Japanese e34 M5's

[RockJock]

In the last year I’ve come across two low mileage Japanese M5’s (one with 52K miles and the other with about 60K miles on the clock) with rough looking interiors. In both cases the interiors looked to be in worse shape than the interior of my 89 535’ with 150K miles on it. Drooping headliners plus the leather on all four door handles had shrunk and was peeled back (extreme fluctuations in humidity!?!?...... I dunno). The bodies looked pretty good but I’m wondering if “clocking” is a common occurrence in Japan. Anybody else here encounter low mileage Japanese e34’s with suspiciously “ratty” looking interiors?? Unfortunately both Carfax & Autocheck puked on their VINs.

[Sam-Son]

Why is it more common in asian E34's?

[Ken35i]

I belive I do. My car has probably come from an Asian country, most likely Hong Kong (I've found a couple of Hong Kong coins in the car). May have been imported by the PO or the owner before him.

The interior is a bit ratty. The interior door panels are quite shabby, like the glue holding them together is becoming unstuck (high humidity?). And the leather seats are fadded a bit but no torn or anything.

Clocking is an issue, I belive mine has :( . Has about 95k miles (the odometer is in miles) apparently it's not that hard to whined them back. I've read about it in a book called 'The dog and lemon guide' or somthing of the like which gives reviews of pretty much every car available in Australia and under the E34 article they did warn of Asian imported E34's with wound-back odometers (I found this out after I'd bought the car :p ).

So yeah, food for thought. Mechanicaly wise they probably are good (BMW:D ). Exterior...well if they've been in high humid environment they might be rust in the usual spots (maybe more-so).

Anywho, home time. Got to run.
Hope that helps.

[vince]

Certainly sounds like the cars were clocked, but it also sounds like they were stored outdoors or somewhere hot and very dry or very humid from the interior damage.

vince

[RockJock]

I wonder if sitting in a shipping container (or ro-ro) at sea for a few weeks can have a significant effect?!?!

[Dragunov]

Well, shogun said japs don't use their cars. Either that's the case, or they clock them all back.

[bsell]

In the last year I’ve come across two low mileage Japanese M5’s (one with 52K miles and the other with about 60K miles on the clock) with rough looking interiors. In both cases the interiors looked to be in worse shape than the interior of my 89 535’ with 150K miles on it. Drooping headliners plus the leather on all four door handles had shrunk and was peeled back (extreme fluctuations in humidity!?!?...... I dunno). The bodies looked pretty good but I’m wondering if “clocking” is a common occurrence in Japan. Anybody else here encounter low mileage Japanese e34’s with suspiciously “ratty” looking interiors?? Unfortunately both Carfax & Autocheck puked on their VINs.

I know when I took ownership of my 525 in Tokyo, the title showed the previous owners and mileage at ownership turnovers. Unfortunately, when I did the export certificate all of that history dissapeared and I didn't get a copy of the old title. The car had 96,000 kilometers on the clock when I picked it up. I was concerned with getting duped by a 'clocker' but the car looked to match the low mileage and the title had reasonable mileage between transfers...

I have one door panel that has a corner of the covering pulling away. I wonder if it is related to the high humidity and high temperatures seen in Tokyo over the summers. The car appears to have spent time outside without the rear windows tinted as the leather on the rear headrests is rather 'dry'. But the paint is good to go.

Brian

[repenttokyo]

I wonder if sitting in a shipping container (or ro-ro) at sea for a few weeks can have a significant effect?!?!


no. not like what you are describing.

[repenttokyo]

None of the cars that I have seen from Japan have demonstrated excessive wear that would not be consistent with their mileage. I think in this case, the simplest explanation is the true one.

[RockJock]

Well, shogun said japs don't use their cars. Either that's the case, or they clock them all back.

we'll i've seen a couple low mileage 500E's come from Japan with pristine interiors so i know they weren't heavily used ..... (maybe MB interiors hold up better but I think Winfred would disagree :D )

perhaps much, much shorter distances, lots of stop n' go driving, thus frequently getting in/out of the car leads to quicker interior wear?!?!?!

