OT: Bodacious Tata

[repenttokyo]

naw man, it's already been tried - and Daimler didn't want to keep Chrysler.

[repenttokyo]

i don' think looking to France as an economic model is the best idea ;)

[repenttokyo]

when is someone going to fix the ****ing board so it's readable?

[repenttokyo]

x1
I thought your comments about the French economy were in response to my post but now I'm not so sure. Fact is the French/Germans/Belgians/Dutch/Swiss/Italians have a better standard of living than we do. And I'm only listing the ones I know about. Its a simple fact that their disposable income is far greater than ours. So why dont I go and live there? I have. Were you talking to me....?

what about the problem with the concept of "a job for life" which has lead to young people being unable to find any work as employers are not willing to hire them? that is one of the things that troubles me the most about the French economy.

[e34.535i.sport]

I love to poke fun at the British car industry as much as any yank but this has to hurt.


Wo there! We Brits may not make the best cars in the world (thats for the Germans to do ;) ), but we do still have Aston Martin, TVR, Morgan and Noble on the go as far as I am aware... I know these are no match for Chrysler, Chevrolet and Ford however :p !

[Ross]

My condolences to the Brits. Upon hearing the news of Jaguar and Land Rover now being in the hands of tractor and throw away car builder Tata I wanted to barf.
Even though Ford's ownership diluted the brand something good could be said for it's contribution of resources.
Jag seems destined to a slow and humiliating death now. A prestige car from builders of the modern Trabant?
I love to poke fun at the British car industry as much as any yank but this has to hurt.
What's up with you Brit's?
Rolls-Royce in GERMAN hands, Bentleys are now a (V-dub) poseur's car, MG dead(?) and now Jags to be fitted with hookahs.
What is Aston's status?
Watching the U.S. car business crumble under the weight of labor unions I wonder if it will go the same way here.

[whiskychaser]

My condolences to the Brits. Upon hearing the news of Jaguar and Land Rover now being in the hands of tractor and throw away car builder Tata I wanted to barf.

We are all wearing black arm bands:( This is the future of our car industry:
http://jalopnik.com/cars/ad-watch/ad-watch-convert-your-amby-into-a-peugeot-206-238674.php
The French still drive Peugeot/Renault/Citroen. We dont even make the 3 wheel Reliant any more. Their premier just visited us. That man is no fool. I vote we kick Brown out and let him run both shows

[whiskychaser]

when is someone going to fix the ****ing board so it's readable?
x1
I thought your comments about the French economy were in response to my post but now I'm not so sure. Fact is the French/Germans/Belgians/Dutch/Swiss/Italians have a better standard of living than we do. And I'm only listing the ones I know about. Its a simple fact that their disposable income is far greater than ours. So why dont I go and live there? I have. Were you talking to me....?

[yaofeng]

We used to say working in local government or even some engineering companies was a job for life. That all finished in the 70s. I could see 60 odd textile mills from a hill when I was a kid. They are all closed. There are more people employed in Indian restaurants in the UK than in the steel and coal industries combined. I blame my generation for letting governments get away with it. We should have known better. And I think anyone who cant be bothered to vote should be taken out and shot

This is hardly a political forum but your argument has many flaws. If you like the steel mills and textile mills protected the government has to stop importing them. Simply because the protected idustries will not be able to compete against imports produced by dirty cheap labor from overseas. The implication of this is you may enjoy a high paying job which produce low value products. Your cost of living will be also very high. You may still want that. Many people won't.

In a free market, what you want is to be able to make something only you can make so you name the price. If that is not possible you want to make the product better and faster than everyone else so you still have the edge. If neither is possible and when people with the same skills half way around the world are being paid one tenth of your salary something is bound to change. Meaning you job and skills have become obsolete. This is something protection can not alter. If your company or society refuses to recognize it, other companies and/or societies will take advantage of the cheaper labor to put lower cost products on the market so your job is eliminated either way.

Is it harsh? Yes. The question is can you do things no one else can or can you do it faster and better than others.

[nizmainiac]

now jags and landrovers are going to be draped in crystal chanderliers and 20" spinners

[whiskychaser]

what about the problem with the concept of "a job for life" which has lead to young people being unable to find any work as employers are not willing to hire them? that is one of the things that troubles me the most about the French economy.
We used to say working in local government or even some engineering companies was a job for life. That all finished in the 70s. I could see 60 odd textile mills from a hill when I was a kid. They are all closed. There are more people employed in Indian restaurants in the UK than in the steel and coal industries combined. I blame my generation for letting governments get away with it. We should have known better. And I think anyone who cant be bothered to vote should be taken out and shot

[Ross]

Wo there! We Brits may not make the best cars in the world (thats for the Germans to do ;) ), but we do still have Aston Martin, TVR, Morgan and Noble on the go as far as I am aware... I know these are no match for Chrysler, Chevrolet and Ford however :p !

Last I heard AM was with Ford. I saw no mention of them in the Tata sale. Can you shed any light on that?
As for TVR, Morgan and Noble( I've had several giddy laps of Road America in one), great enthusiast cars but total production probably isn't up to what GM or Ford crash test. Noble is probably the only one who makes a dime.
Teasing aside, it sucks to see once great names kicked to the curb, regardless of how far the product has strayed from it's heritage.

[Blitzkrieg Bob]

Pre war Britian was the zenith for British cars.

Once the post war Socialists hit the unions and "British Layland" consolidated and ran the industry into the ground.

But on the bright side....I don't think anyone will miss Lucas Electric

[whiskychaser]

Pre war Britian was the zenith for British cars.

Once the post war Socialists hit the unions and "British Layland" consolidated and ran the industry into the ground.

