Time to change out all of the fuel lines...

[e34.535i.sport]

Hey guys, first of all apologies if this is a repetitive problem- I have searched long and hard but a few questions remain unanswered...

Here's the situation- I leave work yesterday to find a puddle of petrol under the car. Not good. I've had problems in the past with a corroded fuel line and had to do a temporoary fix due to lack of funds/time at that point. This time its sprung in a new place, right at the back of the tank where a rubber hose meets the metal line. If i'm honest I'm not sure the rubber hose that is there should be or if its been bodged before?! Anyway I get it home reverse it onto some ramps (scratched the underside of the bumper in the process because its so low) and Syphon pretty much all of the petrol out of it and store it (I put £50 worth in the night before... Typical).

The good news is I'm off work for two weeks now and have got some cash to throw at it so I'm planning to remove the pump etc, disconnect hoses/pipes, drop the tank (PLASTIC), and get a good look at exactly what pipes I need to replace. Questions:

1). Do I definitely need to depressurize the system? If so why?

2). Will I have to disconnect the battery or will I get away without doing it? I didn't for fuel filter/water pump etc.

3). There are two main hard lines what is the better option - getting the steel ones from the dealer or getting some copper ones purpose made? I need to take into account durbility/cost/ease of fitment etc etc. If i go with copper ones I need the dimensions too (i.e how long each section is before bends etc), i've seen them somewhere on this forum before but just can't find them.

4). The two main hard lines (and breathers etc) are horribly corroded at the back end, but from the centre of the car forward they seem fine. Is it best to cut and join there or re-do the whole thing? I only ask because getting the lines in through to the engine bay seems like it could be tricky.

5). Should I replace the fuel pump while I'm there? I don't know its history but don't currently have any problems with it and not sure on the price yet. Looking into it.

If anyone has done this before or can offer any advice or tricks of the trade I'd seriously appreciate it. I need to get this job done I've been procrastinating for long enough... I'm taking the car on a 500 mile trip in August so its gotta be tip-top.

Many thanks in advance.

[e34.535i.sport]

Hey guys thanks for your input, always useful to get a few opinions rather than go with my jusgement (which is usually not too good!).

Been underneath all morning, removed the heat shield #12 and wheel dust guard thing. Looks like there are two hoses that come off the expansion tank that connect to two hard lines. I need these two hard lines, the others seem to be ok. I think on realoem diagram i'm looking at #2 and #3. The hard lines i'm talking about seem to go into the front of the tank and the back of the tank but i can't see until i drop the tank...

Can anyone shed anymore light on this by any chance as i'm not certain its #2 and 3 i'm after?! Here's the diagram...

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=HD12&mospid=47382&btnr=16_0041&hg=16&fg=05

[whiskychaser]

1). Do I definitely need to depressurize the system? If so why?
Its under 51 psi pressure but a decent rag will soak up what comes out
2). Will I have to disconnect the battery or will I get away without doing it? I didn't for fuel filter/water pump etc.
I wouldnt but if you get a spark with fuel about dont be underneath at the time
3). There are two main hard lines what is the better option - getting the steel ones from the dealer or getting some copper ones purpose made? I need to take into account durbility/cost/ease of fitment etc etc. If i go with copper ones I need the dimensions too (i.e how long each section is before bends etc), i've seen them somewhere on this forum before but just can't find them.
Your local motor shop should be able to make lines up for you. That includes the connections. You just take in the old ones for length/fittings so they can match them
4). The two main hard lines (and breathers etc) are horribly corroded at the back end, but from the centre of the car forward they seem fine. Is it best to cut and join there or re-do the whole thing? I only ask because getting the lines in through to the engine bay seems like it could be tricky.
You need a pipe flaring tool if you cut them. If you do use one, dont forget to put the nut on the pipe first:D
5). Should I replace the fuel pump while I'm there? I don't know its history but don't currently have any problems with it and not sure on the price yet. Looking into it.
You should have ca. 51 psi pressure on the pump. That goes down to about 44 with the engine running. If you havent got a gauge you can borrow mine:)
If anyone has done this before or can offer any advice or tricks of the trade I'd seriously appreciate it.
Ask for price at a garage. Laying those lines front to back is a pain. I had my brake lines done. It would have cost £60 for the parts. Garage charged £90 including fitting. Gladly paid the £30 to save me a crappy job:)

[Rus]

Some answers:
1) You do need to depressurize. The system operates at about 43 psi and you will get a big gasoline shower if you pull off a pressurized line (like one of the main ones going up front) without letting down the pressure. I usually just hook a vacuum pump up to the pressure regulator and open it manually to dump the fuel.
2) I usually disconnect the battery whenever I'm working with the fuel system because of fumes and possible spills. Last thing you need is a spark.
3) No input.
4) Joining hard lines creates extra areas where you can have a leak. Personally, I think I'd replace the entire line just to avoid the complication later.
5) The pump is fairly expensive (~$200) Replacing it is pretty easy, but if your pump works, there's probably no reason to do it. If you want an exact diagnosis, hook up a fuel pressure gauge before the injector rail and see what the pressure is there. Should be 43 psi while running.