[leicesterboy15]

My Dad has got an imported Mazda Bongo (no thats not a typo). Low miles, mechanically perfect, body is perfect, not a mark on it, nice highly specc'd model but when he go it the interior was filthy as hell. Nothing was damaged I was just surprised how dirty it was in contrast to the outside, I wouldn't have thought it was clocked as it feels like its got low mileage but you never know.

[Ken35i]

The Japanese don't keep their cars very long. I belive new Australian delivered Japanese cars have used Japanese engines (they are in such good condition).

But an E34? In Japan, that's ancient. They may have just been sitting somewhere not being sold then eventually exported. *shrug*

But an E34 M5 would be somewhat collectable, at leased someday. May be a hidden tresure chest in the land of the rising sun.

[Sam-Son]

Torque that new sig is hot

[shogun]

In general japanese cars have low mileage, especially when they are owned in areas like greater Tokyo. No one is using the car to drive to office, too much time consuming and that would require another parking lot near the office which would set you back another 200-400 $ a month, if one is available.

In the country side they are more often used to commute, but still not that high mileage than in other countries.
I have noticed that cars parked in non covered parking lots have probs with falling headliners and the wood color also deteriotates much more compared to cars which are parked in covered parking lots or underground garages.
Then you have to consider that Japan is a very long country, in the north it has the border to Siberia, down under there is Okinawa Island with all year round tropical climate. But cars from Okinawa are not recommended among used car dealers, too much salt in the air on these islands.
In the north there is a the problem of strong winters. So best is to buy a car which was owned before by an owners on the Pacific Ocean side somewhere between north of Tokyo down to Osaka or even more down to Kyushu Island.
In general I can say that there is not much tinkering with mileage, these old E34 and E32 are not worth it in Japan, not much demand, usually they are exported, just to get rid of them.

[Torque]

In general japanese cars have low mileage, especially when they are owned in areas like greater Tokyo. No one is using the car to drive to office, too much time consuming and that would require another parking lot near the office which would set you back another 200-400 $ a month, if one is available.

In the country side they are more often used to commute, but still not that high mileage than in other countries.
I have noticed that cars parked in non covered parking lots have probs with falling headliners and the wood color also deteriotates much more compared to cars which are parked in covered parking lots or underground garages.
Then you have to consider that Japan is a very long country, in the north it has the border to Siberia, down under there is Okinawa Island with all year round tropical climate. But cars from Okinawa are not recommended among used car dealers, too much salt in the air on these islands.
In the north there is a the problem of strong winters. So best is to buy a car which was owned before by an owners on the Pacific Ocean side somewhere between north of Tokyo down to Osaka or even more down to Kyushu Island.
In general I can say that there is not much tinkering with mileage, these old E34 and E32 are not worth it in Japan, not much demand, usually they are exported, just to get rid of them.How does one go about buying a car from Japan and bringing it to the USA?

[ScarletParadigm]

My 1989 525i (87,000km) was imported from Japan three years ago and had drooping headlining and a peeling door panel. The odometer reading I believe to be genuine, as the car arrived with a full service history. Worse was the state of the brakes and suspension and rust in the underbody. The gelcoat on the paint was peeling but appeared to be a refinish anyway. Though they don't use their cars much, the Japanese don't look after their cars as they are worth nothing a few short years (because of the local car tax laws) - so why would they spend money on a car that's worth nothing anyway.

Few words of advice - just be sure about what you are buying is what it appears to be, as secondhand car importers make it hard to get back at them afterwards.

[Ross]

Good info Shogun.
Having said this I feel the need to remind the OP of the durability of BM interior materials. Other than a falling headliner it takes a lot of time, neglect and or abuse to seriously harm the interior materials on these cars. If it's ratty inside then it likely is very high miles or owned by a real slob.

