptor]

The big nut under the steering column? any pics to be a little bit more descriptive?

http://www.bmwe34.net/e34main/trouble/Data/Steering%20nut.jpg

http://www.bmwe34.net/e34main/trouble/steeringplay.htm

[Bin_jammin]

I'm making list of things that I'm going to change/upgrade on my new car.
First thing that I want to improve is steering.. I guess I got spoiled with E46 M3 steering because my 525i is so dull in the middle that I can't stand it ???
Is there anything that I can do to change steering ratio ???? or at least make it heavier ??? I know bushings are one option (are those from Ebay any good ???) but what else can I do ?????
and if bushings are the only solution which one should I get ?????


Well, I don't know how well known or documented it is, but I was recently installing new parts onto a friend's 535im. He had just purchased an m5 front end setup, which came with steering box, center link, tie rods... pretty much the works. When it arrived, the left center link post had been bashed when being disassembled, all mushed over and useless. I had the front end from my e32 parts car laying around (complete) and it had fairly low miles on it. Took it off the shelf, gave it a quick inspection, and determined it was in good shape.

We were trying to get the car ready for show-n-shine, and it was about 1am. on Sunday, the day of. I put the front end together out of pieces from the m5 setup (the steering box was going on another 5 series he owns) and the e32 setup. Put it all together and the front tires were MASSIVELY toed in. I couldn't figure it out, it was like 2am, and I was exhausted from days of no sleep. Turns out that the center links on the e32 and the e34 are different in once small way. The ears that stick out on the sides that are where the tie rods attach are about an inch longer on the e32. If I had had access to an alignment shop I would have been able to reset the toe, but I had not.

Now here's where it gets interesting, if you had the longer ears on a car, it would seemingly give you faster turn-in by giving you more leverage on the tie-rods. I'll grab my camera and take pics of the two pieces next to each other.

[Sam-Son]

http://www.bmwe34.net/e34main/trouble/Data/Steering%20nut.jpg

http://www.bmwe34.net/e34main/trouble/steeringplay.htm
thanks

[gale]

A smaller steering wheel will give you a quicker feel for turn in. I went from a stock wheel, approx. 395 mm, to an M-tech 2 wheel, 370 mm dia, and was pleasantly surprised how it made the steering feel quicker.

[Interceptor]

A smaller steering wheel will give you a quicker feel for turn in. I went from a stock wheel, approx. 395 mm, to an M-tech 2 wheel, 370 mm dia, and was pleasantly surprised how it made the steering feel quicker.

Same here. But it also made the steering heavier! And upgrading to 235 front tires made it even more heavy. In some situations it feels like it's not power-assisted... :D

[Sam-Son]

I've got the Mtech3 and 235's up front and I think that the steering feel is perfect, but I would like to reduce the play and a more direct ratio would be a dream

[rob101]

Now here's where it gets interesting, if you had the longer ears on a car, it would seemingly give you faster turn-in by giving you more leverage on the tie-rods. I'll grab my camera and take pics of the two pieces next to each other.
um, why do you think leverage = faster turn in. if you don't move the rack it may make the angle that the steering arms are at a higher angle and you'll lose mechanical advantage in that respect. that is if i understand you are proposing to move the steering pickup outwards more from the centre of the hub.

[Iwo]

Hmm.., so is the M5 steering ratio better ???
If I would get all the M5 steering parts would they fit my 525 ???

[Bin_jammin]

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l287/Bin_jammin/DSCN0765.jpg


Here you can see where the e32 has a longer tab for the tie rod to bolt through. This DOES change the angle, but being a longer arm it INCREASES mechanical leverage to the tie rod.

My hypothesis on the reason this exists is that even though the e32 and e34 we essentially the same from the firewall forward, the e32 would have had the v12 as an option, and a lot more weight to it in general. This would be a lot more weight to accelerate in a different direction around the polar moment of inertia. As near as I can tell other than alignment settings is the only change between the two, and looking at it it seems like it would give a faster feeling turn-in, thus enabling the heavier car to handle better.

This is all theory, any suspension people back me/shoot me down on this?

[rob101]

the e32 and e34 have a different track by about 60 mm in the front.
this would explain the difference in length of the centre tie rod.
i thought you meant the offset of the steering link pickup relative to the centre of the hub which would change the advantage.

[Ross]

Your biggest and easiest improvement will be tires. A shorter and/or stiffer sidewall will do what you want. Also the toe adjustment can be set closer to zero. Tire pressure is another way as is fooling with the sway bar stiffness.

[rob101]

Your biggest and easiest improvement will be tires. A shorter and/or stiffer sidewall will do what you want. Also the toe adjustment can be set closer to zero. Tire pressure is another way as is fooling with the sway bar stiffness.
yeah toe out will work. it does make the car less stable at speed though.

[Barney Paull-Edwards]

No matter what you do it will not be as responsive as a good R&P set up. That said mine has all the hard bushes ever made and the one thing that made the most difference was tyres,235`s for practicality, 245`s for looks but if you get the chance try some slicks, that way you will find out fast which bush is worn,fast.The subframe bushes without bruno`s delrins move far enough to allow the tyres to hit, and on mine that was over an inch and took all the writing off the sidewall, fun tho!

[Sam-Son]

No matter what you do it will not be as responsive as a good R&P set up. That said mine has all the hard bushes ever made and the one thing that made the most difference was tyres,235`s for practicality, 245`s for looks but if you get the chance try some slicks, that way you will find out fast which bush is worn,fast.The subframe bushes without bruno`s delrins move far enough to allow the tyres to hit, and on mine that was over an inch and took all the writing off the sidewall, fun tho!
wacky