Hope this helps.

[e34.535i.sport]

Thanks guys, appreciate the input there.

I've been investigating thoroughly and I need the two pipes that go into the fuel tank (one front and one at the back). They connect to the bottom of the expansion tank. Fortunately it seems the ones to the front will be ok so I'm not going to bother with them... for now.

I don't know if anyone can help me out here, but i've found a bit of a problem. I have the pipes etc i need on order from the dealer and they should be in wednesday. I thought i'd get a head start and remove the fuel pump and sender unit this morning so I was ready to drop the tank on wednesday when I have the parts. However, when I took the egg shaped panel off in the boot and exposed the electrical connector and the in and out hoses... I couldn't find any nuts to undo? Im under the impression there should be six or eight nuts to undo in order to pull out the sender unit after researching this in detail? I've read many threads on this and all pictures look the same... Mine looks different - typical?! Instead of bolts going all the way around I have a big circular plastic 'lid' type item going around the connector and hoses. Anybody else found this before? I attempted to twist it off (as this looked like the only way to remove it) but I didn't want to go primevil on it incase I broke it off.

I'm just charging my phone so I can take a picture or two and post them.

Ideas?

[E34-520iSE]

No problem - your tank sender/pump unit is the same as mine - you just unscrew the large black plastic retaining ring and the sender comes out, and the pump is clipped into the bottom of the tank. Don't just pull the pump out - you have to be careful with those plastic lugs. I replaced my fuel lines 5 years ago with the correct correctly shaped pipes from the dealer, and had no real problems with their install, though I had to bend the pipes a few extra times to get them to fit. All in all though it was an easy enough job, but make sure the system is depressurised first lol!!

Best of luck,

Shaun M

[e34.535i.sport]

Hey thanks Shaun, I find it strange that in all the literature I've read its never been mentioned?!

Here's the pic anyway:

[img=http://img37.picoodle.com/img/img37/4/3/17/f_Image037m_33c37f7.jpg] (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/3/17/f_Image037m_33c37f7.jpg&srv=img37)

Shaun, did you need to take off the in and out pipes before pulling out the sender unit? I think i'll get it on the ramps, pull the fuse and depressurise the system and then get to work removing the pipes etc.

I don't suppose you know how i disconnect the tank from the filler neck do you, or should i just pull?!

Thanks!

[Ferret]

I've depressurised the system, disconnected everything connected to the fuel tank and undone the allen-key bolt that holds the LH support strap on... THe RH one however won't come undone...

I used the correct 6mm allen key initially but the bolt head is quite badly rusted and it just spun when i tryed to turn it. I got a star socket in it and that ended up slipping too (this got the other side out though).

I resorted to getting hold of the head with molegrips and trying to turn it with those but i didn't get far at all with that (nowhere in otherwords).

I see three options now:

1. Put it all back together, book it in a shop and get the bolt drilled, bring it home and continue the fuel line job.

2. Try and drill it out myself (no idea what i'm doing).

3. Continue trying to turn it with the molegrips...

Anybody been in a similar situation? With the bolt being quite accessible i'm tempted to try and get it out myself with my standard drill... but i wouldn't want to wreck the thread on the chassis where it bolts onto.

I can't believe one bolt is stopping me doing this job, its really REALLY annoying.


Drill it is probably your best option, but take your time and be careful, you're working in a dangerous area! If you're not confident, you might as well take the whole job to a trusted garage, as you're gonna get charged an hours labour - you might as well get them to fit the new pipes while they're at it!

[e34.535i.sport]

I've depressurised the system, disconnected everything connected to the fuel tank and undone the allen-key bolt that holds the LH support strap on... THe RH one however won't come undone...

I used the correct 6mm allen key initially but the bolt head is quite badly rusted and it just spun when i tryed to turn it. I got a star socket in it and that ended up slipping too (this got the other side out though).

I resorted to getting hold of the head with molegrips and trying to turn it with those but i didn't get far at all with that (nowhere in otherwords).