[sneekens]

In Japan, it is considered a (serious) crime to change the odometer reading... The best way I can describe the interior deteriorating is because of the heat when parked outside for a long time... I've seen imported bmw's and benz's from japan which looked brand new outside and looked nasty in the inside, with mileage as low as 30,000 in kms... but because of age, of course you have to change bushings, ball joints, belts, etc... but the mechanicals will go a long long way... and yes, they keep special cars like the M's and Alpina's and the are willing to let go for a steep price (all worth it though)... And last thing, if you can prove that your mileage has been tampered, you can return the car or even file a case and surely you'll win....

[repenttokyo]

In Japan, it is considered a (serious) crime to change the odometer reading... The best way I can describe the interior deteriorating is because of the heat when parked outside for a long time... I've seen imported bmw's and benz's from japan which looked brand new outside and looked nasty in the inside, with mileage as low as 30,000 in kms... but because of age, of course you have to change bushings, ball joints, belts, etc... but the mechanicals will go a long long way... and yes, they keep special cars like the M's and Alpina's and the are willing to let go for a steep price (all worth it though)... And last thing, if you can prove that your mileage has been tampered, you can return the car or even file a case and surely you'll win....


good luck returning your car when it is an ocean away...

[shogun]

best way I can describe the interior deteriorating is because of the heat when parked outside for a long time

That is the point!

My car always has been parked
1. indoors in a climate controlled garage by previous owner for first 4 years
2. open garage in basement with good air circulation since I own it from 1994.

When I compare the cars with my friends cars, there are big differences. The sun can make a lot of damages
-hanging headliner
-fading color of the paint
-shrinking door seals and other rubber parts
-interior material color changes

BUT, a japanese car only has corrosion if it comes from some islands where the salt content in the air is high, or older cars from the northern prefectures which borders to siberia/russia with a lot of snow and very low temperatures, in the old days a lot of salt has been used to clear the roads.
Every japanese dealer can tell you by prefecture to buy or not to buy.
One of my wifes old school mates is a used car dealer, he says stay away from cars from Okinawa and some other islands I should not mention here.

But in genral corrosion/rust is not a problem here, I have repaired and parted so mant E32 cars meanwhile, never found such corrosions as they show for example on cars from the U.K.
I for example would never buy an ex U.K. car, not because the service or maintenance was not good, the corrosion/rust is still a big problem there.

[sneekens]

good luck returning your car when it is an ocean away...


good luck to them if they don't get it back or return my money or change it... a criminal charge is heavier than shipping charges.... especially if they grade it 4BB which sometimes is not correct... mileage is just one of a few things they can't tamper... I had one returned by the way... (tampered mileage).. they arranged everything for bringing the car back, then money transferred back to me...

[repenttokyo]

good luck to them if they don't get it back or return my money or change it... a criminal charge is heavier than shipping charges.... especially if they grade it 4BB which sometimes is not correct... mileage is just one of a few things they can't tamper... I had one returned by the way... (tampered mileage).. they arranged everything for bringing the car back, then money transferred back to me...


where do you live? I live in Canada, and I can't even begin to imagine how much it would cost to pursue someone criminally in Japan, from all the way over here....

[sneekens]

where do you live? I live in Canada, and I can't even begin to imagine how much it would cost to pursue someone criminally in Japan, from all the way over here....

To begin with, I guess buying near your area is a better option then.. :)

e34 3.6 M5 (grade: 3.5 BC) 45,000 kms... Price - $22,800.00 with shipping, taxes and registration..
*A highest..

The C is for the interior... Driver side inner door panel dried up to the point it shrank...
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g118/refinish_line/BMWCCP/DSC_1248-1.jpg

Worth it?

[Lordsneldon]

My Honda CRV is a jap import, its a 1996 and i got it with only 33,600 lies on it 4 years ago!!! immaculate body and interior..............now its on 88k and ive just had to do teh headgasket (by the way thanks for the help on that issue!!!) and i would believe the mileage to be honest on my car because the bores, and everything looked to be in very very good condition.

