535ia M30 engine swap

[Dash01]

Any way to swap m30 engines in an E34 without removing the tranny?

In other words, there are ~11 bolts holding the tranny to the engine, so is it reasonably efficient to removing the enigine while leaving the tranny in the car?

This, unfortunately, would be done in the driveway in current weather, for lack of facilities except for a hoist.

Any sage advice much appreciated.

[Ken35i]

I have a 535iA that was converted to a manual. And I'm actually in the process of removing the engine (don't ask).
From what I'm doing now; you pretty much have it right. Just unbolt the engine from the tranny and pull forward and up (to seperate the spline). Also removing the obvious, like tranny fluid cooling hoses and electronic connections.

I've done a few manual gear box removals, on other cars, from undernieth the car. Isn't that much to it, in terms of how its attached. But haven't done a engine removal...yet.

[Dave M]

Absolutely right. Usually folks are wondering if they can remove the engine and tranny together, which is more difficult. You may have 2 or 3 different 'external' torx bit sizes on the bell housing, so make sure you're prepared. A good supply of socket extensions is also manditory :D

Good luck out in the elements.

Dave M

[Dash01]

Thanks for the input so far. Again, this is a '90 535ia (M30) engine with automatic transmission, so as always the devil is in the details.

Seemingly, disconnection of wiring harness, hoses, auto. tranny cooler hoses, unbolting of exhaust pipes, unbolting and suspension of power steering pump, removal of radiator and hood, unbolting of engine from tranny and motor mounts, then moving the engine forward to clear the output shaft splines, should work.

This presumes there is enough space between the rear of the engine and the firewall to get a wrench on at least several upper bolts that hold engine to tranny, the lower bolts being accessible from under the car. Is there in fact enough space to wrench those upper bolts?

Do I need to drain the tranny, to prevent fluid from pouring out when the tranny is unbolted from the engine?

Once removed by this method, how hard is it to re-install the engine while mating it with the tranny and splines, etc.? I don't want to take it out, only to find that putting it back in by reverse order was not practicable.

So, anybody who has actually done this on an E34 535ia with automatic transmission, please chime in with further advice.

[Ross]

You'll probably end up underneath the car anyway doing a "long distance dedication" with a few feet worth of extensions and swivels to get at all the bolts.
You shouldn't loose any fluid provide the torque converter stays engaged in the pump. Make sure it's fully in when reinstalling. There should be a bit of room between the conv. and the flywheel when the converter is in all the way. If the converter isn't in all the way and you force it while bolting things up it causes lot's of expensive damage to the pump in the transmission. I learned this the hard way a long time ago.
A coupe of bolts the same size as the bell housing bolts with their heads cut off and ground to a taper installed loosely can be used to get everything in line. Make sure they are long enough so you can remove them for the permanent bolts. I've always meant to cut a slot in the end of ones I use in case I can't grip them tight enough with my fingers.
As a veteran of working in primative conditions I feel for you.

[Dash01]

You'll probably end up underneath the car anyway doing a "long distance dedication" with a few feet worth of extensions and swivels to get at all the bolts.
You shouldn't loose any fluid provide the torque converter stays engaged in the pump. Make sure it's fully in when reinstalling. There should be a bit of room between the conv. and the flywheel when the converter is in all the way. If the converter isn't in all the way and you force it while bolting things up it causes lot's of expensive damage to the pump in the transmission. I learned this the hard way a long time ago.
A coupe of bolts the same size as the bell housing bolts with their heads cut off and ground to a taper installed loosely can be used to get everything in line. Make sure they are long enough so you can remove them for the permanent bolts. I've always meant to cut a slot in the end of ones I use in case I can't grip them tight enough with my fingers.
As a veteran of working in primative conditions I feel for you.

Well, I figure that with a U-joint and socket extensions several feet long, I should be able to remove those lower tranny bolts from under the car with less work than dropping the exhaust system and tranny. Shouldn't have to jack the car up as much either. At least that's how it went with my old Datsun 280Z, also a straight 6. I've never messed with an automatic tranny, let alone a BMW 535ia E34. So, I'm anxious to avoid the mistake of thinking what worked on a Datsun 280Z with manual tranny will also work with a BMW 535ia.

I like your idea of using old bolts with head removed, for guide pins. I've also used wood dowel rod for such purposes. Will probably orient the whole works at TDC so the splines will be aligned on re-assembly.

Keep that advice coming!

[Dave M]

As I believe Ross has eluded to, you will likely be removing the upper tranny bolts from under the car with your super extendos and possibly a swivel. When possible, I had a helper guide the torx bit onto the bolt from the top while I was under the car.

With regard to your statement:


I should be able to remove those lower tranny bolts from under the car with less work than dropping the exhaust system and tranny.

I'm not sure whether you intend to leave the entire exhaust intact and remove the manifold from the head, but that might be a PITA. I've always disconnected the manifold from the remainder of the exhaust when pulling the engine.

Dave M

[Jeff N.]

Bart, what's busted dude?