I see three options now:

1. Put it all back together, book it in a shop and get the bolt drilled, bring it home and continue the fuel line job.

2. Try and drill it out myself (no idea what i'm doing).

3. Continue trying to turn it with the molegrips...

Anybody been in a similar situation? With the bolt being quite accessible i'm tempted to try and get it out myself with my standard drill... but i wouldn't want to wreck the thread on the chassis where it bolts onto.

I can't believe one bolt is stopping me doing this job, its really REALLY annoying.

[Barney Paull-Edwards]

Ha ha ha... This is the first and only car i've worked on really but been fairly lucky in the jobs i've done! The captain and I work on each others cars he has a 1992 e36 320i and we recently done a bit of work on a 1999 VW golf (only brake work). The front end of my car is in pretty good nick but the back end is rusted up a fair bit... Fine from outside but when you get underneath its a different story.

Yes standard strap and bolt with the 'nut' welded to the car. I managed to hammer a 1/4" allen key into the bolt head today and when I turned it I just snapped the allen key... Marvelous. I'm planning on drilling it tomorrow because I've had enough of the little f*cker. Went to a shop today and priced up them drilling it... between £30 and £60 so I'm gonna have a bash myself first as I hate paying labour for something I can do (no offence to our mechanic friends). Never done it before but I have a plan...

I'm going to drill through the bolt and get rid of it, then put a new nut and bolt through it... There should be room to get a nut on top i reckon.

I cant wait to get this bolt out, I'm going to dance on it's grave I really am.
There is room for a nut and bolt job! If all else fails cut the strap with an angle-grinder, remove the tank, change the pipes, remove the strap and either weld it together or replace it and carry on!

[whiskychaser]

I've depressurised the system, disconnected everything connected to the fuel tank and undone the allen-key bolt that holds the LH support strap on... THe RH one however won't come undone...

I used the correct 6mm allen key initially but the bolt head is quite badly rusted and it just spun when i tryed to turn it. I got a star socket in it and that ended up slipping too (this got the other side out though).

I resorted to getting hold of the head with molegrips and trying to turn it with those but i didn't get far at all with that (nowhere in otherwords).

I see three options now:

1. Put it all back together, book it in a shop and get the bolt drilled, bring it home and continue the fuel line job.

2. Try and drill it out myself (no idea what i'm doing).

3. Continue trying to turn it with the molegrips...

Anybody been in a similar situation? With the bolt being quite accessible i'm tempted to try and get it out myself with my standard drill... but i wouldn't want to wreck the thread on the chassis where it bolts onto.

I can't believe one bolt is stopping me doing this job, its really REALLY annoying.
Fck. You must have only worked on new cars or are too young to have worked on old ones. I'm always pleased if I can do a job without shearing a bolt or rounding the head off a nut:) Cant visualise what you are doing but if you drill it off have you a solution to putting it back together? Are we talking old fashioned strap and bolt or something more elegant?

[e34.535i.sport]

Fck. You must have only worked on new cars or are too young to have worked on old ones. I'm always pleased if I can do a job without shearing a bolt or rounding the head off a nut:) Cant visualise what you are doing but if you drill it off have you a solution to putting it back together? Are we talking old fashioned strap and bolt or something more elegant?

Ha ha ha... This is the first and only car i've worked on really but been fairly lucky in the jobs i've done! The captain and I work on each others cars he has a 1992 e36 320i and we recently done a bit of work on a 1999 VW golf (only brake work). The front end of my car is in pretty good nick but the back end is rusted up a fair bit... Fine from outside but when you get underneath its a different story.

Yes standard strap and bolt with the 'nut' welded to the car. I managed to hammer a 1/4" allen key into the bolt head today and when I turned it I just snapped the allen key... Marvelous. I'm planning on drilling it tomorrow because I've had enough of the little f*cker. Went to a shop today and priced up them drilling it... between £30 and £60 so I'm gonna have a bash myself first as I hate paying labour for something I can do (no offence to our mechanic friends). Never done it before but I have a plan...

I'm going to drill through the bolt and get rid of it, then put a new nut and bolt through it... There should be room to get a nut on top i reckon.

I cant wait to get this bolt out, I'm going to dance on it's grave I really am.

[whiskychaser]

I'm going to drill through the bolt and get rid of it, then put a new nut and bolt through it... There should be room to get a nut on top i reckon.

I cant wait to get this bolt out, I'm going to dance on it's grave I really am.
That sounds like a plan. In your line of work you should be able to work this out: Nolli iligitimi carborundum. Yeah I know its not gramatically correct:)

[e34.535i.sport]

That sounds like a plan. In your line of work you should be able to work this out: Nolli iligitimi carborundum. Yeah I know its not gramatically correct:)

Ha ha ha LOL! :D You always manage to make me chuckle somehow... No bolt's gonna wear me down!!!!!!! Tomorrow it's going to wish it was never forged.

