Getting Information on M50TU A/T to S52/6SPD Twin or Single Turbo

[bad_manners_god]

Alright guys, I've almost finished the body/interior/suspension/brakes. It's time to start planning the future:

What I had in mind was to swap my current engine (M50TU) and tranny with a S52 OBD1 and 6 SPD tranny and then go to turbo it at the minimum, if not twin turbo it because of the lag single turbo's usually tend to cause.

Target HP Goal: 400-600

I'm not trying to build an abesoulte monster, just enough to get the 525i Touring up to the current M5 Touring Specs in terms of performance.

A couple of my basic questions must be:

1.) Can the S52/ Stock Internals support the kind of power from my HP Goal?

2.)Is it better to get a S52 and tranny package together or mate the S52 with a different tranny?

3.) I'm assuming I'm going to need a custom drive shaft to support the power as well as the new distance?

4.) When looking for the S52, what components should come with it that can't be transfered over from my current motor?

Thanks for reading.

[BigKriss]

why would a turbo blow up on long road trips?

how are you going to fit a by pass valve from the exhaust manifold to the turbo - its impossible -, and where would the exhaust gasses go then?

I think this idea is stupid. Your tubo won't be "burned" out. WHat cars have you seen this done on before that your basing your ideas on?

[bad_manners_god]

why would a turbo blow up on long road trips?

how are you going to fit a by pass valve from the exhaust manifold to the turbo - its impossible -, and where would the exhaust gasses go then?

I think this idea is stupid. Your tubo won't be "burned" out. WHat cars have you seen this done on before that your basing your ideas on?

This is my first time turboing any car. I was discussing this with my friend who has a turbo on his neon, the point is, once I'm already at higher speeds, I wont need the turbo causing unneccesary wear and a shorter life span on the turbo.

Dont the exhaust gases go out, thru umm, the exhaust pipes?

[attack eagle]

your idea is overly complex... unless under load you won't be in boost and it will just be freewheeling but making no boost.. you can run at 6500 rpm and make no boost.

all that is unneeded.

as far as swapping the touring to s52 and manual. shrike did it on bf.c, and is supercharging it at the moment.

don't forget you need diff to match the new manual tranny's diff, and the proper driveshaft.

Jon k is running a lot of power thru a stock diff, driveshaft, and zf310.

btw exhaust gasses pas thru the turbo first. the exhaust piping is connected to IT. all air passes thru it as well.

I've run 4k for 20 hours straight on the freeway (except fuel stops) in a turbo and it is less hot than driving hard for 5 minutes.

[BigKriss]

yes they do if the turbo is operating, however is the valve is open and the exhaust gases won't go into the turbo, they will be going into the engine compartment.


This is my first time turboing any car. I was discussing this with my friend who has a turbo on his neon, the point is, once I'm already at higher speeds, I wont need the turbo causing unneccesary wear and a shorter life span on the turbo.

Dont the exhaust gases go out, thru umm, the exhaust pipes?

[attack eagle]

howitworks turbocharging

[bad_manners_god]

yes they do if the turbo is operating, however is the valve is open and the exhaust gases won't go into the turbo, they will be going into the engine compartment.

Ok, I see what you mean, Jon K's massive Manifold and Turbo came to mind, lol.

Attack eagle: Does the "free-wheeling" of the turbo put any wear on the turbo? I've read the how it works, but It ndidnt really mentioning anything to the nature of wear on the turbo which is why i thought up this whole complex idea....I must say, its a pretty sexy diagram.

[colo525i]

As i own some turbocharged bikes, I've gotta chime in on this one. :p

The diagram you show would be feeding exhaust gases into the intake en masse, the engine would simply stall. Remember the turbo has 2 sides to it the compressor and the exhaust turbine. The compressor is only intake side, the exhaust is obviously just exhaust. If you're not running boost (i.e not under load on a cruise at say 80mph/130kph) the turbo isn't spinning all that much faster than at idle. It only gets to high speed when you load the engine and make boost. Having put thousands of miles on my bikes running 5-6k rpm at highway speed, I can say it won't nuke the turbo. Lack of oil supply or shutting the engine down with the turbine still spinning will.

[Barney Paull-Edwards]

"Free wheeling" turbo? As long as it gets clean oil it`ll last. I have had a spare turbo for six years due to being a cynic but after 13 years of abuse its still on the original,fitted a full flow filter on return and good lines to and from turbo but not really needed, just remember to let it cool down and enjoy.Even temporary twin/535 adapted set up I used for a while was ok but I used a separate oil feed system,BMW over engineer most things which is why we are still driving E34`s, not many rice rockets at that age???

[bad_manners_god]

Ok, so that idea is out the window and my mind at ease, now it's time to move on with the swap

[shrike071]

Ok, so that idea is out the window and my mind at ease, now it's time to move on with the swap
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=729157

Virtually a step-by-step guide, sans my supercharger install. If you're doing that too - just go by the instructions that came with the kit. It's quite easy. FWIW - the 6-speed isn't worth the dollars in my opinion. The transmission is $1500-$2500 alone, used.

/wave Attack Eagle. You made a run for it too? :)

[repenttokyo]

ABESOULT BEAUTIFUL WRITEUP...

I'm condensing all the posts and pics together into steps. Much appreciated.

Couple questions for everyone:

1.) I have a garage next door to mine with a Z4 2004 3.0L as a donor car, no body, just engine, tranny and diff. Which engine does this Z4 have/Transmission?