But on the bright side....I don't think anyone will miss Lucas Electric
British Leyland was just BMC in another guise. They didnt invest: the 'A' series engine of the 1949 Morris Minor survived through the Mini up into the 70s. I lived in Birmingham in the 70s. BL used to ship unpainted shells across town in the rain!! Please dont blame the demise of the UK car industry on the unions-the days of 'Red Ken' and 'Red Robbo' were over 30 years ago.

[Blitzkrieg Bob]

over 30 years ago.

That's when the demise came about.

MG, Triumph, Mini Cooper disappeared.

Jag was putting out some pretty mediocre cars into the late 70's into the 80's

Rover was a pale shadow of the "old defender"

[AngryPopTart]

I don't see any bodacious tatas in this thread. :(

[GJPinAU]

If you buy a new Jag you can be "MildlySeasoned Popadom"

[repenttokyo]

Bob, MG, Triumph and Mini were all BMC/BLMC/British Leyland. If you want a laugh, have a look at a Morris Marina or Austin Princess. The first MGC out had an old Westiminster engine in it-it was so nose heavy it steered like a tea trolley. By comparison, Alfa were making the Spyder in the 60s. We simply didnt invest in design or commit resources and I dont think there was the political will to save the industry. I think its time I got off my soap box and shut up


actually i find your opinions really interesting, i don't know a lot about british labour and this gives good insight.

[whiskychaser]

That's when the demise came about.

MG, Triumph, Mini Cooper disappeared.

Jag was putting out some pretty mediocre cars into the late 70's into the 80's

Rover was a pale shadow of the "old defender"
Bob, MG, Triumph and Mini were all BMC/BLMC/British Leyland. If you want a laugh, have a look at a Morris Marina or Austin Princess. The first MGC out had an old Westiminster engine in it-it was so nose heavy it steered like a tea trolley. By comparison, Alfa were making the Spyder in the 60s. We simply didnt invest in design or commit resources and I dont think there was the political will to save the industry. I think its time I got off my soap box and shut up

[nizmainiac]

Last I heard AM was with Ford. I saw no mention of them in the Tata sale. Can you shed any light on that?
As for TVR, Morgan and Noble( I've had several giddy laps of Road America in one), great enthusiast cars but total production probably isn't up to what GM or Ford crash test. Noble is probably the only one who makes a dime.
Teasing aside, it sucks to see once great names kicked to the curb, regardless of how far the product has strayed from it's heritage.
aston martin was bought by a group headed by david richards the owner of prodrive and the subaru wrt amongst other things

[whiskychaser]

actually i find your opinions really interesting, i don't know a lot about british labour and this gives good insight.
Thats very generous of you. I come from a working class background, had what you might call a 'college education' and have spent most of my life in management. Its pretty clear to me where the blame for the loss of our industries lies. The great tragedy is the loss of the skills that went with those industries. We will never get them back. A couple of years ago I delivered some german steel to Consett and I felt like a traitor. I said something about a soapbox before....

[fin]

The British Leyland demise was a thing of beauty.

As Triumph, Sunbeam, etc. went under, the cream of the management crop were swept up into BL.

Once there, they undermined there old rival MG, killing a formerly fine car line and putting themselves out of jobs.

The ability of smart men to make stupid decisions never ceases to amaze me.

I think the Lucas (Prince of Darkness) debacle is a result of the British auto industry being unwilling to specify a better product. Or maybe being unwilling to pay for such a product. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to make the fine aerospace avionics installed in the finest of bizz jets.

Oh, and Jag and LR being sold to an Indian company probably isn't going to go down well at the King's Head Pub. They'll need to get use to it.

Cheers,

Ned

[Ross]

In enthusuiast hands, that is good news, provided he's properly capitalized.

[healtoeit]

My condolences to the Brits. Upon hearing the news of Jaguar and Land Rover now being in the hands of tractor and throw away car builder Tata I wanted to barf.
You do know that Lamborghini started out making Tractors? THis could be good for them in the long run lol

[repenttokyo]

I worked for BL in the early seventies at a US parts depot.
When the depot closed thousands and thousands of now priceless old Jag, MG etc. parts went in the bin. Probably enough at today's prices to bail them out now.
I remember "bowling" with N.O.S. wire Jag wheels into a dumpster.


chrysler did the same thing. liquidated their parts division in the 80's. That's why all mopar stuff before a certain year is repro.

[Ross]

Yes, well aware of it and the legend behind his motivation to build cars.
I think it would be sad to see Jag go the way of Lambo as well, unless you want your XJ in Easter egg colors.

[healtoeit]

Yes, well aware of it and the legend behind his motivation to build cars.
I think it would be sad to see Jag go the way of Lambo as well, unless you want your XJ in Easter egg colors.

I want to place a sound bit from my cell phone of a Mura engine on a dyno! Do you know how to do that?

If jag could make a car like a mura that would rock!

[Ross]

I worked for BL in the early seventies at a US parts depot.
When the depot closed thousands and thousands of now priceless old Jag, MG etc. parts went in the bin. Probably enough at today's prices to bail them out now.
I remember "bowling" with N.O.S. wire Jag wheels into a dumpster.

[Booster]

Its always a bit nervy for me when I see a car manufacturer going into new hands. We've all witnessed it many times these days and although it might raise the technology within a larger developer..such as Ford and Jag/ROver....the design elements that often romanced most of us to some degree....always get lost in translation to some extent, just to be totally drained in a second venture....like this one with Tata.:(
I am not a racist ....but I truly don't like losing our Universes cultures one at a time via take-overs.I enjoy the diversity and all that it has brought forth over the years.:)
I don't want all cars to be regurgitated like the end result of Kia or Hyundai has been doing.
Oh..look at that er,uh...dis......what the hell is that anyway ??:p
Cheers,Vinny