[e34.535i.sport]

There is room for a nut and bolt job! If all else fails cut the strap with an angle-grinder, remove the tank, change the pipes, remove the strap and either weld it together or replace it and carry on!
Cheers Barney, I'm gonna try the drill first, i'm dubious over cutting the strap due to the possibility of sparks... Although it's that rusty I could probably cut it with a spoon...

Wish me luck!

[e34.535i.sport]

This is P*SSING ME OFF!!!! Oh it's going to get it now...

I managed to hammer a 12mm socket onto the bolt and turned it a couple of times before the socket slid/fell off... When I hammered it back on I knocked the nut off the chassis on the other side so that is turning with the bolt now... GRRRRR!

I'm going out now to snap off the head hopefully- i'm getting the cold chisel and lump hammer out again... Which always ends up in something getting destroyed.

Report back in a couple of hours.

[e34.535i.sport]

I've retired for the day... Round 2 goes to the bolt.

Status: Bolt still fooked, My Hands and Arms really fooked.

I bought some titanium drill bits this morning, got under with the drill to find the bits could not reach anywhere near the bolt, oh yeah.

Proceeded with the lump hammer amongst other things and now as mentioned earlier the bolt is spinning along with the nut at the back of it. Tried to hammer a socket onto the bolt end and hold the nut at the back with a spanner but its not getting me very far at all its way too awkward. I did manage to get more **** in my eye though so that was a bonus.

Drilling it seems out of the question now with it spinning relatively freely... Which means I'm beyond the point of safe return.

Plan: I'm wanting to get the head off the nut so I'm going to try to get a small hand saw up in there tomorrow and do that. Not going to be easy though... If that doesn't work I'll have to keep at it with the cold chisel and lump hammer.

[whiskychaser]

I've retired for the day... Round 2 goes to the bolt.

Status: Bolt still fooked, My Hands and Arms really fooked.

I bought some titanium drill bits this morning, got under with the drill to find the bits could not reach anywhere near the bolt, oh yeah.

Proceeded with the lump hammer amongst other things and now as mentioned earlier the bolt is spinning along with the nut at the back of it. Tried to hammer a socket onto the bolt end and hold the nut at the back with a spanner but its not getting me very far at all its way too awkward. I did manage to get more **** in my eye though so that was a bonus.

Drilling it seems out of the question now with it spinning relatively freely... Which means I'm beyond the point of safe return.

Plan: I'm wanting to get the head off the nut so I'm going to try to get a small hand saw up in there tomorrow and do that. Not going to be easy though... If that doesn't work I'll have to keep at it with the cold chisel and lump hammer.
Look on the bright side. Snow is only forecast for east side of the country:)

[Jon K]

I wish you luck - I just ran new fuel lines (slightly different than what you're doing..) and I wouldn't want to touch those stock lines if I could avoid it!

[e34.535i.sport]

Look on the bright side. Snow is only forecast for east side of the country:)

I think you may have jinxed us - we ended up working in a mini snow/hail storm today!!! :D

[e34.535i.sport]

VICTORY!!!!!!!!

Drilled the B*stard out today after a couple of hours trying alternative methods... I was under the impression it was X-grade steel and going to be tough to drill - but it went through it like a knife through butter!

I'm still on a high off it, can't wait to resume the job tomorrow and actually get the lines fitted and get back on the road... I've been driving around in my girlfriends Fiesta (pimped out Me-To-You style and powered by fairydust on the back) for long enough!

Ive decided to make a keyring out of the nut as a momento! :) Thanks for the advice and support guys, much appreciated.

One final thing I need to ask: I'm dropping the tank down in the morning (on the jack now) - the haynes says to disconnect the fuel filler neck - I can see it connects with a big piece of rubber but it seems like it will just pull off. Does anyone know if this is the case?! I only ask as I don't want to let it down and break something like a seal or whatever?!

[whiskychaser]

VICTORY!!!!!!!!


Ive decided to make a keyring out of the nut as a momento! :)
One final thing I need to ask: I'm dropping the tank down in the morning (on the jack now) - the haynes says to disconnect the fuel filler neck - I can see it connects with a big piece of rubber but it seems like it will just pull off. Does anyone know if this is the case?! I only ask as I don't want to let it down and break something like a seal or whatever?!
It was only hail stones you big girl. Did a full service on my son's car-not just one nut and bolt:D Cant help with the neck. But the rubber round it can only be there to stop you dropping fuel on the floor or the neck banging against the body

[e34.535i.sport]

I wish you luck - I just ran new fuel lines (slightly different than what you're doing..) and I wouldn't want to touch those stock lines if I could avoid it!

