$775 Oxygen sensor in NC

[Jon K]

Ok I am beyond enraged right now. My sister is in Winston-Salem, NC @ Wake Forest and she called upset late last week saying her car (which she has down there) makes a thunking noise that she can feel in the shifter and steering wheel (?). Shes very difficult to talk to - she doesn't know where it's coming from, the circumstances that cause it - nothing. She just said it makes a bad noise and shakes. Then she popped the hood and said the motor is shaking. It's a 1995 530i - the V8 always sort of moves a little bit. So, I have no idea what to do. The car is a LONG WAY from here (PA). So my mom has her drive it to the dealer (Flow BMW of Winston-Salem) which is only 4 miles from her school.

I get an e-mail today from my mother saying that they diagnosed the car as needing an oxygen sensor. What-the-hell. I did oxygen sensors on the car < 2 years ago (both). How the hell could they diagnose a thunking/noise to an oxygen sensor. I am extremely irritated right now because I am not near the car and they're pulling strings. My mother followed that e-mail up with a price estimate of $775 for an oxygen sensor. First, NO, this mechanical issue is not an oxygen sensor - I am thinking guibo (which I replaced 2 years ago) or a CSB (which I did not). Second, who the hell in their right mind keeps a straight face when they tell someone over the phone that a car needs an oxygen sensor for a V8 that can be accessed without lifting the car, for $775.

I feel that they are jeopardizing my sisters safety - if this car is making thunking noises and shes 19 in NC by herself at school and I cannot look at it, she's going to drive it based on their diagnosis of a failed oxygen sensor?!

At first I was frustrated that they said O2 sensor - then I almost punched my desk when I saw how badly they are trying to rip my mother and sister. Its a 530, it has TWO oxygen sensors. Even at two, nearly $1000? I am making a phone call, and it may not be pretty.

[Ross]

Find a local BMW club chapter and get a recommendation from a member for a shop.
Have her get her car the F out of that dealership.
Even if the guibo fails there is way to much stuff in the way for it to fall. Besides didn't mythbusters blow the crap out of the pole vaulting story?
Maybe a member here will help her.
Boils my blood to hear this stuff!
Post the name of the dealer so everyone knows.

[Jon K]

Ross believe me as soon as I get my mother on the phone it's out of there. My mom is no fool either ('87 325e) it's just sickening to hear them try and tell a 19 year old girl she needs to spend $1,000 on an electrical sensor that is NOT causing a thunking noise. I posted the dealer name - it's Flow BMW of Winston-Salem, NC.

[repenttokyo]

$775 sounds like a normal price for bmw dealer parts in Canada.

[Jon K]

$775 sounds like a normal price for bmw dealer parts in Canada.

The part is $98. Moreover, an O2 sensor (why one, on a V8?) does not make a thunking noise.

[Torque]

Why the hell did she go to the dealer anyway ... look up a decent independednt shop online and tell her to go there if you can't make it.

But in all honesty, if I had a sister in a similar situation, I'd manage to take 2 days off from work/school, load up my tools and go see WTF is up.

[clevertd]

Wow, that is ridiculous. I'm in Raleigh, about an hour and a half east of W.S. and from Charlotte, just a little over an hour south of W.S. Let me know if you need the name of a shop, I'm 100% positive I could find one on the local forums or if you'd rather sign up for them and ask yourself: nceuro.org and carolinaeuros.com

[repenttokyo]

The part is $98. Moreover, an O2 sensor (why one, on a V8?) does not make a thunking noise.


i'm not debating the clunking noise, but if you lived where I live, you would be outraged by prices like that on a regular basis. A brake caliper here, without the mounting bracket, is $300 - and that's despite our currency being worth 4% more than yours. It's ridiculous.

[Macv]

I'd beat ass. Thats really low of a "supposedly" credited BMW facility.