2.)I also have a 330CI Engine, what engine code is this one? Thanks.

You know, a simple web search would turn up information on both of those engines.

[bad_manners_god]

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=729157

Virtually a step-by-step guide, sans my supercharger install. If you're doing that too - just go by the instructions that came with the kit. It's quite easy. FWIW - the 6-speed isn't worth the dollars in my opinion. The transmission is $1500-$2500 alone, used.

/wave Attack Eagle. You made a run for it too? :)

ABESOULT BEAUTIFUL WRITEUP...

I'm condensing all the posts and pics together into steps. Much appreciated.

Couple questions for everyone:

1.) I have a garage next door to mine with a Z4 2004 3.0L as a donor car, no body, just engine, tranny and diff. Which engine does this Z4 have/Transmission?

2.)I also have a 330CI Engine, what engine code is this one? Thanks.

[shrike071]

ABESOULT BEAUTIFUL WRITEUP...

1.) I have a garage next door to mine with a Z4 2004 3.0L as a donor car, no body, just engine, tranny and diff. Which engine does this Z4 have/Transmission?

2.)I also have a 330CI Engine, what engine code is this one? Thanks.

Thanks for the compliment! The engine in the Z4 is the M54. The trans? I don't know.... The 330Ci engine is also the M54.

[bad_manners_god]

Thanks for the compliment! The engine in the Z4 is the M54. The trans? I don't know.... The 330Ci engine is also the M54.

So neither of them are worthy for the swap, hmm, S52 it will be then. What about S54, would it be easier/harder? more expensive?

Any good sites to find S52 engine's?

[Dave M]

Any good sites to find S52 engine's?

heres a start (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-M-Roadster-S52-M3-3-2L-complete-engine-VIDEO_W0QQitemZ320213208682QQcmdZViewItem?hash=ite m320213208682)

[repenttokyo]

I'm not sure I'm going to do the swap 100% yet, after I posted on DTMPower, "itsabimmerthing" is claiming that there are stock M50's making 500+ hp on stock internals.

Tranny is 100% but if I'm doing the engine swap I want something that is going to mate nicely to the motor while not restricting my top speed.

anything is going to make 500 hp if you throw enough money at it. that doesn't make it the best solution.

as for restricting your top speed: it's not going to be limited by gearing. it will, however, be restricted by any of the roads in our area.

[attack eagle]

/wave Attack Eagle. You made a run for it too? :)
I've been here for a LONG time now. joined about a week or two after I got the touring.

bad. My suggestion would be that first you should swap the tranny, driveshaft and diff... once that is done and everything is working, then the engine. once that is running fine, then turbo it.

[bad_manners_god]

I've been here for a LONG time now. joined about a week or two after I got the touring.

bad. My suggestion would be that first you should swap the tranny, driveshaft and diff... once that is done and everything is working, then the engine. once that is running fine, then turbo it.

I'm not sure I'm going to do the swap 100% yet, after I posted on DTMPower, "itsabimmerthing" is claiming that there are stock M50's making 500+ hp on stock internals.

Tranny is 100% but if I'm doing the engine swap I want something that is going to mate nicely to the motor while not restricting my top speed.

[bad_manners_god]

anything is going to make 500 hp if you throw enough money at it. that doesn't make it the best solution.

as for restricting your top speed: it's not going to be limited by gearing. it will, however, be restricted by any of the roads in our area.

Lol, during winter, defiently, during summer, well, you should come for a ride.

[repenttokyo]

Lol, during winter, defiently, during summer, well, you should come for a ride.


don't take this the wrong way, but i'm not getting into a car with someone who thinks that the roads around montreal are suitable for 'top speed tests'. We have some of the worst roads in north america.

[repenttokyo]

you know, us montreal guys should get together and go drifting next snowfall - tonight would have been perfect.

[bad_manners_god]

you know, us montreal guys should get together and go drifting next snowfall - tonight would have been perfect.

Lol, montreal roads are crap i'll admit, that why you should come down to laval. are roads arent as bad but the highways are clean.

[mancini_mark]

I'm actually considering the S52/OBD1 swap this summer. I'm in the GTA. Turbo is tempting. Maybe next year.

I don't drop by here as often as I used to, but I will keep everyone posted on my progress.

Mark

[repenttokyo]

Lol, montreal roads are crap i'll admit, that why you should come down to laval. are roads arent as bad but the highways are clean.


laval roads are just as shitty as montreal roads. 90 perecnt of all roads in quebec are total ass.

[repenttokyo]

Thats cause we get winter pretty bad here and snow removal put salt and break up our roads even more.

naw man, they have winter just as bad as ours in ontario, upstate new york, new hampshire and vermont, and their roads are substantially nicer than ours. It has to do with the corruption in our construction industry and the consistent choice to use substandard materials and procedures when building infrastructure. Just look at the bridge that collapsed a while back, or indeed, most of the overpasses in our province.

[bad_manners_god]

laval roads are just as shitty as montreal roads. 90 perecnt of all roads in quebec are total ass.

Thats cause we get winter pretty bad here and snow removal put salt and break up our roads even more.

[bad_manners_god]

naw man, they have winter just as bad as ours in ontario, upstate new york, new hampshire and vermont, and their roads are substantially nicer than ours. It has to do with the corruption in our construction industry and the consistent choice to use substandard materials and procedures when building infrastructure. Just look at the bridge that collapsed a while back, or indeed, most of the overpasses in our province.

100% True, I must admit.