[repenttokyo]

To begin with, I guess buying near your area is a better option then.. :)

e34 3.6 M5 (grade: 3.5 BC) 45,000 kms... Price - $22,800.00 with shipping, taxes and registration..
*A highest..

The C is for the interior... Driver side inner door panel dried up to the point it shrank...

Worth it?

no, not compared to our prices here. That car could be had for probably less than 15k. But there are still a lot of good deals for Canadians in Japan.

[repenttokyo]

My Honda CRV is a jap import, its a 1996 and i got it with only 33,600 lies on it 4 years ago!!! immaculate body and interior..............now its on 88k and ive just had to do teh headgasket (by the way thanks for the help on that issue!!!) and i would believe the mileage to be honest on my car because the bores, and everything looked to be in very very good condition.

a friend of mine has a CRV with 500 000 km on it, and it looks brand new.

[shogun]

more than 22.000 $. You must be joking. Here in Japan they are much cheaper, here a 1992 E34 M5
http://page9.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/k56108169

10.000 US $ wanted and start price, and I assume it will not be sold for that price
here the google translation
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fpage9.auctions.yahoo.co.j p%2Fjp%2Fauction%2Fk56108169&hl=en&ie=UTF8&sl=ja&tl=en

12/1995 525i for 1.500 $ ? no problem
http://page5.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/e80547457
use google translate for that again

520i from 3/1995 with 43.000 km ?
Starting from 200 $
http://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/111477265

Here are all BMW, use google translate
http://search1.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/search?p=bmw+e34&auccat=2084007646&f=0x2&alocale=0jp&mode=1

E31 850i with only 65.000 km for less than 8.000 $? No problem
http://japan-used-car-auction.com/2007/11/bmw_850i.html

http://japan-used-car-auction.com/

[sneekens]

more than 22.000 $. You must be joking. Here in Japan they are much cheaper, here a 1992 E34 M5
http://page9.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/k56108169

10.000 US $ wanted and start price, and I assume it will not be sold for that price
here the google translation
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fpage9.auctions.yahoo.co.j p%2Fjp%2Fauction%2Fk56108169&hl=en&ie=UTF8&sl=ja&tl=en

12/1995 525i for 1.500 $ ? no problem
http://page5.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/e80547457
use google translate for that again

520i from 3/1995 with 43.000 km ?
Starting from 200 $
http://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/111477265

Here are all BMW, use google translate
http://search1.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/search?p=bmw+e34&auccat=2084007646&f=0x2&alocale=0jp&mode=1

E31 850i with only 65.000 km for less than 8.000 $? No problem
http://japan-used-car-auction.com/2007/11/bmw_850i.html

http://japan-used-car-auction.com/


Your M5 is at 120kms already. It doesn't even show the complete and honest status (grade) of the car.... More than $22,000... yeah its cheaper to get cars there, that is why I get them there! but is it cheap to have it shipped? Is it cheap to pay taxes?? Is it cheap to have it registered?? Hmmm... It doesn't sound cheap anymore does it...:)

[shogun]

For me no problem, I live in Japan :)

Shipping cost and handling charges are in this thread I posted last year
http://www.bimmernut.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35325&highlight=export+japan




that is a local auction, not for export business, same like Ebay in other countries. If I would be interested in the car, I would drive there and inspect it first,
For export you can ask one of the companies in the above link to check the car.

[sneekens]

For me no problem, I live in Japan :)

Shipping cost and handling charges are in this thread I posted last year
http://www.bimmernut.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35325&highlight=export+japan



that is a local auction, not for export business, same like Ebay in other countries. If I would be interested in the car, I would drive there and inspect it first,
For export you can ask one of the companies in the above link to check the car.

we have a "spotter" which he does everything for us there.. oh man! your the guy I should talk to when it comes to auctioning cars there.... I'll be sending you a PM:D

[shogun]

No, sorry, I do not want to be involved in such business, contact one of the companies in above link, I am not a car dealer and that takes too much time.