Here's a couple points to consider based on the couple times I've done this:

- I haven't pulled a motor with an auto so just factor this in but have done a manual several times...soo...apply as helpful.
- For your tranny bolts, get them from under the car. You can get more space by removing any aft tranny mounts and setting the back of the tranny on the cross support. This will give you both space and angle.
- A good trick from Martin to help with the tranny torx bolts - put a little valve lapping compound in the torx socket. Really helps with the grip on the bolt. And yes, get a batch of long extensions and flex drives.
- Get a tipper for your engine hoist if you don't already have one. You'll need it to angle the motor in/out etc.
- Watch your injector harness especially in the cold. It will need to be pushed back out of the way. It's a PITA.
- I found the simplest plan was to pull the motor and install the motor with as many accessories on it as possible. You should be able to leave on the manifolds, fuel rails, filter canisters, etc. Swapping this stuff while the engine in on a stand or hoist is much easier than doing it bent over in the bay.
- Expect you'll need to drop you exhaust system. Might be easier to drop the whole thing vs. disconnecting at the cat back connection. While you won't need it out to pull the motor, I think you'll certainly need it out when you install.
- To get a little more room at the front of the engine prior to pulling / installing, remove the water pump.
- All those little plastic electric connectors will be brittle. Take care with them. A heat gun may be a good idea to help warm things up a bit so you don't snap them all.
- Still have your factory sound installation pad? Get a boat load of new clips as you'll bust a bunch removing it.

If I can think of any more tips, I'll post them.

Cheers!

Jeff

[Dash01]

Bart, what's busted dude?

Here's a couple points to consider based on the couple times I've done this:

- I haven't pulled a motor with an auto so just factor this in but have done a manual several times...soo...apply as helpful.
- For your tranny bolts, get them from under the car. You can get more space by removing any aft tranny mounts and setting the back of the tranny on the cross support. This will give you both space and angle.
- A good trick from Martin to help with the tranny torx bolts - put a little valve lapping compound in the torx socket. Really helps with the grip on the bolt. And yes, get a batch of long extensions and flex drives.
- Get a tipper for your engine hoist if you don't already have one. You'll need it to angle the motor in/out etc.
- Watch your injector harness especially in the cold. It will need to be pushed back out of the way. It's a PITA.
- I found the simplest plan was to pull the motor and install the motor with as many accessories on it as possible. You should be able to leave on the manifolds, fuel rails, filter canisters, etc. Swapping this stuff while the engine in on a stand or hoist is much easier than doing it bent over in the bay.
- Expect you'll need to drop you exhaust system. Might be easier to drop the whole thing vs. disconnecting at the cat back connection. While you won't need it out to pull the motor, I think you'll certainly need it out when you install.
- To get a little more room at the front of the engine prior to pulling / installing, remove the water pump.
- All those little plastic electric connectors will be brittle. Take care with them. A heat gun may be a good idea to help warm things up a bit so you don't snap them all.
- Still have your factory sound installation pad? Get a boat load of new clips as you'll bust a bunch removing it.

If I can think of any more tips, I'll post them.

Cheers!

Jeff


Thanks mucho, Jeff.

What's busted is the engine block, as coolant gets into the oil. Head has been rebuilt, resurfaced, and checked by two separate experts, and it's perfect. Replaced headgaskets a couple of times, and that is not the problem. Both were inspected by me and several experts, independently.

In addition, low oil pressure indications, plus noise in engine. I suspect a hairline crack in the water jacket, and maybe bearing issues due to water contamination. In any event, this engine has ~270K+ miles and has not seen a new oil pump since the factory. I found an engine from a 735i with ~100K fewer miles, for $250 including manifolds, injectors/rail, wiring harness, and brain. So, gonna swap blocks with my rebuilt (as-new) head and get this puppy back on the road, so my daughter can use it at college.

I figure to remove the engine with wiring harness, fuel system, manifolds, etc. all bolted on, just undo the motor mounts and tranny bolts, steering pump, hoses, exhaust pipes, and several connectors. Bentley says to remove the tranny, undo the bolts, so there must be a way from under the car to disconnect the engine from tranny. Then, under hoist, nudge it forward to clear the torque converter, and up and out. I may even leave the radiator in, just protect it with a sheet of plywood so it does not get gouged.

What size Torx sockets?

[Jeff N.]

Hmm. Sounds dead. 250 is the right price. you plan to toss a new pan gasket and rear main in right? order up the beck arnley gasket from napa, much better than the bmw cork thingy.

I can't remember what size torx sockets. You need the female version...just get a set for cheap at lowes or something. I don't have any as we've always used martin's set.

I think you're going to need to pull the radiator to get it out. Dumb simple reallly, just undo the three hoses, unplug the high speed fan sensor and unclip it. order new clips unless you're real good with them and they are new as they almost always implode.

too bad you're not around here -we could get martin to do it. :D

Jeff

[Dash01]

Hmm. Sounds dead. 250 is the right price. you plan to toss a new pan gasket and rear main in right? order up the beck arnley gasket from napa, much better than the bmw cork thingy.

I can't remember what size torx sockets. You need the female version...just get a set for cheap at lowes or something. I don't have any as we've always used martin's set.

I think you're going to need to pull the radiator to get it out. Dumb simple reallly, just undo the three hoses, unplug the high speed fan sensor and unclip it. order new clips unless you're real good with them and they are new as they almost always implode.

too bad you're not around here -we could get martin to do it. :D

Jeff

Actually, I am around here, about 1.5 hours north of B'vue. So, if Martin or anybody else has any suggestions on the magic moves to make this easier while working in the driveway, bring them on.

I figure to slacken the tranny mounts so as to lower it a bit, for better access to the bell housing bolts via a ~4' long string of socket wrench extensions.

I'm told the torque converter has 3 bolts, which are accessible via a window on the passenger side at the rear of the engine. Any thoughts on doing this so as to be able to get it back together later?

How far forward does the engine need to go forward to clear the block from the tranny/torque converter?

[Jeff N.]

I meant around here here. :) Don't know if I can sneak a trip up to Anacortes (right?) in the next few days. Be fun to see the project and check our your 951.

Can't answer the torque converter question; never worked on a slushbox.