[Sam-Son]

With my limited mechanical knowledge-maybe the preload settings on the center bearing? My car has a leaky injector and every once in a while too much if it sits the car will smoke and rattle and shake until all the excess fuel is burned off. that's the best I can come up with with the little info given. I can only imagine how pissed you guys must be

[Jon K]

I spent another 30 mins with sister on the phone - you have to understand how difficult it is to get her to explain something. Its not a clunk - its a light vibration she felt through the shifter/steering wheel. O2 sensor? I still do not buy it. Guy says the car has no power and feels like it wants to stall. I am thinking MAF sensor.

[Ross]

NFW to diagnose it like this Jon. Sounds like it's just running rough from here.
Probably another failed nikasil motor.
Just kidding.

[Tiger]

I think you are right on JonK... about the MAF.

[bubba966]

Jon, send your sister here http://www.kormanfastbmw.com/

I just happened to have bought my car from Winston-Salem earlier this year. And when the previous owner of my car wanted good non-dealer work he took it there and they took proper car of him. In fact they fixed a thing or two that Flow BMW had screwed up on the car while they were fixing it.

[Jon K]

NFW to diagnose it like this Jon. Sounds like it's just running rough from here.
Probably another failed nikasil motor.
Just kidding.

Ross don't throw things out in the open - its an alusil motor

[repenttokyo]

NFW to diagnose it like this Jon. Sounds like it's just running rough from here.
Probably another failed nikasil motor.
Just kidding.

lol.

[Jon K]

Sorry didn't see Ross joking - Korman huh, it sucks I didn't have a choice on short notice she took it in on Saturday morning. We'll see - I am going to talk to the guy on the phone.

[Torque]

I spent another 30 mins with sister on the phone - you have to understand how difficult it is to get her to explain something. Its not a clunk - its a light vibration she felt through the shifter/steering wheel. O2 sensor? I still do not buy it. Guy says the car has no power and feels like it wants to stall. I am thinking MAF sensor.The guy ...

What does your sister say about the power? She's the one that's been driving this car for years ... she'll know if it feels like it has no power.

[Jon K]

Well she and the guy both say the car wants to stall off a standing stop. It's screaming MAF to me - not O2's

O2's are usually a check engine light constantly. She said she saw a CEL for like 5 seconds, then it went out.

[repenttokyo]

could also be a vacuum leak or a fuel delivery problem.

[Jon K]

I know :( Could be a ton of **** I could diagnose but I am not there.

[Tiger]

V8 are pretty reliable car... I owned it for 8 years now... Vacuum leak can be the intake gasket (very common) and the idle control valve that is underneath that...

MAF is a possibility if it shoot out that MAF or O2 engine code... but easily verified by testing the components.

Other than that... I never had any problem.

[Jon K]

Question for the gurus - if I have her unplug the MAF - it should run better, if the MAF is misreading, right?

[bubba966]

Question for the gurus - if I have her unplug the MAF - it should run better, if the MAF is misreading, right?

That's what I've heard as well. But don't run it for extended periods with the MAF disconnected, do that only for diagnosing a MAF problem.

And yeah, have her take it to Korman.They know E34's better, and charge rather reasonable rates looking at the receipts of stuff they did to my car before I bought it.

OEM O2's for the 530 list at $202/each. Even if they wanted 25% over list (seems that most dealers charge 20+% over list) that'd make $500 for a pair of O2's, and it certainly should cost $275 to install a pair of O2's. I've not seen the underneath of a 530 yet, but I'd imagine it's like my 540. Which would make it insanely easy to change them out.

[Ferret]

Question for the gurus - if I have her unplug the MAF - it should run better, if the MAF is misreading, right?

Correct, but it will take both the MAF and the O2 sensors (afaik) out of play... it wont give you a positive diagnosis of the exact component but it'll tell you there's something wrong with the metering rather than a mechanical fault.

On the uk E39 boards they constantly bitch about BMW dealers diagnosing O2 sensors because of a vaccuum leak or MAF failure - the ECU will throw an O2 code whenever there's a metering fault somewhere. The only exception to this is when the MAF fails electrically, a la unplugged MAF.