Hey thanks, I think the hard part is over now! The old lines are dust, shouldn't be a problem swapping them out... I hope. I've had a couple of days to scope it out while dealing with that pesky bolt so fingers crossed all goes well! Going out in a minute to get started. JOY!

[E34-520iSE]

Have fun mate! I'm just wondering though - why are you taking the fuel tank out? I never took mine out when I did the fuel pipes - all I did was pull off the send & return pipes from the tank & renewed them, fitted a new fuel filter & bracket, then put the new steel fuel pipes in - honestly it was no big deal, just a bit cramped under there as I'm over 6ft tall lol!

Good luck,

Shaun M

[e34.535i.sport]

Have fun mate! I'm just wondering though - why are you taking the fuel tank out? I never took mine out when I did the fuel pipes - all I did was pull off the send & return pipes from the tank & renewed them, fitted a new fuel filter & bracket, then put the new steel fuel pipes in - honestly it was no big deal, just a bit cramped under there as I'm over 6ft tall lol!

Good luck,

Shaun M

I'm pretty sure we're talking about the same pipes but there's no way on my car you can remove the old lines or attach new ones without dropping the tank! Oh no, we're not talking about the same pipes - you mean the ones that go to the front i think - I replaced the ones that go from the expansion tank to the front and rear of the fuel tank, bitch to get at! All done now though thank god! :D

[e34.535i.sport]

Hey thanks again guys me and the Captai finally got the job done last night... Here's some pic's to try and compare old with new... (The pics aren't great sorry)... The PO had decided to use some garden hose instead of new pipe when it corroded halfway down... Genius! It was the pipe that gave again though further down in the end...

The good:

http://img02.picoodle.com/img/img02/4/3/24/f_Image046m_2656b29.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/3/24/f_Image046m_2656b29.jpg&srv=img02)

The bad:

http://img30.picoodle.com/img/img30/4/3/24/f_Image048m_f7f7200.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/3/24/f_Image048m_f7f7200.jpg&srv=img30)

The downright ugly:

http://img34.picoodle.com/img/img34/4/3/24/f_Image044m_7f1d29c.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/3/24/f_Image044m_7f1d29c.jpg&srv=img34)

I hooked the old pipe up to the garden hose to see the leak I was amazed when I shot out everywhere like that!!

Anyway I'm glad its over. We poured all my old fuel in last night using a filter of course which saved me losing £50's worth!

Took it on a test drive and I got a weird slight hesitation when going fairly slow in second gear and then putting the hammer down a little... Hopefully its nothing and willl be gone today.

UPDATE - Car drove perfect before!!!
Thanks again everybody! :D

[whiskychaser]

Could only get one of the pics to work so must be a problem my side:( They used to make petrol hose that looked a lot like garden hose except the pattern was gold not green. Hopefully you had that on and not somebody made a time bomb! Glad to hear you got it sorted:D

[e34.535i.sport]

Could only get one of the pics to work so must be a problem my side:( They used to make petrol hose that looked a lot like garden hose except the pattern was gold not green. Hopefully you had that on and not somebody made a time bomb! Glad to hear you got it sorted:D

Hey cheers Whiskey - check out the previous post again I figured out how to get the pics on!

[whiskychaser]

Hey cheers Whiskey - check out the previous post again I figured out how to get the pics on!
Er.. its green not gold coloured. That IS garden hose-brittle as hell when cold. Surprised the petrol didnt eat it. You had a bit of a battle doing the lines but if all you did was change that hose it was worth it. Nice one

[e34.535i.sport]

Er.. its green not gold coloured. That IS garden hose-brittle as hell when cold. Surprised the petrol didnt eat it. You had a bit of a battle doing the lines but if all you did was change that hose it was worth it. Nice one

Cheers mate your continued support was duely noted... :) I enjoyed living on the edge there for a while with the garden-hose fuel system... I'm going to miss it.

[whiskychaser]

Cheers mate your continued support was duely noted... :) I enjoyed living on the edge there for a while with the garden-hose fuel system... I'm going to miss it.
Maybe the guy who owned the car before you was a gardener. And the missing relay is to turn the 'sprinkler' system off? IMHO you are better off without the retro fit:D

[e34.535i.sport]

Maybe the guy who owned the car before you was a gardener. And the missing relay is to turn the 'sprinkler' system off? IMHO you are better off without the retro fit:D

:D LOL! Its a shame it was sprinkling petrol everywhere instead of water, could've saved time and got a shower on the way to work!