[repenttokyo]

Try this: unplug the battery long enough to wipe the memory in the computer. Replug the battery and start the car. The car will run in closed loop for the first 5-10 minutes (don't know how long it lasts on the e34) and won't be reading any data from the MAF. If it runs properly....could be an indication.

I used to do this on Ford V8's to run in closed loop when we suspected a MAF or other sensor problem.

[Jon K]

I have the dealer unplugging the MAF and running it and then pulling O2s and seeing if they're super fouled or not.

Why am I telling the dealer how to fix this? Ugh.

[M20Turbo]

[QUOTE=bubba966]Jon, send your sister here http://www.kormanfastbmw.com/

Hey Jon.... Ray Korman in Greensboro is where I had my engine built (I know, I bought and did not build) in 2001, and I live in New Mexico. Ray has been very helpful to me over the years. I know it's frustrating to fix/diagnose anything form long distance.

[DanDombrowski]

When its not reading sensor data, I'm pretty sure thats considered open loop.

Closed loop is when it does modify based on output data.

[Jon K]

The Dealer is saying they're getting an "open circuit" fault on the one O2 sensor - I am letting them replace it (For like $300 ugh). I'll post when it's done...

[repenttokyo]

When its not reading sensor data, I'm pretty sure thats considered open loop.

Closed loop is when it does modify based on output data.


yeah, sorry, used the wrong term.

[Sam-Son]

Dumb question but when you guys Say MAF you mean the sensor right?

[repenttokyo]

ya.

[Sam-Son]

now maybe I ought to delete that post so nobody else sees it:p

[timandbim]

too late sam-son -whaahaa (i've asked way worse... check my last post about ground straps)
my sympathies Jon... you'll get there. at least it's not a canadian dealer... (repenttokyo, i HEAR you, man.. it's like twice the price!)

[repenttokyo]

now maybe I ought to delete that post so nobody else sees it:p


there are no dumb questions, man.

[Denton]

could also be a vacuum leak or a fuel delivery problem.

Not sure that would throw a CEL.

Methinks MAF.

[repenttokyo]

Not sure that would throw a CEL.

Methinks MAF.


a vacuum leak could throw a CEL, and a fuel delivery problem could throw a CEL if there is a lean condition - at least i hope it would :p

[Denton]

a vacuum leak could throw a CEL, and a fuel delivery problem could throw a CEL if there is a lean condition - at least i hope it would :p

Hrmmm...I've never gotten a CEL with either of those...but maybe that was a strange condition.

[MBXB]

At that rate, you could buy a pair from oxygensensors.com, fly down, and pop them in her driveway!



The Dealer is saying they're getting an "open circuit" fault on the one O2 sensor - I am letting them replace it (For like $300 ugh). I'll post when it's done...

[stargazer_61]

Jon,

Flow sucks, no doubt about that. I'll go there in an emergency, but that is all. Crown in Greensboro isn't much better but it's the lesser of two evils.

Here are a couple of places your sister can take her 530 for service:

Motorsport Connections
2556 Landmark Drive
Winston-Salem
1-888-463-2591 • 336-659-8988

http://www.motorsport-connections.com

Mann Motorsports in Greensboro, near the airport.
Their web site is currently off line but here's the link:

http://www.tmannmotorsports.com/

email me if you have any questions or need some local help:

jspivey "at" grassusa "dot" com

[Jon K]

Welp flow bmw replaced the oxygen sensor for a deal! $420 or so... lol.

Whatever, now my sister says the car seems to work fine. Does that surprise me? Yeah it does. But, apparently the fault was an open circuit on the O2. So, who knows... I just want it to be fixed for her!

[Ross]

There is probably a minimum diagnostic time built in, full BM retail for parts the "shop charge' (don't get me started on that)and some other miscellaneous you'll find on the bill.
Like you said, at least it's fixed and she didn't get pounded as hard as they would have liked too.
It takes money to operate those pretty stores.